For dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return

[bro.tan]

Death and resurrection, spiritually and physically. What does this statement mean? There are a few things we must find out. Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.


Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.


Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.


Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

 

[bro.tan]

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave. Why does he continue to say "under the sun"? He's said it twice. We will find out a little later.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.

If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.

Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath. David clarifies this even further in the 88th Psalm.

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

What did he call the grave? The land of forgetfulness. So far the Bible is consistent.

 

[rwb]

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

You had my attention, and mostly agreement until this! You've given a sound accounting for what becomes of man's flesh & bones after death. There is no more hope for obtaining eternal spiritual life through Christ after our body breathes its last. Our body then is a mere corpse in silence and darkness where it will remain until an hour that is coming when all who are in the graves shall be resurrected to life or damnation, depending on whether in life they have done good or evil.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Our bodies will not be awakened in the hour coming to a "first resurrection" to live and reign on the earth with Christ and all the saints. We must partake of the first resurrection before we die if we are to overcome the second death that is the lake of fire. Christ says that will be during the 'hour' that now is when the dead shall hear His voice, and those who hear shall live.

John 5:24-25 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

How are the dead to hear His word in the hour that now is? What does Christ mean? How would the physically dead be able to hear His voice to live? Certainly, Christ cannot be speaking of those who are physically dead being able to hear His word for everlasting life. You've already proven those who have physically died are without hope and know nothing but are in darkness and silence in the grave. Who are the dead, yet alive who shall hear the voice of the Son of God to live? How are they now dead, and yet still able to hear His voice? They are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. IOW they have not the Holy Spirit of Christ to make them alive spiritually. While living in bodies of flesh & bones without Christ we are spiritually dead and cannot know the things of the Spirit, because those things must be spiritually discerned. We are as dead men walking without the Spirit of Christ in us when we hear His Word and we are born again.

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:4-6 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

It is in this life, during our physical lives on this earth that we must be made spiritually alive to be raised up together with Christ in the heavenly realm. By being IN Christ Jesus we have been made spiritually alive through Him. This spiritual awakening from death to life comes when we spiritually partake of the life, death and resurrection of Christ. For He is the "first resurrection" of the dead who shall never die again. When we spiritually partake of Christ during our lives, we have partaken of the first resurrection and are assured the second death will have no power over us.

The first resurrection is eternal life we obtain through our spirit. It is now in this life that we, with spiritual life through His Spirit in us live and reign with Christ. Then when the last/seventh trumpet sounds this time shall be no longer, those who have partaken of the resurrection life of Christ during this age of time shall be physically resurrected to life on the new earth and those who have done evil resurrected to damnation when they stand before the great white throne to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[bro.tan]

You had my attention, and mostly agreement until this! You've given a sound accounting for what becomes of man's flesh & bones after death. There is no more hope for obtaining eternal spiritual life through Christ after our body breathes its last. Our body then is a mere corpse in silence and darkness where it will remain until an hour that is coming when all who are in the graves shall be resurrected to life or damnation, depending on whether in life they have done good or evil.

I agree, but I haven't gotten to the first resurrection yet, I'm still dealing with dead according to the Bible.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Our bodies will not be awakened in the hour coming to a "first resurrection" to live and reign on the earth with Christ and all the saints. We must partake of the first resurrection before we die if we are to overcome the second death that is the lake of fire. Christ says that will be during the 'hour' that now is when the dead shall hear His voice, and those who hear shall live.

I disagree, we are not going to be part of the first resurrection until the last trump, which is the seventh trump, which will be at the second coming of Jesus. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

John 5:24-25 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

How are the dead to hear His word in the hour that now is? What does Christ mean? How would the physically dead be able to hear His voice to live? Certainly, Christ cannot be speaking of those who are physically dead being able to hear His word for everlasting life. You've already proven those who have physically died are without hope and know nothing but are in darkness and silence in the grave. Who are the dead, yet alive who shall hear the voice of the Son of God to live? How are they now dead, and yet still able to hear His voice? They are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. IOW they have not the Holy Spirit of Christ to make them alive spiritually. While living in bodies of flesh & bones without Christ we are spiritually dead and cannot know the things of the Spirit, because those things must be spiritually discerned. We are as dead men walking without the Spirit of Christ in us when we hear His Word and we are born again.

Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:4-6 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

It is in this life, during our physical lives on this earth that we must be made spiritually alive to be raised up together with Christ in the heavenly realm. By being IN Christ Jesus we have been made spiritually alive through Him. This spiritual awakening from death to life comes when we spiritually partake of the life, death and resurrection of Christ. For He is the "first resurrection" of the dead who shall never die again. When we spiritually partake of Christ during our lives, we have partaken of the first resurrection and are assured the second death will have no power over us.

The first resurrection is eternal life we obtain through our spirit. It is now in this life that we, with spiritual life through His Spirit in us live and reign with Christ. Then when the last/seventh trumpet sounds this time shall be no longer, those who have partaken of the resurrection life of Christ during this age of time shall be physically resurrected to life on the new earth and those who have done evil resurrected to damnation when they stand before the great white throne to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[bro.tan]

continuing the lesson......Let's check out a few more Psalm.

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent.

Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject. Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

 

[rwb]

I disagree, we are not going to be part of the first resurrection until the last trump, which is the seventh trump, which will be at the second coming of Jesus.

Since you disagree about when and how we partake of the first resurrection in life, would you mind giving me your understanding of the words of Christ from Jo 5:24-29?

You seem to understand the bodily resurrection that shall come in an hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer, but you appear to believe there shall be two physical or bodily resurrections separated by one thousand literal years of more time. How do you justify two separate physical resurrections since Christ speaks only of one resurrection from the graves that shall come and ALL (both good & evil) who are in the graves shall be resurrected, and those who have done good to life, while those who have done evil to damnation.

 

[rwb]

continuing the lesson......Let's check out a few more Psalm.

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent.

Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject. Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

How do you distinguish between the dead, and the living? What does Christ mean when He says, "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die"?

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Every human is destined to physical death, but only those who die without Christ go to the grave in silence and darkness, with no hope of praising the Lord. It is the DEAD spiritually who physically die in unbelief who shall never give the Lord thanks or praise, and shall forever be in silence and darkness, and without hope.

Since every human is destined to physically die, how can Christ give us such great comfort of knowing that when we live and believe in Him we shall never die?

 

[bro.tan]

How do you distinguish between the dead, and the living? What does Christ mean when He says, "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die"?

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Every human is destined to physical death, but only those who die without Christ go to the grave in silence and darkness, with no hope of praising the Lord. It is the DEAD spiritually who physically die in unbelief who shall never give the Lord thanks or praise, and shall forever be in silence and darkness, and without hope.

Since every human is destined to physically die, how can Christ give us such great comfort of knowing that when we live and believe in Him we shall never die?

In the beginning Adam and Eve wasn't suppose to die, but the book says Adam sin. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12). So this is now and interruption in life, but you when die in Christ, Jesus call it sleep. Jesus gave us example of how we would be raise out of our sleep. Let's go in to John 11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

Let's take a look what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. But if we go further, we will see that the lake of fire will have people living and burning for ever. This is the second death. Jesus says in Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: So you have to be living for ever even in the fire.

 

[bro.tan]

Since you disagree about when and how we partake of the first resurrection in life, would you mind giving me your understanding of the words of Christ from Jo 5:24-29?

You seem to understand the bodily resurrection that shall come in an hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer, but you appear to believe there shall be two physical or bodily resurrections separated by one thousand literal years of more time. How do you justify two separate physical resurrections since Christ speaks only of one resurrection from the graves that shall come and ALL (both good & evil) who are in the graves shall be resurrected, and those who have done good to life, while those who have done evil to damnation.

Let's go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So the book says the rest of the dead live not again until a thousand yrs. So let's take a look at the second resurrection. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20: 11-15)

So those who come up in the first resurrection will not have to deal with the Judgement, which is the second death.

