Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay then, you explain this:

“You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ 22 But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment!

You were so, so, so close to a really good place when you said - well then, theres no sense trying to be good if it cant be done! (Even Jesus said, why do you call me good? There is only one who is good.) This is like the disciples when they said, but...if this is true then who on earth can be saved???

If it is true that no murderers will be there and if it is true that anger and muttering resentments in your heart are murder, then who on earth can be saved??? That is the correct response. In fact, it is the ONLY response a human can honestly HAVE.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This sort of thing can make you feel alone. Who can feel your pain? How many people on this forum have problems...emotional anxieties, mental issues. I feel for them, but I cannot feel their pain. And good therapists are not easy to find and the medications are not much more than a sad patch. So they self medicate with drugs. Alternate realities...sedation.... I am hoping for something different for them in the not to distant future.

You are sorely mistaken if you think you never have anger and resentments.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are sorely mistaken if you think you never have anger and resentments.

I stub my toe now and then....not always and not often. And it does not make me out of the control.

 

[Grailhunter]

“You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ 22 But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment!

Again back to control of the mind. Christ is heading it off at the pass....if your not going to think of it, you are not going to do it.
Discipline and accountability.

Jesus said, why do you call me good? There is only one who is good.) T

The OSAS crowd love these type of verses because they think it justified sinning. Might as well give up! It is hopeless! No we are not perfect but we can be good.

If it is true that no murderers will be there and if it is true that anger and muttering resentments in your heart are murder, then who on earth can be saved??? That is the correct response. In fact, it is the ONLY response a human can honestly HAVE.

Well lets keep it real....most people have not killed people.
But the simplest, concept is that salvation is solid as a rock for your average Christian. Your average Christian will sin and ask forgiveness and Grace will cover that. And those sins are between them and Christ. Christ was sacrificed for a plan that would be highly successful.

But your average Christian is not going to be LGBTQ.
Your average Christian is not going to make a life out of drugs.
Your average Christian is not going to be an abortion doctor or staff.
Your average Christian is not going to be a serial killer.
Your average Christian is not gong to be a child molester.
Your average Christian is not going to get involved with the occult.

For Christians, sinful lifestyles hold the most potential for a path to hell. And there are those that take the side that if you can live a sinful lifestyle.... that you were not saved to begin with. Of if you can do the most evil of sins that you were not saved to begin with.
I am on the fence on this, I think it is possible for some of the cases.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I remember that post. You dont have to repeat it. I remember it well.

You are still not addressing the passage.

And you still arent addressing the kinds of things I am speaking about. I am not talking about stubbing your toe. I am talking about when someone does something really awful and unfair to you and the fuming anger and resentment that arises in your heart over it. Truly, you havent been treated as badly as our Lord was. In fact, how someone treated you is a pfft compared to the awful and unfair way our Lord was treated and yet He said, forgive them. Do you not see that you are really nothing like our Lord? Do you honestly not see what I am saying?

 

[Grailhunter]

You are still not addressing the passage.

Are you talking the no one is good thing...or the.... you must hate your mother and father to be a disciple of Christ...and also give away everything you own to be disciple of Christ....or the one that says if you continue to willfully sin, that there is no hope for you.

You are better off focusing on Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say?

If not
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Truly, you havent been treated as badly as our Lord was.

Who has been treated as bad as Christ was....have you?

Do you not see that you are really nothing like our Lord?

This is a silly question...But yes I am generally good.

I am talking about when someone does something really awful and unfair to you and the fuming anger and resentment that arises in your heart over it.

I do not know what has been done to you? And yes people do get mad and they get over it....if you cannot get over it, that is were the problem lies.

 

[Grailhunter]

I remember that post. You dont have to repeat it. I remember it well.

You are still not addressing the passage.

And you still arent addressing the kinds of things I am speaking about. I am not talking about stubbing your toe. I am talking about when someone does something really awful and unfair to you and the fuming anger and resentment that arises in your heart over it. Truly, you havent been treated as badly as our Lord was. In fact, how someone treated you is a pfft compared to the awful and unfair way our Lord was treated and yet He said, forgive them. Do you not see that you are really nothing like our Lord? Do you honestly not see what I am saying?

