Forgery in the Bible

[Quantrill]

Hi Qantrill,


Rev. 22
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 andy if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophec, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Did I miss your intent?!?


With Best Regards,
DaDad

Yes, my intent was that no one can add or take away from the Bible. To do so is not acceptable to me. I worded it in a way which was confusing and I have tried to edit it differently. I agree completely with Revelation 22:18.

Quantrill

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Hi UD,

NKJV
21 Thus Daniel continued until the first year of King Cyrus.

Please note that the dictionary defines "until" as a cessation, not a continuation.

Which proves what, exactly?

Secondly, per Calvin:

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom24.vii.xx.html?bcb=right

Expositors are puzzled with this verse, because, as we shall afterwards see, the Vision occurred to Daniel in the third year of Cyrus’s reign. Some explain the word היה, haiah, by to be “broken;”

So where Calvin acknowledged that 1:21 states Daniel DIED in the FIRST year of Cyrus, he then acquiesces his refelation to an incorrect understanding of 10:1. . -- So now I ask, how are 1:21 and 10:1 BOTH correct AS WRITTEN?

I'm not a Calvinist, and even if I was I would not simply assume that Calvin was correct in everything he believed. But since you brought it up, are you trying to say that Calvin was right and the Bible was wrong, or am I missunderstanding you?

 

[KingJ]

I've only begun to learn about this, so I am by no means an expert

But I found this very interesting, and there are Bible scholars who have found that there is a chance that people have forged parts of the Bible.

Also, there are parts of the Bible that were added later too!

What do you think about this topic, like your thoughts and feelings towards it? I find it very interesting, so I naturally just want to share it with everyone.

Try use some lateral thought. Do you really believe '''God'' will not preserve 'His word' until the end?

I just want you to try and understand that you are treading on very thin ice with God. God defends His word. Mock His word, stumble others from believing in His word and what do you think God will do with you? I get very nervous for all those that cause others to ignore / overlook / reject and do intentionally twist scripture.

 

[snr5557]

Try use some lateral thought. Do you really believe '''God'' will not preserve 'His word' until the end?


People make mistakes, or do things they aren't supposed to. It's called sin, it happens all the time. And the people who wrote the Bible are not different from any of us in that matter.


I just want you to try and understand that you are treading on very thin ice with God. God defends His word. Mock His word, stumble others from believing in His word and what do you think God will do with you? I get very nervous for all those that cause others to ignore / overlook / reject and do intentionally twist scripture.


It's weird to me how you seem to know what God is thinking, that you think you know that God is mad at me, or on very thin ice with me. That's a pretty loftly thinking on your part. I get very nervous when people think they know exactly what He is thinking.

Why are you putting quotations around God?

 

[DaDad]

Hi UD,

NKJV
21 Thus Daniel continued until the first year of King Cyrus.

Please note that the dictionary defines "until" as a cessation, not a continuation.

Which proves what, exactly?

If you danced until dawn, did you stop dancing at noon? If Daniel continued until the first year of Cyrus, did he stop continuing at the third year of Cyrus?

Presidents may parse words (it depends on what the meaning of is, is), but the rest of us should use the dictionary definitions.

I'm not a Calvinist, and even if I was I would not simply assume that Calvin was correct in everything he believed. But since you brought it up, are you trying to say that Calvin was right and the Bible was wrong, or am I missunderstanding you?

Secondly, per Calvin:

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom24.vii.xx.html?bcb=right

[SIZE=12pt]Expositors are puzzled with this verse, because, as we shall afterwards see, the Vision occurred to Daniel in the third year of Cyrus’s reign. Some explain the word [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]היה[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], haiah, by to be “broken;” [/SIZE]

It says "expositors". Calvin merely acknowledged their expertise, and then DISCOUNTED their expertise because he reverted to a FAILED understanding of 10:1. So the EXPOSITORS are correct, and Calvin is wrong.

Do you think there's a solution where Dan. 1:21 and Dan. 10:1 are BOTH correct. (I.e., What's black and white, and red all over?)



