For what reason was Jesus to be called the Son of God?

[Brakelite]

When Jesus said the following, who was it that shared the glory, other than the Father?
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ”
John 17:5 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Who was I, the one who was with the Father before creation?

 

[Wick Stick]

“The angel answered and said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.’”

(Luke 1:35, NASB)

Oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble with this answer. Oh well...

"Son of God" is originally a regnal title of the Canaanite and Amorites. When a new Canaanite king ascended to the throne of a city, they held an adoption ceremony where the new king was adopted as a son of El, one of their chief gods.

In Psalm 2, at the time that David ascends to the throne of Jerusalem (previously a Jebusite city), he observes their ceremony and is proclaimed a son of El/God. God proclaims "To day I have begotten you."

Luke's Acts of the Apostles ascribe these same words to Jesus. And, many scholars believe that, in the gospels, when Jesus is baptized by John, the voice from heaven originally spoke these same words in the Biblical text. But later scribes found this to be in conflict of the story of the Nativity, and so changed the text there, out of piety.

Essentially, "son of God" is a claim to KINGSHIP. But the scribes that came later felt it necessary to CHANGE some of the details of Scripture so that Jesus was not only an adopted Son of God, but a natural one as well. "Begotten not made," but it was not originally so...

 

[Aunty Jane]

I do not accept his pre-existence. His conception was the start of his life.

I see that Scripture argues with you…..

Colossians 1:15-17…
”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” (NASB)

In order for “all creation” to come into existence “through” the son, he had to exist before he was born as a human……all creation goes way back before the creation of the material universe. The sons of God were spoken of as applauding the finished project. (Job 38:4-7) They are part of “all creation”…the ”only begotten son” is God’s “firstborn”.

I consider that the Wise Woman "Wisdom" in Proverbs 8 and note it is "she", is a personification of God's wisdom and character.

Under the inspiration of God, the Proverbs of Solomon picture the heavenly Son of God as wisdom personified, and hence as talking about the creative work from the very beginning. Of course, in the Hebrew language the word “wisdom” is in the feminine gender, but when the Son of God used the word “wisdom” as meaning himself it did not mean that he was feminine or womanly. (This is a grammar issue, not a gender issue) He was merely referring to an outstanding quality that God had given him and he was using this as his name to show that this quality of God was active through him in the work of creation.

I consider the "us" and "our" of Genesis 1:26 is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man.

Nowhere does it say that angels participated in creation…..but Job 38: 4-7 discloses that they were spectators, intensely interested in material creation….and overjoyed at the completion of the project.
Only the son is said to have participated in creation. (John 1:2-4) See Col 1:15-17 quoted above.

This is confirmed in David's summary of these events in Psalm 8:5 "a little lower than the Angels (Heb: Elohim)":

Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Paul applies the words of Psalm 8:4-6, to Jesus. When Jesus came to earth, he was indeed made “a little lower than angels”—he became “a son of man.” (Heb 2:6) As a perfect human, he was a fitting counterpart to Adam. Jesus could thus give his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice and thereby “taste death for everyone.”

That is a fairly unique JW concept. I consider that the Angels have substantial visible Spirit Bodies and that is why they were at first mistaken as "men". How did Peter and John leave the prison in Acts 5:17-25?

The “sons of God” materialized and took the daughters of men in Noah’s day, and produced a gigantic race of violent bullies. God brought a global deluge in order to eliminate these freaks of nature who had no right to exist, and the flood forced their errant fathers back to the spirit realm where they were then stripped of the ability to materialize again. Faithful angels continued to visit servants of God on earth….always in human form.

Angels are mighty, powerful spirit creatures who are not visible to human eyes unless they are sent by the Father as messengers.
An example is when the enraged King of Assyria wanted to capture Elisha the prophet…..
“He said: “Go and find out where he is, so that I may send men to capture him.” Later the report was made to him: “He is in Doʹthan.” 14 He immediately sent horses and war chariots there, as well as a large army; they came by night and surrounded the city.