A lot of things get misunderstood in Christianity. One of them is forgiveness. The benefits of forgiveness goes both ways. Most are focusing on being forgiven.... and most understand that we should forgive others....but not all understand the benefits of forgiving others....if you truly forgive someone, that pain and resentment should go away.

Then there is Baptism....once you come out of that water....you are new person from the perspective of God....nothing that you have done before that is remembered and that person that was mistreated by others....you should drop that from your memory...
If you remember yours sins...that is something that Satan can use against you....If you remember people mistreating you...it will continue to haunt you. Baggage baggage baggage, hauling around your sins and painful memories when there is no benefit.

 

[Grailhunter]

I remember that post. You dont have to repeat it. I remember it well.

You are still not addressing the passage.

And you still arent addressing the kinds of things I am speaking about. I am not talking about stubbing your toe. I am talking about when someone does something really awful and unfair to you and the fuming anger and resentment that arises in your heart over it. Truly, you havent been treated as badly as our Lord was. In fact, how someone treated you is a pfft compared to the awful and unfair way our Lord was treated and yet He said, forgive them. Do you not see that you are really nothing like our Lord? Do you honestly not see what I am saying?

Have you read were I said that you could fit all you needed to know about salvation on a 3X5 card and be saved. That is 100% percent correct. The message of the Gospels....the Good News....in not mystical mumbo jumbo! It is not even religious mumbo Jumbo! Be good! Can it get any simpler than that! If you are a Christian and want to go to heaven, Be Good.

People have different struggles in life and Christ is not stupid. He knows all that! On Judgment Day Christ will take all things into account and His judgment will be fair. Do the best you can! Do not let people confuse you....The Gospel message is very simple.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Have you read were I said that you could fit all you needed to know about salvation on a 3X5 card and be saved. That is 100% percent correct. The message of the Gospels....the Good News....in not mystical mumbo jumbo! It is not even religious mumbo Jumbo! Be good! Can it get any simpler than that! If you are a Christian and want to go to heaven, Be Good.

People have different struggles in life and Christ is not stupid. He knows all that! On Judgment Day Christ will take all things into account and His judgment will be fair. Do the best you can! Do not let people confuse you....The Gospel message is very simple.

Our Lord did not let Himself be brutally murdered to give us the message of "be good." The good news is not "be good."

 

[Grailhunter]

Our Lord did not let Himself be brutally murdered to give us the message of "be good." The good news is not "be good."

So you think Christ promotes sin? You think Christ embraces sin? Do you think He started a religion of sin and sin some more and be rewarded with Heaven? That Heaven is full of evildoers? The Good News of the Gospel is that you can be saved that is for sure. But it is still simple, Christian are to be good people. Christ and Apostles did not set the example of sin and sin some more. If you want to go to Heaven, be good.

 

[Grailhunter]

Our Lord did not let Himself be brutally murdered to give us the message of "be good." The good news is not "be good."

You are trying to level everyone else on the playing field as sinners. Why? To justify doing something that you know is a sin? To make yourself feel better about not being able to stop...sinning. If so you need to PM me so we can get this straight.

 

[justbyfaith]

Even this verse can be taken the wrong way by a man. It speaks about holiness and not about the righteousness a man can do or ever be capable of. If any man is brought by God to see himself truly in light of this verse, He will admit (eventually, after he has struggled with the sin he sees in him) that God is asking of him what he is not capable of. It’s meant to make him cry out to God for more of Gods own righteousness and more grace/power.

What is written in the verse is clear: if you have hatred in your heart towards any brother, you do not have eternal life abiding in you.

And there you go again saying most of us do not murder. If God has spoken the truth that to have anger is to have murdered, how can you say most men, let alone most Christians, have never murdered?

I know that I had a huge problem with anger before I came to Christ.

But when I became born again, the love, joy, and peace of the Holy Spirit flooded in and replaced that anger. It couldn't exist in my heart any more.

Yep—- murder is included.....just ask three Murderers we know that are in Heaven today as we speak..Moses....David.....Paul....

1Jo 3:15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Moses...David...Paul...most assuredly repented and were not murderers by the time that they got to the end of their lives.

Consider that Jesus spoke of the possibility of dying in your sins (John 8:21, John 8:24)...

He is able and willing to cleanse you from all sin (1 John 1:7) if you will turn from them.