 

[rwb]

Let's go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So the book says the rest of the dead live not again until a thousand yrs. So let's take a look at the second resurrection. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20: 11-15)

So those who come up in the first resurrection will not have to deal with the Judgement, which is the second death.

Yes, I don't think we have disagreement about the bodily resurrection that shall come when the last trump sounds. Notice I did not say "second" resurrection, because Scripture says there is a "first resurrection" that one must have part in to overcome the second death. And then there shall be the bodily resurrection of ALL who are in the graves in an hour coming when the last trump sounds. The bodily resurrection that shall come is of ALL (both believers & unbelievers) who have physically died. Those who have done good shall be bodily resurrected to life, and those who have done evil shall be resurrected to damnation.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those who are resurrected from the graves in the hour coming who have done good will be bodily resurrected to immortality and incorruption. Those who have done evil resurrected to damnation, will be "the DEAD" who must stand before the Judgment Throne of God to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In this passage Paul tells the faithful saints that our bodies will be resurrected and changed at the last trump. This is the resurrection we have no disagreement concerning. Those who are alive when the last trump sounds aren't resurrected from the graves, but they too shall be changed from mortal to immortal & corruptible to incorruptible when the last trump sounds.

There shall also be a specific order for all of the faithful saints, both those still living when Christ comes again, and those who have done good, who are bodily resurrected from the graves shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (rapture). First comes the bodily resurrection of those who have died in Christ. Their spirits return with Christ from heaven, giving them life again, then they shall be raised immortal & incorruptible to meet the Lord in the air at His coming again. Then all who are still physically alive at His coming will also be changed to immortal & incorruptible, and together with the resurrected dead they shall all meet the Lord in the air and shall ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I know you want to turn this into two resurrections separated by one thousand years of time, but you cannot separate the one and only bodily resurrection that shall be for every human body that died and shall die before the second coming of Christ. There is only ONE physical bodily resurrection of ALL the dead from the graves in the hour coming when the last trump sounds and Christ comes again.

Trying to keep this less overwhelming for the reader, I will continue in the following thread. I will explain how I have come to understand the "first resurrection" that mankind MUST partake of to overcome the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[rwb]

Let's go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So the book says the rest of the dead live not again until a thousand yrs. So let's take a look at the second resurrection. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20: 11-15)

So those who come up in the first resurrection will not have to deal with the Judgement, which is the second death.

Let's look at Rev 20 from another perspective.

Revelation 20:4-5 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those martyred souls are in heaven after they were physically killed during their lifetime. They were faithful unto death according to John because in life they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." How could they "have lived/reigned" a thousand years with Christ since no man has ever lived for a thousand years? This time recorded "a thousand years" cannot be literally one thousand years.

This time reckoned a thousand years is not literal but symbolizes time given for proclaiming the Gospel unto all the nations of the world so the Kingdom of God could be complete as people hear the Gospel and by grace through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit men/women are eternally saved. That a thousand years symbolizes time for building the Kingdom of God can be proven by looking at vs 6 before we look at vs 5 and the rest of the dead.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse 4 tells us that these martyred souls in heaven are there because in life the LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ, and were faithful unto death. So as Christ promised when the saints are faithful unto death they receive a crown of life. The saints received the crown of life after physical death, just as Christ said the faithful would.

Revelation 2:10 (KJV) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Back to vs 6 to prove a thousand years cannot be literally one thousand years of more time after the second coming of Christ. John writes of those who "shall be" (future tense) priests of God and of Christ, and "shall reign" (future tense) a thousand years. A thousand years happens only once. How can the martyred souls of vs 4 have lived & reigned with Christ a thousand years, and those who shall be priests of God and of Christ who shall reign with Him a thousand years both be true, unless a thousand years symbolizes time for proclaiming the Gospel in the power of the Spirit? How can a thousand years be both time that is past and time in the future also? It cannot logically be. The only way to reconcile these two verses is to understand a thousand years symbolizes time between the first advent of Christ until the Kingdom of God is complete and the seventh/last trumpet sounds.