15 When the attendant* of the man of the true God rose early and went outside, he saw that an army with horses and war chariots was surrounding the city. At once the attendant said to him: “Alas, my master! What are we to do?” 16 But he said: “Do not be afraid! For there are more who are with us than those who are with them. 17 Then E·liʹsha began to pray and say: “O Jehovah, open his eyes, please, that he may see.” Immediately Jehovah opened the attendant’s eyes and he saw, and look! the mountainous region was full of horses and war chariots of fire all around E·liʹsha.”

God had to open the attendant’s eyes to see what Elisha was seeing…..God’s angels all around him…what an encouraging sight!

I consider that he inherited Adam's fallen nature through Mary his mother, but he never sinned.

As above, Mary was his physical hereditary mother and as such Jesus is a descendant of David:

If Jesus had one iota of Adam’s DNA in him he would fail as redeemer. The redemption price was set…atonement is “one for one”…..in this case ‘a sinless life for a sinless life’.…cancelling out the debt that Adam left for his children. (Rom 5:12) This is why Jesus had to come from outside the now defective human race.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Acts 2:29–32 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Romans 1:1–4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Jesus had the full list of credentials in order to claim his Messiahship. He was to be born of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem and his lineage had to connect to King David….both of his earthly parents were of David’s lineage. Joseph adopted Mary’s child as his own, so legally he qualified by both parents.

Mary supplied the female portion of the embryo. She was not a surrogate mother.

Since Scripture does not say by what process God created the child in Mary’s womb, we have no way to confirm or deny that statement. All we know is that Jesus said he ‘came down from heaven’ and that he had a glorious existence in heaven with his Father, before the world was. (John 17:5)

You are alluding to the unique JW doctrine that Jesus' body was not resurrected, but somehow preserved.

No, I am sticking to what Scripture says…..there was no body preserved…..it was sacrificed, and God himself saw to its disposal, thereby preventing what took place later in Roman Catholicism and its disgusting relic worship. Christ’s body would never see corruption in the grave, nor be tampered with in any way by humans.
Like the body of Moses, concealed from human interference.

You are also hinting at the unique JW view of the 144,000 who go to heaven and the majority staying on the earth after Armageddon.

It’s the Bible’s view….twice in Revelation we see 144,000 chosen from the earth, as “first fruits” to God, and these alone are God’s ‘elect’….’chosen’ to be rulers and priests with Christ in his Kingdom. They are said to be “resurrected first”. (Rev 20:6)

Rev 7:2-4, 9-10; 13-14…..
“And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:”

So these are the ones “sealed“ or chosen for a special purpose. This is spiritual Israel, not fleshly Israel because they rejected Jesus as Messiah….and lost their place.

But then another group are seen….

“After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.” (NASB)

In this Scripture, it specifically mentions a numbered group….but they are contrasted with a great multitude who were unnumbered.

Rev 14:1, 3-5….also speaks of these chosen ones….

“Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And they *sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.” (NASB)

Where are the 144,000 chosen from? And what does it mean that they are “first fruits“?
It seems pretty clear to me that 144000 are seen with Christ in heaven, whilst the majority remain on earth where God put us in the first place. The earth was not created to be a training ground for heaven….it was supposed to be our permanent home. The purpose of the Kingdom is to bring sinful mankind back to God in reconciliation, so that his first purpose for us can do ahead on earth as he planned all along. (Isa 55:11)

The great multitude are said to “come out of the great tribulation”, which occurs on earth…..so they are the faithful survivors of that awful event…..they will be “few” by comparison to the many who will perish at Armageddon.

I consider that "only begotten" refers to the conception mentioned in Mathew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35.

You are free to consider whatever you wish Trevor….but “only begotten” isn’t just related to Jesus’ human birth…he was God’s “only begotten son” long before the creation of anything else…..he is God’s “firstborn” in a very different way to Adam, who was also a created “son of God” (Luke 3:38)

 

[David Lamb]

Greetings again Aunty Jane,

I do not accept his pre-existence. His conception was the start of his life.

