Good to see you here, Stranger. I've given up on visiting that other forum for a while. Perhaps in the future if time and interest gets hold of me.
That is what I was taught in the public school system, but I graduated from high school in 1961 so my education differs in that respect probably from many others on this forum. In college I only took one required history course. I enjoyed it so much I considered changing my major, but did not.
I understand you, from what I have read on this forum, on the other hand, have done quite a lot of some digging and researching of your own. While my conclusions are some thing are certainly different than yours, many of your points are well taken, by me anyway.
The Catholics of course had an interest and strong connections early on in North America, but their staunchest supporters, the Spanish and Portuguese had their investments much farther south for different reasons. I have no doubt that God has His hand in the whole set up for His own purposes. Protestantism was necessary to His plan, I believe, even as His confusion of those building the tower of Babel was necessary to His plan. But... that is just my opinion. I would be slow to try to support it with scripture.
Seeing today where the United States is, I get some different ideas myself on just where we, as a nation, fit into His plan. Does make one wonder.
I don't disagree with you... at least not with this part. For many of the people who actually fled Europe to retain or obtain their ability to reach out to God without interference from political or religious powers what you said would have been the case. But... it was not only Catholics in Europe who suppressed for different reasons those who wanted to be left alone to serve God as they would. A formal connection to an established church group, Catholic or Protestant, was almost perhaps without doubt to obtained financial or polical gains.
Unfortunately the true seekers are too often lumped together with everyone else who was not part of the formal Catholicism.
I am familiar with some of your ideas on this as I have read quite a few of your posts although I did not usually actively participate in those threads. As I have already at least intimated, I do believe God was involved in the exodus from Europe and the development of the United States as a nation. Being primarily white anglo saxon protestant [W.A.S.P.] through my father, I also benefited somewhat, [although for year unbeknownst to me] as a "white" man. God uses what is available to Him to further His plan.
You have always been it seems to me quite strongly against most anything that Lincoln did. He was certainly no sinless saint, but neither was George Washington nor any of those listed among the ones known as the founding fathers of this country. None of us is qualified to judge them ultimately.
Lincoln fought for what he believed as probably did many of the men in the southern Confederacy in that bloody war from 1861-1865. Who among them were truly Christ-like in the totality of their walk with God... if they had such a walk. You are biased toward the general causes of the South and I can understand that. However, I am not so sure that their solution of dividing the country into two nations would have been the best result for anyone. Perhaps I am biased somewhat in Lincoln's favor on some things but to be honest I cannot say that the mess I see around me with our strong central government instead of a group of strong state governments was the best possible result. Ideally the strong states may have been better, but without the central strength could they or would they have been able to endure against the power of other greedy imperialistic nations?
It is a moot point, because we have what we have in spite of what may have been. God is working with the now for us as we are in the now. History makes a difference because people are in a large measure probably formed by that history. Our best position as I see it is to remain always on God's side. Where then is that...hmmm?
Good to talk to you.
In your time you were part of the school system that still operated on Christian beliefs. That has long since been cast aside. This is why there is the great movement today to rewrite history. To write it in light of secular atheism.
To remark on your last paragraph, concerning my statement about Lincoln, I believe it is important, though not the place to start. Our country is tearing down the statues and monuments of the Southern people whenever it can. But it, our country, is also interested in taking away Washington's name and his monuments as well as Coloumbus's. And make no mistake, they will one day get them. These same people are of the ones who want to remove every vestige of Christianity from our government. Thus the 10 commandments are often removed from government property.
Of course no nation comes into existence without God's will. Whether it be Babel or Israel. And good and evil will be found in any nation. But, I believe there is a 'spiritual authority' over every nation that is either good or evil. This authority has to do with the angelic realm and the spirit of the people who make up the nation. Even though the atheist does not believe he has a spirit, is no matter. It makes him all the more susceptible. See (Dan. 10:10-20)
So, as I mentioned before, we must start with the original founding of the New World to determine if our country was founded as a Christian country. Yes Europe was Roman Christianity at that time. But that really doesn't matter. It was Christian. As I have said before, from King to pauper. As Columbus was one of the main players in this era of discovery here are some quotes from him.
Quotes are from a letter dated March 14, 1493. These come from (Select Letters Of Christopher Columbus, etc., etc., R.H. Major, ed, London, 1847, pp. 1-17). I have found them in the book, (Annals of America, Vol. 1, Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc., 2003, p. 1-5)
"To the first of these islands, which is called by the Indians Guanahani, I gave the name of the blessed Savior (San Salvador), relying upon whose protection I had reached this as well as the other islands;" (p. 1)
"But these great and marvelous results are not to be attributed to any merit of mine but to the holy Christian faith and to the piety and religion of our sovereigns; for that which the unaided intellect of man could not compass, the Spirit of God has granted to human exertions, for God is wont to hear the prayers of His servants who love His precepts even to the performance of apparent impossibilities." (p. 5)
"Therefore, let the King and Queen, our Princes, and their most happy kingdoms, and all the other provinces of Christendom render thanks to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who has granted us so great a victory and such prosperity." (p. 5)
"Let Christ rejoice on earth, as He rejoices in heaven in the prospect of the salvation of the souls of so many nations hitherto lost. Let us also rejoice, as well on account of the exaltation of our faith as on account of the increase of our temporal prosperity, of which not only Spain but all Christendom will be partakers."
Stranger
