"For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet"
- Thread starter Patrick1966
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I don't believe that well-intentioned followers of Christ get sent to the LOF for having an honest misunderstanding of doctrine.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,132
- 3,817
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Your claim is false, receiving pentecostalism's early & latter rains plays no part in salvation
Confess and Believe as seen below, it's that simple
Romans 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,132
- 3,817
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
You have stated all will be saved in the end, and you have stated even Satan and the fallen angels will be restored to perfection, correct me if I'm wrong?
Do you believe that EVERY "tongue" will confess that Jesus is lord? And, according to the verse that you just provided, what happens to those who confess that Jesus is lord?
Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I didn't state it, God did.
Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
The verse refers to Isaiah 66:1 "Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool." Which is to be understood as: "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7 In other words, until all in the flesh are dead.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 12,132
- 3,817
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
The believers will inhabit the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, where they will be in eternal tangible bodies of flesh and bone, just as Jesus maintained after the resurrection
The tree and river of life will be present, fish, fishing nets, houses built, vineyards planted, animals living in harmony as was the garden of eden
Jesus Is The Lord
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
As usual, context is key. See below.
The direct reference appears to be the spiritual realm, not humankind.
Verse 26 says: "The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:22-26 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
I'm sorry. I'm slow. Does that mean that all are saved and with Jesus at that point?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Yes.
At verse 23 all of humankind should be saved/corrected/restored/redeemed.
Verses 24-26 deals with the spiritual enemies to be "conquered"/corrected/restored/redeemed.
1 Corinthians 15:22-26 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Last edited:
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Dear Patrick1966,
The apostate church is full of well-intentioned people but most of them will not be saved in this age. They have a zeal for God but it is not based on knowledge:
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness (works), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God (faith).
Those in the apostate church are spiritually blind. They have been deceived by Satan and are following his way of "works" instead of the way of faith. Salvation only comes by faith in Christ. Those in the apostate church mix their own works with faith. Scripture calls this way of "works" the crooked way:
Lam 3:9 He hath enclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.
The spiritual symbol "hewn stone" represents the works of man (the Old Covenant of Law). It is the crooked way. The straight way is by faith in Christ and trust Him to do all the "works". For that reason, the pathway to salvation must be made "straight" for those who are following the crooked way of the "crooked" serpent.
To make the pathway straight for the unconverted Elect, Christ will send a converted believer to them in the spirit of Elijah to cause them to repent from their works so as to make the pathway straight for Christ to come to them with the Latter Rain.
For the Jewish Elect, Christ sent John the Baptist to them. Those who repented of their works and never turned back were those who were chosen by Him:
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Good intentions will not save anyone. They must repent from their works so that Christ will "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain. With the Latter Rain, the believer is "born again" and is saved. Then from their new ability to "see", the truth they receive from Christ will bring judgment to the Man of Sin and the Great Harlot within them. After they are destroyed, the believer will be converted. This all happens by the works of Christ within each believer.
Here is the summarized step by step pathway all the Elect will travel to obtain their salvation:
- The receiving of the Early Rain of the Spirit and entering the church.
- The coming of the spirit of anti-Christ to the believer and consuming of leavened bread.
- Falling away, the Abomination of Desolation and becoming a Man of Sin.
- Hearing and answering the call of Elijah so that the pathway for Christ is made straight.
- The Second Coming of Christ when He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.
- Spiritual blindness healed.
- Marriage Supper when the believer consumes milk, bread, meat and New Wine.
- Christ appears and gathers the believer to dwell with Him in heaven (spiritually speaking).
- Judgment of the Day of the Lord.
- Conversion.
- The time of testing.
- The bodily resurrection at the end of the age.
You must remember that mankind was created spiritually marred and as a result, we all quickly become carnally minded at birth. In that condition, no one can understand or know God. We won't even have a desire to seek Him:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It is mankind's carnality that spiritually blinds us from knowing and understanding God. Since all mankind is carnal, all mankind must be spiritually destroyed by the judgment of Christ. But before we are destroyed, Christ will give us the Holy Spirit which will give us a new birth as a child of God. Then after our carnality is destroyed by judgment, we will be converted. Our conversion can only happen by the spiritual work of Christ within a person. If He does not do this work within a person, they will remain carnal, sinful and lost until they die.