So what did Jesus mean when He said:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."” (Joh 8:58 NKJV)

Also, in His prayer to His Father He said:

“"And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” (Joh 17:5 NKJV)

How could He have existed before Abraham, and how could He have had glory with God the Father, if His existence only started with His conception in Mary?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Aunty Jane and Greetings David Lamb,

he is God’s “firstborn”

The role of firstborn speaks of status, not time. Isaac supplanted Ishmael, Jacob supplanted Esau.
Psalm 89:25–29 (KJV): 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
As far as the rest of your two posts I disagree with most of what you state, but I am no longer willing to turn this thread into a debate concerning JW unique doctrines.

So what did Jesus mean when He said:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."” (Joh 8:58 NKJV)

For starters, I consider John 8:58 should be translated "I am he", the same as John 8:24,28 and part of the theme of whether or not Jesus is the Christ. Relevant to this, I also consider that Exodus 3:14 should be translated as "I wilbe" Tyndale, "I will be" RV and RSV margins, not "I AM" KJV.

Also, in His prayer to His Father He said:
“"And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” (Joh 17:5 NKJV)
How .... could He have had glory with God the Father, if His existence only started with His conception in Mary?

I consider that Jesus was alluding to
Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Aunty Jane]

The role of firstborn speaks of status, not time. Isaac supplanted Ishmael, Jacob supplanted Esau.

Again Scripture disagrees with you…..you are ignoring what the Bible says to retain your Christadelphian view.
God’s “firstborn” was his “only begotten son”…one who existed before anything else. (Col 1:15-17)

Psalm 89:25–29 (KJV): 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
As far as the rest of your two posts I disagree with most of what you state, but I am no longer willing to turn this thread into a debate concerning JW unique doctrines.

You can disagree all you wish, but all I have posted are the Scriptural reasons for the views I have expressed. It’s a debate about Scripture really. It’s hard to argue with the plain statements of God’s word.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Aunty Jane,

You can disagree all you wish, but all I have posted are the Scriptural reasons for the views I have expressed. It’s a debate about Scripture really. It’s hard to argue with the plain statements of God’s word.

My first encounter with JWs was at my parents' front door when I was 16. In that discussion I disagreed with one of their views, but was impressed by what was expressed by the senior member on one issue. As a result of what he said I walked about 1 mile from Bexley West to Bexley North and purchased a green NWT from a JW lady and her mother. Since then I have had many minor encounters with JWs, and a series of four classes at my home. Over the years I have grown in understanding of what the Bible teaches and also come to a realisation that I disagree with many of the JW teachings. I am now 81 y.o. and consider that you will not impress me with most of the JW teachings.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Matthias]

Matthew and Luke are grounded on conception Christology.

The question that should be asked: Did John intend to overturn the conception Christology of Matthew and Luke?

If the answer is no, then the apostles stand together and John must be harmonized with Matthew and Luke. Trinitarianism, binitarianism and much of unitarianism doesn’t do that.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Greetings again Aunty Jane,

My first encounter with JWs was at my parents' front door when I was 16. In that discussion I disagreed with one of their views, but was impressed by what was expressed by the senior member on one issue. As a result of what he said I walked about 1 mile from Bexley West to Bexley North and purchased a green NWT from a JW lady and her mother. Since then I have had many minor encounters with JWs, and a series of four classes at my home. Over the years I have grown in understanding of what the Bible teaches and also come to a realisation that I disagree with many of the JW teachings. I am now 81 y.o. and consider that you will not impress me with most of the JW teachings.

I appreciate that Trevor….and it is not my aim to “impress” anyone, but simply to offer the truth so that all can read if they wish, and make up their own minds.

I am also aware of the fact that Jesus said “few” would be drawn to the truth because the devil has rulership of this world (1 John 5:19)…….but not for much longer. He has misled mankind spiritually since the beginning, so he he not going down without a fight. (Rev 12:7-12) God has used him to “separate the sheep from the goats”…..so we are all in either one category or the other….placed there by our own choices.

Those “saved” would be a hated and persecuted minority, just as it was in the first century. (John 15:18-21)
The world would resemble the days of Noah, with violence and immorality rife in all corners. And here we are….pestilence, earthquakes in one place after another, and love disappearing from the world, buried in selfishness and materialism. (Matt 24:3-14; 2 Tim 3:1-7) But through all of that, in these “last days”, Christ’s true disciples have been preaching his message of salvation, despite the ill will directed at them.