With Best Regards,
DaDad

 

[UppsalaDragby]

If you danced until dawn, did you stop dancing at noon? If Daniel continued until the first year of Cyrus, did he stop continuing at the third year of Cyrus?

If the text said that Daniel continued living until the first year you would have a valid point. The text does not tell us why Daniel only continued until the first year, but why assume death was the reason he left?

Also, you seem to assume that "continued" is the correct translation whereas "remained there" is incorrect. Is that right? If so, what do you base that assumption on?

Presidents may parse words (it depends on what the meaning of is, is), but the rest of us should use the dictionary definitions.

Did I say that I had any problem with the dictionary definition of "until"?

It says "expositors". Calvin merely acknowledged their expertise, and then DISCOUNTED their expertise because he reverted to a FAILED understanding of 10:1. So the EXPOSITORS are correct, and Calvin is wrong.

What exactly were the EXPOSITORS are correct about?

"Expositors are puzzled with this verse, because, as we shall afterwards see, the Vision occurred to Daniel in the third year of Cyrus’s reign. Some explain the word היה, haiah, by to be “broken;” but this is by no means in accordance with the history. Their opinion is right who say that Daniel continued to the first year of the reign of Cyrus in the discharge of the prophetic office, although expositors do not openly say so; but I state openly what they say obscurely.

 

[DaDad]

why assume death was the reason he left?

[SIZE=12pt]Some explain the word [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]היה[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], haiah, by to be “broken;”[/SIZE]

What exactly were the EXPOSITORS are correct about?

"Expositors are puzzled with this verse, because, as we shall afterwards see, the Vision occurred to Daniel in the third year of Cyrus’s reign. Some explain the word היה, haiah, by to be “broken;” but this is by no means in accordance with the history. Their opinion is right who say that Daniel continued to the first year of the reign of Cyrus in the discharge of the prophetic office, although expositors do not openly say so; but I state openly what they say obscurely.

[SIZE=12pt]Some explain the word [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]היה[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], haiah, by to be “broken;”[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]The 1st Chapter of Daniel covers Daniel's life from being brought into captivity until his death. It seems the issues remains how 10:1 can depict Daniel in the THIRD year of Cyrus, and be PERFECTLY CORRECT with being DEAD in the FIRST year of Cyrus. Have you come up with a solution? (What is black and white and red all over?)[/SIZE]



[SIZE=12pt]With Best Regards,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]DaDad[/SIZE]

 

[UppsalaDragby]

[SIZE=12pt]Some explain the word [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]היה[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], haiah, by to be “broken;”[/SIZE]

If only some do, then it obviously follows that some don't.

The 1st Chapter of Daniel covers Daniel's life from being brought into captivity until his death.

Well... that's what you are claiming, not what the text says.

It seems the issues remains how 10:1 can depict Daniel in the THIRD year of Cyrus, and be PERFECTLY CORRECT with being DEAD in the FIRST year of Cyrus. Have you come up with a solution? (What is black and white and red all over?)

A solution to what? If Daniel was still alive after the first year of Cyrus (which the Bible clearly teaches us) then what's the problem I am supposed to solve?

All I need to do is chose whether to believe your claims or what scripture tells us. I will leave it to you to figure out who I consider to be the most trustworthy.

 

[DaDad]

If only some do, then it obviously follows that some don't.

Some say that if you seek an opinion from THREE Jews, you'll receive FOUR answers.

If you don't like what Scripture and the scholars say, then please continue with your thoughts.


Good Luck,
DaDad

 

[UppsalaDragby]

I like what scripture says, and I'm OK with what the scholars say, it is what you say that I have a problem with.

Nothing in Dan 1 says anything about Daniel's death, so if I was you I would not go beyond what is written.

 

[DaDad]

Good Luck.

 

[KingJ]

Try use some lateral thought. Do you really believe '''God'' will not preserve 'His word' until the end?


People make mistakes, or do things they aren't supposed to. It's called sin, it happens all the time. And the people who wrote the Bible are not different from any of us in that matter.