If it is true that no murderers will be there and if it is true that anger and muttering resentments in your heart are murder, then who on earth can be saved???

Those who have been cleansed on the inside of the cup and platter. It is written,

1Jo 3:15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

I am not talking about stubbing your toe. I am talking about when someone does something really awful and unfair to you and the fuming anger and resentment that arises in your heart over it.

I normally deal with anger like that by giving it over to God. He has said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord".

If a believer does something to hurt me, I thank the Lord that He scourges every son whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6). And if an unbeliever hurts me, I normally pray that He will receive them as a son...I thereby kill two birds with one stone...I have my justice from the Lord and the person also will very likely be redeemed.

But I will say again that when the love, joy, and peace of the Lord flooded into my heart, anger no longer had any ability to reside in my heart.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

He forgave us while we were yet sinners.
Forgiveness is offered to all and all have sinned.
Forgiveness is received when those who believe, ask for it.
The Law was impossible to keep perfectly. It was a schoolmaster that pointed us to the Messiah. The Jews tried to keep the Law perfectly and failed. Only Christ could fulfill the requirements of the Law for us. He did the work.
The commandment to love one another is something we live by and also fail at times. There are few who love their neighbor as themselves. We try. The commandments are likened to a precious possession.
We are given the gift of faith. We hold onto to It and care for It. We are given a relationship with God , who is love and so in turn we share that love with others. He is the source, we tap into it and pass it around. He is the vine, we are the branches that eventually produce fruit.
We do not love perfectly everyone at every opportunity, but we try, practice and grow in HIS LOVE. That's what Christ wants us to do, take possession of His love and share it. I think this is a profound concept. We don't generate love, God is love, He generates it and as we cooperate, it moves through us. He knows our flesh will get in the way, He knows we will stumble, be selfish at times, be lazy, ignore or give excuses for not welcoming the opportunity to love when it is needed. And strangely enough He already forgave for that a long time ago.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I reject this concept...they use to call it mudding the water....so everything is grey areas so all amount of sin is forgiven. And most of us do not murder...most Christians are not child molesters...serial rapists...there is a right and a wrong and most Christians know that and do not give up trying to be good because some one like you suggest that all sin is the same.

Have to think past your nose. How can you not lose your salvation? That would be the question. The alternative is that no one would lose their salvation and heaven would be full of evildoers. Every type of sin! murderers...child molesters.....child molester that ate their victims....seral rapists.

Then the question would be....what is hell for? Another question would be, if heaven is for evil, were is God and good people going to go? If heaven is for evil, how is that a reward for good people? It would seem to be an eternal punishment for good people. My yoke is easy and my burden is light and plenty of light so you see all the magnificent evil in heaven.

Your thinking is messed up!

We are all “ Evil” to one degree or other....” There is NO ONE that is Good—- NO! Not ONE !” Nobody wants anything to do with God until the Holy Spirit bestows upon them “ Contrite Hearts” .....”Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” .....that Spirit “ draws” by the Conviction Of Sin...When one Truly sees his utter wretchedness before a Holy God and understands that he is headed for a well- deserved Hell......He will be MORE than happy to receive a Free Gift offered to ALL that “Turn to God” with Faith in Jesus Christ......

The sad fact is this—- we are all lost sinners , deserving of Hell, but God has the cure .....some take it and others don’t—- what remains is this: Heaven is for Forgiven Evil-Doers and Hell is for UNforgiven Evil- Doers....

Want to be in that “Forgiven” group? That’s easy.....Ask. “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL be Saved”

The Secret to getting Saved is to see that you need it .....if you still dwell in “ The Fool’s Paradise” where the Spiritually Blind Live......that place whose denizens think that even though they are not Perfect, they are “ good enough” to get to Heaven.....you had better wake up ......pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes and gets you to fall on your knees and do like the Evil Publican did——Cry out, “ Lord ( Jesus) have Mercy on me, a Sinner.That simple Heart - felt prayer got that man Saved—- Jesus said he went home “ Justified”, which means, “ just as if he had never sinned”.....That Prayer Of Repentance worked for the guy....it worked for me .....and I guarantee it will work for you.....RUN, don’t walk, from ANYBODY that says different! God bless.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, grace means that I can sin and still be saved, correct?