Only the sheep hear the voice of the Shepherd…..and only they will be “drawn” by the Father to his son. (John 6:44) Jesus is the only way to life, but no one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by the Father. (John 6:65) So just when we thought it was entirely up to us….it never really was. That was the whole purpose of the preaching and disciple-making work. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14) Only the sheep would respond….the goats would stubbornly hang onto their own ideas.

God is reading hearts and choosing the citizens for his kingdom very carefully, as he should, because these will share life in peace and total harmony in the paradise on earth that they were promised in the beginning. God’s plans for planet earth never went away (Isa 55:11)…they just got delayed whilst he dealt with those who abused their free will, which started in the spirit realm and spread to humankind. We are showing God who we really are by how we choose to live in this world. Only God knows the reasons for our choices.

Those chosen to be rulers in his Kingdom (Rev 20:6) will have the great privilege of restoring mankind to their original state of sinless perfection, so as to enjoy the life that God intended for them at the outset.

God’s 7th day of rest was not because he was tired, but because he paused to see where free will would take his intelligent children before he went any further into his future plans (whatever they happen to be).

We are so close to the finale’ now…..and no one will ever be able to say to the judge…”nobody told me”.
All will have decided for themselves what is truth, and God will not interfere with their choices. Free will is exercised and it will lead the majority to death….(Matt 7:13-14) When the judgment comes, the “many” will be offering their excuses as to why they didn’t listen, (Matt 7:21-23)…..”just like the days of Noah”. (Matt 24:37-39)
Those “last days” are here….people are seeing this world in its death throes.

 

[Matthias]

Gabriel says nothing to Joseph and Mary about an Incarnation of the second Person of the Trinity. They were Jewish monotheists. The only God whom they knew and worshipped is the God of the Jews, the Father. Gabriel is telling them how the God of the Jews himself would miraculously, supernaturally, cause Mary to conceive a human child (a human person) in her womb. Gabriel is telling them that this is the reason the baby would be called Son of God. Begetting / conception, not incarnation.

“begotten from the Father before all ages” - Nicene Creed.

Nicene Creed

www.crcna.org

Jewish monotheism: Jesus begotten by the Father -> circa 6 B.C. (Matthew 1 and Luke 1)

Trinitarianism: Jesus begotten from the Father -> eternal generation (Origen)

 

[Brakelite]

“begotten from the Father before all ages” - Nicene Creed.

Nicene Creed

www.crcna.org

Jewish monotheism: Jesus begotten by the Father -> circa 6 B.C. (Matthew 1 and Luke 1)

Trinitarianism: Jesus begotten from the Father -> eternal generation (Origen)

I agree with the Nicene creed, which was not yet Trinitarian in the truest sense. At that stage they haven't formulated how the Father, Son, and Spirit were one. Should have left that alone and settled for what scripture says. That Jesus was a Son before Bethlehem is obvious of you accept languages as it reads.
"For God sent His only begotten Son...". If the scriptures declare that God sent His Son into the world, then to my mind, He had a Son to send.
I do have reservations over a couple of expressions in the creed...co substantial...and the holy Spirit being adored oor worshipped. Nowhere in scripture are we told to pray let alone worship, to the Spirit. And consubstsntial...I believe the Son is of the same substance...DNA...material as the Father. Like Father like Son. But there are further presumptions added to that expression which I disagree with. Liked the indivisibility of the members of the Godhead included in later creeds.
BTW. I'm don't believe creeds should have ever been formulated... Ever. They became tools of oppression and persecution in the hands of tyrants.

 

[PGS11]

Tell me how could God have a son when he is not human

 

[PS95]

I agree with the Nicene creed, which was not yet Trinitarian in the truest sense. At that stage they haven't formulated how the Father, Sin, and Spirit were one. Should have left that alone and settled for what scripture says. That Jesus was a Son before Bethlehem is obvious of you accept languages as it reads.
"For God sent His only begotten Son...". If the scriptures declare that God sent His Son into the world, then to my mind, He had a Son to send.