They are my friend. They were inspired by God. You can also use some lateral thought by looking at the temptations of Jesus in Matt 4. Both Jesus and the devil quote scripture. They do NOT say....when person so and so said X and Y we think they meant this....NO...they said...'''It is written''. Meditate on that for a while.

I just want you to try and understand that you are treading on very thin ice with God. God defends His word. Mock His word, stumble others from believing in His word and what do you think God will do with you? I get very nervous for all those that cause others to ignore / overlook / reject and do intentionally twist scripture.


It's weird to me how you seem to know what God is thinking, that you think you know that God is mad at me, or on very thin ice with me. That's a pretty loftly thinking on your part. I get very nervous when people think they know exactly what He is thinking.

Why are you putting quotations around God?

Fine, don't take my word for it. Just read Rev 22:19 and 2 Peter 2.

 

[snr5557]

They are my friend. They were inspired by God. You can also use some lateral thought by looking at the temptations of Jesus in Matt 4. Both Jesus and the devil quote scripture. They do NOT say....when person so and so said X and Y we think they meant this....NO...they said...'''It is written''. Meditate on that for a while.

Well if a person made a mistake and then wrote, it is written, that wouldn't fix the mistake



Fine, don't take my word for it. Just read Rev 22:19 and 2 Peter 2.

He put that there because it happened so frequently. You know how it would be punishable by death for messing with the Bible? Because it happened, it's the "when you see smoke there's a fire" type situation.

 

[KingJ]

They are my friend. They were inspired by God. You can also use some lateral thought by looking at the temptations of Jesus in Matt 4. Both Jesus and the devil quote scripture. They do NOT say....when person so and so said X and Y we think they meant this....NO...they said...'''It is written''. Meditate on that for a while.

Well if a person made a mistake and then wrote, it is written, that wouldn't fix the mistake



Fine, don't take my word for it. Just read Rev 22:19 and 2 Peter 2.

He put that there because it happened so frequently. You know how it would be punishable by death for messing with the Bible? Because it happened, it's the "when you see smoke there's a fire" type situation.

With your line of reasoning you have yet to get confidence in any scripture being authentic. So let's start with the OT. God gave Moses the ten commandments. Do you believe that?

Better yet, do you believe John 3:16 is '''truth''?

 

[snr5557]

With your line of reasoning you have yet to get confidence in any scripture being authentic. So let's start with the OT. God gave Moses the ten commandments. Do you believe that?

I do, since I haven't found anything against it. Believe it or not, my faith is just as strong as it was before I found out about the possibility of forgeries. I get the feeling that people think I'm on the brink of giving up my religion which I'm not. I seek to know as much as possible about the Bible, including it's origin, the people who wrote it, the history etc.

This is just in general on this site, you may not have been implying this.

 

[lforrest]

I do, since I haven't found anything against it. Believe it or not, my faith is just as strong as it was before I found out about the possibility of forgeries. I get the feeling that people think I'm on the brink of giving up my religion which I'm not. I seek to know as much as possible about the Bible, including it's origin, the people who wrote it, the history etc.

Jesus Christ must be the foundation for your belief, and nothing should be allowed to question that if you are to be as secure as you claim. The biblical canon is all true; the question is what should be taken literally. I believe more should be taken literally than many Christians think.

 

[snr5557]

Jesus Christ must be the foundation for your belief, and nothing should be allowed to question that if you are to be as secure as you claim. The biblical canon is all true; the question is what should be taken literally. I believe more should be taken literally than many Christians think.

Here's the thing, He is. I don't see why everyone can't grasp that. I don't think it's meant to be taken literally. For some, unless the scripture is completely true with no faults they believe that their faith would disappear, but it doesn't for me. In a way, my foundation is even stronger than most.

 

[Quantrill]

Here's the thing, He is. I don't see why everyone can't grasp that. I don't think it's meant to be taken literally. For some, unless the scripture is completely true with no faults they believe that their faith would disappear, but it doesn't for me. In a way, my foundation is even stronger than most.

What is your foundation?

Quantrill

 

[snr5557]

What is your foundation?

Quantrill

God is my foundation.

 

[Quantrill]

God is my foundation.

How do you know?

Quantrill