Not only shall the dead in the graves be resurrected when the last trumpet sounds, so too time given the Church for proclaiming the Gospel to all the earth shall also be no longer.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Now vs 5 and the rest of the dead. I believe the beginning of vs 5 "This is the first resurrection" belongs to vs 6, not the rest of the dead, but the blessed and holy who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death. After speaking of the faithful dead in Christ, martyred for their faith, John would not write the rest of the dead who are not with the living dead, or of those who shall live as blessed and holy, and call them "the rest of the dead" have part in the first resurrection. If that were true they would have been listed among the faithful dead in Christ, or among those who shall be called holy and blessed.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

This is IMO how vss 5-6 are to be understood. Otherwise there is no logic in John writing of the "DEAD" being blessed and holy.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In fact when we read of the "rest of the dead" again, John calls them merely "the dead" who are called to stand before the Judgment Throne of God to give account of their lives according to the things written in the books and the book of life. Time for living and reigning with Christ is this age, the age of the Gospel, the age of God's grace to all people who believe. During this time we shall either be found by God to be faithful to the end, and be made immortal and incorruptible. Or in this time we shall remain among the DEAD to be judged and cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

Last but not least I hope I have clearly shown whoever reads here that participation in the "first resurrection" must be during our lifetimes on this earth. We partake of the first resurrection through partaking of Christ, who is "the resurrection and the life." Christ tells us "Ye must be born again." Whoever is not born again of Christ's Spirit during our lives on this earth shall never know nor enter the Kingdom of God. They will forever be among "the dead" and without Christ, therefore without hope.

 

[bro.tan]

Let's look at Rev 20 from another perspective.

Revelation 20:4-5 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Those martyred souls are in heaven after they were physically killed during their lifetime. They were faithful unto death according to John because in life they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." How could they "have lived/reigned" a thousand years with Christ since no man has ever lived for a thousand years? This time recorded "a thousand years" cannot be literally one thousand years.

Yes it is literally, and they are not in heaven. You are linking the wrong verses together. Revelation 20: 4, 5 needs to be link with 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

This time reckoned a thousand years is not literal but symbolizes time given for proclaiming the Gospel unto all the nations of the world so the Kingdom of God could be complete as people hear the Gospel and by grace through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit men/women are eternally saved. That a thousand years symbolizes time for building the Kingdom of God can be proven by looking at vs 6 before we look at vs 5 and the rest of the dead.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Verse 4 tells us that these martyred souls in heaven are there because in life the LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ, and were faithful unto death. So as Christ promised when the saints are faithful unto death they receive a crown of life. The saints received the crown of life after physical death, just as Christ said the faithful would.

Revelation 2:10 (KJV) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Back to vs 6 to prove a thousand years cannot be literally one thousand years of more time after the second coming of Christ. John writes of those who "shall be" (future tense) priests of God and of Christ, and "shall reign" (future tense) a thousand years. A thousand years happens only once. How can the martyred souls of vs 4 have lived & reigned with Christ a thousand years, and those who shall be priests of God and of Christ who shall reign with Him a thousand years both be true, unless a thousand years symbolizes time for proclaiming the Gospel in the power of the Spirit? How can a thousand years be both time that is past and time in the future also? It cannot logically be. The only way to reconcile these two verses is to understand a thousand years symbolizes time between the first advent of Christ until the Kingdom of God is complete and the seventh/last trumpet sounds.

Not only shall the dead in the graves be resurrected when the last trumpet sounds, so too time given the Church for proclaiming the Gospel to all the earth shall also be no longer.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Now vs 5 and the rest of the dead. I believe the beginning of vs 5 "This is the first resurrection" belongs to vs 6, not the rest of the dead, but the blessed and holy who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death. After speaking of the faithful dead in Christ, martyred for their faith, John would not write the rest of the dead who are not with the living dead, or of those who shall live as blessed and holy, and call them "the rest of the dead" have part in the first resurrection. If that were true they would have been listed among the faithful dead in Christ, or among those who shall be called holy and blessed.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