No, That's not quite right ,Brakelight,
Nicea says- "God from God" and "light from light" means same essence. that's as if a flame on a torch, lit another torch. is it the same flame on both? Yes. if one is an eternal flame then the other is also. The only difference is the torch not the flame. Both are the same flame, both eternal but distinct.
So you see there it was One. yet distinct.

 

[PS95]

Tell me how could God have a son when he is not human

What kind of question? lol
God used Mary as a vessel. He did something to cause her pregnancy. We can only speculate-- He put something of Himself into Mary's reproductive egg? Since all things are possible with God, I am sure I can not answer you how. Other than HOW do I know?
Run from anyone who says they do know!

 

[Matthias]

I agree with the Nicene creed, which was not yet Trinitarian in the truest sense. At that stage they haven't formulated how the Father, Sin, and Spirit were one.

The original Nicene creed (325) wasn’t explicitly trinitarian, though there were those who understood it at the time as trinitarian. It was modified later (381) to leave no doubt about it being a trinitarian creed.

Should have left that alone and settled for what scripture says.

They should have listened to Jesus. He tells us unambiguously who his God and the God of his disciples is.

That Jesus was a Son before Bethlehem is obvious of you accept languages as it reads.

Preexistence is notional, not literal, in Jewish monotheism.

"For God sent His only begotten Son...".

God is the Father. That’s the basic tenet of Jewish monotheism.

If the scriptures declare that God sent His Son into the world, then to my mind, He had a Son to send.

To my mind as well.

“Just as you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.”

(John 17:18, CJB)

God had a Son to send into the world after God beget Jesus in the womb of the virgin. Jesus had disciples to send into the world after he began his ministry.

 

[Matthias]

Tell me how could God have a son when he is not human

The angel - in Matthew 1 and Luke 1 - tells us how.

For an alternative, see Origen.

 

[Matthias]

When Jesus said the following, who was it that shared the glory, other than the Father?
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ”
John 17:5 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Who was I, the one who was with the Father before creation?

“I” is a singular personal pronoun and means only one person. Is that not something we can agree on?

You might disagree but I also had glory with the Father before I was brought into existence.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Tell me how could God have a son when he is not human

It seems to me that your Christian education is rather limited….can I please answer this for you?

God has “sons” in heaven as well as on the earth. Angels are called “sons of God” and God’s chosen nation were also called his “sons”. God always used language that his audience understood. Family relationships were well understood In Israel.

Like today, there were some in his audience who had more knowledge of the Scriptures than others. Jesus came to teach them simple truths but with deeper meaning that could be grasped only after the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost, to those who were chosen to rule with Jesus in heaven. These are called his “elect” or “chosen ones”…they are chosen for a specific purpose….(Rev 20:6) to act as kings and priests and help to bring the human race, redeemed by Jesus’ sacrifice, back into reconciliation with the Father. They alone will be taken to heaven….the majority of humans who have ever lived and died, will be resurrected back to life on earth where God put us in the first place.

He lovingly prepared this earth with all that we would ever need to live an endless life in peace and happiness…..in paradise conditions.
His purpose in putting us here never changed. (Isa 55:11)

Satan’s rebellion spilled over into the human race when he lied to the woman and forced the man to make an impossible choice. He then had them to do his bidding. Adam’s choice to disobey God sealed our fate…..we were condemned to a life of sin and death (Rom 5:12) and only God could provide a rescuer.

We know he did…..he “sent his son”, who was in existence long before the creation of the “heavens and the earth”. (Col 1:15-17) He was not only present at creation but was used by his Father to bring it into existence.

Soon now Jesus will judge all mankind who will have no excuse not to “know the only true God AND the one he sent” (John 17:3) and what God requires of his worshippers. God actively “draws” right hearted ones to his truth….and they will all be in agreement with no divisions among them. (1 Cor 1:10) You will not find Christendom fitting that description, nor the lone voices telling everyone they are wrong, and that God has somehow chosen them to bring truth to the world….

God has always had his “people” who were different, and not well accepted by those in Satan’s world.
Jesus' told us what to expect in John 15:18-21. So who fits that description?

 

[Berean]

Tell me how could God have a son when he is not human

How could angels have children (the Nephilim) if they are not human?