You had better pray like hell that that is True,Sinner....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Hatred is a thing of the mind....and it is very bad. Control your mind and you will not physically sin. This is the teaching of Christ. Love in your mind and you will be loving. If you lust after a woman and you have committed adultery. But what you are thinking wrong.
What you are saying gives Christians a license to sin. Make a fool our of Christ. Messed up!



Episkopos is a snake in the grass. A danger to all that is innocent. He and I had it out as soon as I got on this forum. Christianity is about good and not a reason to condone sin. And evildoers will go to hell. We all fall short of God, but He counts on us to be good the best we can. Heaven will not be full of evil. Hell will be full of evil. If you are a Christian and what to go to heaven, be good. If not, you will be a Christian in hell.

Wow. I had no idea how absolutely Clueless you are about Christianity.....if we could be Saved by “ being good” , Jesus died for for NOTHING....you are as Confused and as Lost as a man can get....May God open your eyes.....you are Blind to the Gospel that could have Saved you

 

[Grailhunter]

We are all “ Evil” to one degree or other....” There is NO ONE that is Good—- NO! Not ONE !” Nobody wants anything to do with God until the Holy Spirit bestows upon them “ Contrite Hearts” .....”Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him” .....that Spirit “ draws” by the Conviction Of Sin...When one Truly sees his utter wretchedness before a Holy God and understands that he is headed for a well- deserved Hell......He will be MORE than happy to receive a Free Gift offered to ALL that “Turn to God” with Faith in Jesus Christ......

The sad fact is this—- we are all lost sinners , deserving of Hell, but God has the cure .....some take it and others don’t—- what remains is this: Heaven is for Forgiven Evil-Doers and Hell is for UNforgiven Evil- Doers....

Want to be in that “Forgiven” group? That’s easy.....Ask. “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL be Saved”

The Secret to getting Saved is to see that you need it .....if you still dwell in “ The Fool’s Paradise” where the Spiritually Blind Live......that place whose denizens think that even though they are not Perfect, they are “ good enough” to get to Heaven.....you had better wake up ......pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes and gets you to fall on your knees and do like the Evil Publican did——Cry out, “ Lord ( Jesus) have Mercy on me, a Sinner.That simple Heart - felt prayer got that man Saved—- Jesus said he went home “ Justified”, which means, “ just as if he had never sinned”.....That Prayer Of Repentance worked for the guy....it worked for me .....and I guarantee it will work for you.....RUN, don’t walk, from ANYBODY that says different! God bless.....

Of course I disagree with pretty much everything you said there.
Repent of your evil preaching.

 

[Grailhunter]

Wow. I had no idea how absolutely Clueless you are about Christianity.....if we could be Saved by “ being good” , Jesus died for for NOTHING....you are as Confused and as Lost as a man can get....May God open your eyes.....you are Blind to the Gospel that could have Saved you?

You see you lie...then you twist...then you lie some more....the ambassador of sin that you are.
I nor anyone here believes we are saved by being good. Our only part is choosing Christ and we do that by our own accord.
Those that are in Christ are good people. You have to much interest in sin to have any connection to Christ. Repent.

 

[Grailhunter]

Wow. I had no idea how absolutely Clueless you are about Christianity.....if we could be Saved by “ being good” , Jesus died for for NOTHING....you are as Confused and as Lost as a man can get....May God open your eyes.....you are Blind to the Gospel that could have Saved you?

More lies...Repent

 

[justbyfaith]

The Jews tried to keep the Law perfectly and failed. Only Christ could fulfill the requirements of the Law for us. He did the work.

Not only that...He does the work.

As He lives His life in us and through us (Galatians 2:20), we will walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit...and the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

There is NO ONE that is Good—- NO! Not ONE !”

Barnabas was good (Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24).

And Jesus said that there is no one good, before the Cross.

After the Cross, the Holy Spirit is given to men (John 7:39)...

Therefore, men bear the fruit of, among other things, goodness (Galatians 5:22-23).

Want to be in that “Forgiven” group? That’s easy.....Ask. “Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL be Saved”

More accurately, whosoever calls on the name of the Lord (Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12) shall be saved (Romans 10:13)

So, grace means that I can sin and still be saved, correct?

You had better pray like hell that that is True,Sinner....

1 John 3:9 tells me that if I am born again, I am not a sinner.

And I will pray like heaven that THAT is true.