This is IMO how vss 5-6 are to be understood. Otherwise there is no logic in John writing of the "DEAD" being blessed and holy.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In fact when we read of the "rest of the dead" again, John calls them merely "the dead" who are called to stand before the Judgment Throne of God to give account of their lives according to the things written in the books and the book of life. Time for living and reigning with Christ is this age, the age of the Gospel, the age of God's grace to all people who believe. During this time we shall either be found by God to be faithful to the end, and be made immortal and incorruptible. Or in this time we shall remain among the DEAD to be judged and cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[bro.tan]

Yes, I don't think we have disagreement about the bodily resurrection that shall come when the last trump sounds. Notice I did not say "second" resurrection, because Scripture says there is a "first resurrection" that one must have part in to overcome the second death. And then there shall be the bodily resurrection of ALL who are in the graves in an hour coming when the last trump sounds. The bodily resurrection that shall come is of ALL (both believers & unbelievers) who have physically died. Those who have done good shall be bodily resurrected to life, and those who have done evil shall be resurrected to damnation.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those who are resurrected from the graves in the hour coming who have done good will be bodily resurrected to immortality and incorruption. Those who have done evil resurrected to damnation, will be "the DEAD" who must stand before the Judgment Throne of God to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In this passage Paul tells the faithful saints that our bodies will be resurrected and changed at the last trump. This is the resurrection we have no disagreement concerning. Those who are alive when the last trump sounds aren't resurrected from the graves, but they too shall be changed from mortal to immortal & corruptible to incorruptible when the last trump sounds.

There shall also be a specific order for all of the faithful saints, both those still living when Christ comes again, and those who have done good, who are bodily resurrected from the graves shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (rapture). First comes the bodily resurrection of those who have died in Christ. Their spirits return with Christ from heaven, giving them life again, then they shall be raised immortal & incorruptible to meet the Lord in the air at His coming again. Then all who are still physically alive at His coming will also be changed to immortal & incorruptible, and together with the resurrected dead they shall all meet the Lord in the air and shall ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I know you want to turn this into two resurrections separated by one thousand years of time, but you cannot separate the one and only bodily resurrection that shall be for every human body that died and shall die before the second coming of Christ. There is only ONE physical bodily resurrection of ALL the dead from the graves in the hour coming when the last trump sounds and Christ comes again.

Yes I can because after a thousand years the books in Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

But understand Jesus been the earth for thousand years already, with his saints. Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Trying to keep this less overwhelming for the reader, I will continue in the following thread. I will explain how I have come to understand the "first resurrection" that mankind MUST partake of to overcome the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[rwb]

Yes it is literally, and they are not in heaven. You are linking the wrong verses together. Revelation 20: 4, 5 needs to be link with 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Jesus brings them (living spirit/soul) with Him from heaven. Where the spirits of just men dwell after their body becomes a corpse.

Hebrews 12:22-23 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Yes, they are living spirit souls in heaven after being martyred on earth. They are not bodily resurrected, none are, until the last trump sounds at the end of time. They died in faith while living and reigning with Christ in TIME (symbolized a thousand years). Not throughout time, but in or during this time likened to a thousand years. Since they were faithful unto death, they ascended to heaven spiritually alive (living souls) to wait for the sounding of the last trumpet.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

When you sleep in Jesus it means you have physically died in faith!

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

This is not depicting the first resurrection. It is a depiction of what shall come to pass when the last trumpet sounds and the dead are resurrected and those who died in Christ made immortal & incorruptible, and the saints who are still alive will be raised up and changed with them to meet the Lord in the air. We meet the Lord in the air at His return so that we will not be on this earth as the fire of God comes down to destroy all that is left alive upon this earth.

 

[rwb]

Yes I can because after a thousand years the books in Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

But understand Jesus been the earth for thousand years already, with his saints. Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Sorry, but I don't really follow what you are trying to say here. It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[bro.tan]

Jesus brings them (living spirit/soul) with Him from heaven. Where the spirits of just men dwell after their body becomes a corpse.