In this age, "many" are called out from the world. At that time, they will receive the Early Rain (earnest amount of the Spirit) and will enter the church. However, the Early Rain is not given in enough measure to destroy the carnality of the believer. It cannot convert them. Because the believer's carnality remains, the believer will be left spiritually blind and unable to know or understand God. Satan will take advantage of this situation and deceive the believer into following his crooked way instead of the straight way of Christ. Satan deceives the believer via the spirit of anti-Christ. When Satan's deception runs its course, the believer will fall away from faith and lose their salvation. They will remain in that lost spiritual condition until Christ comes to them a second time (the second coming of Christ) and pours out the remaining balance of the Spirit upon them. This salvation event is called the baptism of the Spirit or the Latter Rain. However, in this age, Christ will only come a second time to those who have been "chosen" from this group of "many". They are considered blessed and are called the Elect of Christ. They are His First Fruits of His harvest of mankind.
This verse applies:
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
The many who are called but NOT chosen will physically die in the apostate church. Most have good intentions because they each received a measure of faith when they received the Early Rain. But like the Early Rain, it is not given in enough measure to keep them from turning to works for salvation.
The Nation of Israel "typed" this truth which I have explained above. The whole nation of Israel was called out from the world (typed by Egypt) and were baptized in the Rea Sea (type of the Early Rain). When the nation arrived on the border of the Promised Land (salvation), they sent out 12 men to spy out the land. From the twelve, only two men, Joshua and Caleb, trusted in God to secure their victory over the "giants in the land" (strongholds of our carnal mind). This is the "good report" which is based on faith. The other ten spies were afraid because they were only trusting in their own abilities (works) to defeat the giants. This was the "bad report". When the congregation was gathered, they too, were afraid and believed the bad report. As a result of their lack of faith, the nation "fell away" and wandered in the wilderness (place where Satan dwells) for 40 years. Only Joshua and Caleb lived through those 40 years to cross the Jordan River (types the Latter Rain) and enter the Promised Land. They represent the Elect; the First Fruits of the harvest.
It sounds like you are still operating under a "works" based belief system. You must cast this belief system away and trust only in Christ to do all the work necessary for your salvation. He will lead you through it all and defeat the "giants" for you.
Can you hear Elijah's call of repentance from works?
Joe
Last edited:
Dear Truth7t7,
You are wrong according to God's Word. Please read my post above to Patrick1966. It teaches the pathway to Salvation.
Also, pentecostialism does not teach this pathway. They are spiritually blind and apostate like all the other churches in the world.
Joe
Dear Patrick1966,
Since you say you don't have a works based belief system, then where is your disagreement with me?
It was my understanding from your post that you believe "good intentions" will save some in the apostate church regardless of whether or not they repent of their works (the truth they have not received). Repentance from works is the key to salvation by faith. Only the fallen away believers who are chosen will be given the ability to respond to Elijah's call of repentance so that Christ's pathway to them is made straight.
Joe
Jesus was asked which of the laws are most important. Jesus said to love God and to love one another. A person that believes in and loves Jesus and loves everyone else is golden, apparently. They don't have to do anything. Jesus' grace is upon them.
Am I missing something?
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Yes, when Jesus has conquered all enemies, including death, he hands the Kingdom back to his God and Father: 1 Cor 15:25-28
Dear Patrick1966,
Yes, you are missing the most important truth in scripture as it relates to our salvation.
Trying to follow the Law cannot save a person. The Law was given to the Nation of Israel to prove this point.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Peter said this about those who try to follow the Law:
2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pet 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning (worse than the first, Mat 12:43-45). 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness (faith), than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit (works) again; and the sow that was washed (in the blood of Christ) to her wallowing in the mire (works).