Hebrews 12:22-23 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Yes, they are living spirit souls in heaven after being martyred on earth. They are not bodily resurrected, none are, until the last trump sounds at the end of time. They died in faith while living and reigning with Christ in TIME (symbolized a thousand years). Not throughout time, but in or during this time likened to a thousand years. Since they were faithful unto death, they ascended to heaven spiritually alive (living souls) to wait for the sounding of the last trumpet.



When you sleep in Jesus it means you have physically died in faith!



This is not depicting the first resurrection. It is a depiction of what shall come to pass when the last trumpet sounds and the dead are resurrected and those who died in Christ made immortal & incorruptible, and the saints who are still alive will be raised up and changed with them to meet the Lord in the air. We meet the Lord in the air at His return so that we will not be on this earth as the fire of God comes down to destroy all that is left alive upon this earth.

This is the first resurrection, that whole event is the first resurrection at the seventh trump. Let's take a look what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Don't you see, first fruits, first resurrection!

 

[bro.tan]

Back to the lesson....Let's check out a few more Psalm. Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent.

Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.

Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.

Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!


Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent. We move to the book of Revelation.

This set of verses may sound contradictory, and if they are, we might as well throw the Bible out the back door. So far we have found out that the dead are still in the grave, they have no thoughts, no wisdom and knowledge. We also found that the heavens will be no more. Pay very close attention to John, he's letting you know something very important. Once you understand what he is saying there is no contradiction.

 

[bro.tan]

Now, let us go into Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Look at what John said, "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God. These people must be in heaven, right? (Next verse)

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

They were talking to the Lord. (Next verse)

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These people were told by the Lord, rest a little season. They must be in heaven? (Next)

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Notice something, The sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together. This is the same thing David, Paul, and now John said. This must be true. What about the souls under the altar?

 

[rwb]

This is the first resurrection, that whole event is the first resurrection at the seventh trump. Let's take a look what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Don't you see, first fruits, first resurrection!

This cannot be the first resurrection of the dead physically. Because there shall be only one resurrection of the dead, when all the dead in the graves shall be resurrected physically to life or damnation. This in the hour coming, when the last trump sounds. Nowhere in Scripture do we read of physical resurrection for the physically dead being resurrected twice, separated by one thousand years. Those referenced as "the dead" are those who never during their physical lives are born again of the Spirit. The physically dead who are resurrected physically to life are those who physically died indwelt with the Holy Spirit from Christ. Though their bodies die, they are still alive.

Christ is the firstfruits of them that slept. Christ is NOT the firstfruits of them physically, but to them that had died before Christ came, before He atoned for sin, and defeated death. They had died in Christ, in faith, and waited in death until, like Lazarus, Christ would come and raise them from the dead. But unlike Lazarus, they are not raised physically, but as spiritual bodies. They became the body of Christ in heaven, through spiritual life, not physical life. That would not happen until this time symbolized a thousand years has ended. Lazarus and all the Old Covenant faithful saints spirits returned to God in heaven after they died. (Ecc 12:7)

Since they did not have the Holy Spirit in them, (Christ would not send Him before defeating death) to give them spiritual life they waited in death as heavenly/celestial/spiritual beings until Christ came, died, resurrected, and ascended to the Father. Before the spirit of Christ ascended to heaven, Christ first descended into the lower parts of the earth. I believe this place was the resting place of faithful saints who died before Christ came, and it was called "Abraham's bosom." It was the place the spirits of these just men/women of faith waited for the promised Messiah who would come to come and redeem them from the grave.

When He died Christ's spirit returned to His Father in heaven, and at that time by His Spirit Christ took the spirits of faithful saints with Him to heaven, and now together they are the spiritual body of Christ in heaven and are as the angels of God who are spirit beings. Our spirits with Christ will return with Him when He comes the second and only time and our bodies will be resurrected to life again through our spirit, only then immortal and incorruptible to never die again. Then we shall be fit to reside with Christ forever on the new earth.

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Christ was the firstfruits of the faithful dead. And He was the first resurrection from physical death that we must all partake of to overcome the second death. First in life we have part in the first resurrection, through the resurrection life of Christ. Then after physical death we shall have part in resurrection life and not be condemned with the unbelievers.