Paul said that when a believer tries to follow the Law to make themselves acceptable to Christ, even on just one point like circumcision, they will fall from grace.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Mankind is carnally minded and will always come up short in trying to follow the Law. If a believer thinks that their "works" (even just one) are necessary for salvation, they will become a debtor to keeping the whole Law. For that reason, the apostate church, who mixes the crooked way of Satan (works) with Christ's straight way of faith, will be judged by the Law upon their resurrection. They have fallen from grace and have come under the Law again.
When a believer realizes that the Law cannot save them, it will lead them to Christ and the New Covenant.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Under the New Covenant, we "rest" (what the Sabbath Day "typed") from our works because Christ will do all the works necessary for our salvation.
When I said that it seems that you have a "works" based belief system, it is comments like the one in your post that causes me to suspect it.
The most common act that causes a believer to fall from grace occurs when they accept the doctrine of Free Will. The doctrine of Free Will is the foundational belief for "works". With this "works" mindset, the believer will justify why they are saved and why others are not. Because of their belief in free will, they believe that they are smarter, wiser or just less evil than those who reject Christ. For this reason, they believe that those who reject Christ are worthy of Hell and why they are not - though they absolutely will not admit it, they DO have something to boast about concerning their salvation based upon their belief in free will.
The only way for a person to follow the Law is AFTER they have been saved, converted and matured into Christ. Then Christ "within" us will follow the Law of loving God and our neighbor perfectly.
To accomplish our conversion, mankind's marred spiritual nature must be destroyed and replaced with the Holy Spirit which will give us a new and perfect spiritual nature. That nature is powerful and holy. It cannot sin, whereas the marred spiritual nature we have now is weak and sinful. Mankind MUST be converted to be saved. The key that unlocks that door to salvation is faith. And that "faith" is given to us by Christ. Mankind has no faith of their own which will draw them to Christ. A measure of faith is given to us when we receive the Early Rain. That faith is later increased by Christ when He is ready for us to respond to the call of Elijah and repent of our works. Our repentance is key for making the pathway straight for Christ to "come again" and give us the Latter Rain.
Peter said this shortly after He was converted on the Day of Pentecost:
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
The pathway for a fallen away Elect believer in the apostate church requires them to respond to the call of Elijah and repent of their "works". From there, they must wait for the Lord to come with the Latter Rain.
Paul said this:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Those "who are waiting for him" are Elect believers who have repented of their "works" and are waiting for the second coming of Christ when He will pour out the Latter Rain.
The Apostles were shown to have "waited" in the upper room to "type" this truth.
With the Latter Rain, a believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and the truth of scripture will open up to them. Christ will then "appear" to them from scripture and will subsequently gather them to dwell in heaven with Him (Mat 29-31, 2Thes 2:1). This is a spiritual gathering and is not the bodily resurrection from the grave which will occur at the end of the age.
Here are some symbols which represent our spiritual condition:
Sea: represents unbelievers
Earth: represents called out believers who are not converted. They remain carnal.
Heaven: represents converted Elect believers because they have been made into a new creation and are no longer part of mankind.
More on the spiritual language of Christ: God's Word teaches its truth in Christ's spiritual language to keep His truth veiled from everyone but those who have been given "eyes that can see" (given with the Latter Rain). In this language, Christ uses "types" and spiritual symbols to teach His truth. The symbols carry meanings which are "not taught by man's wisdom" (1Cor 2:13).
To understand the symbols, a believer must have the full payment of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) to guide them into all understanding. With "eyes that can see", the believer must look to scripture and scripture ONLY to understand these symbols. Paul says to compare spiritual things (words) with spiritual. In other words, we must locate the symbols where they are used elsewhere in scripture so that we can ascertain their meanings.
Here is an easy example:
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
The word "sword" is a spiritual symbol. In Christ's spiritual language, it is NOT a steel bladed weapon. It is the Word of God who is Christ.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
When Christ said that those who take up the sword, must perish by the sword, He is teaching on conversion. A person takes up the sword when they receive the Early Rain. When they receive the Latter Rain, they (their carnal spiritual nature) will perish.
Please reconsider your understanding of how a person is saved. I suggest you make the prayer mentioned in Luke 9-13.
I say all these things in the love of Christ,
Joe
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
