Four Times People Physically Tried To Kill JESUS, But He Would Not Let Them Until He Decided When = Luke 4;24-31

[360watt]

No... Moses never said I Am.... and neither did Jesus.... You just follow what ever you read in the bible in your hand as if it is the word of God.... Sorry... but you have a translation of the word of God... Translations that differ greatly from each other...

NOW.... Let's look at how your pastor confused you with the term I AM and how he told you Jesus made this statement...
Grab your ankles.... Time for a biblical spanking...

There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας
Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.

Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Just as the Greek Text shows... Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus? Especially that classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

The Jewish leaders were very well aware of what Jesus was saying about himself! Jesus Was not claiming to be God but the Son of God as Shown in John 19:6. They give the very reason they wanted Him dead!

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God! He claimed to be God's chosen one... the Messiah/Christ

Paul

Have a look at this:

11 Reasons to Affirm the Deity of Christ

In early church history, one of the biggest theological debates centered on the deity of Jesus Christ. There are still groups that deny His deity today. By contrast, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God.

blog.tms.edu

and this:

The Deity of Jesus | Moody Bible Institute

The Bible directly states that Jesus is God in a number of passages.1 Taken by themselves, these verses provide enough evidence for the church to believe in and teach the deity of Jesus Christ. But the indirect evidence of Scripture is equally compelling.

www.moodybible.org

and that will do from me. :0

 

[Wrangler]

it is beyond our complete understanding.

Nonsense tends to be beyond our complete understanding. See Appeal to Ignorance.

 

[360watt]

Nonsense tends to be beyond our complete understanding. See Appeal to Ignorance.

The trinity is not nonsense to some of the greatest minds that ever lived.

Human terms just can't quite cover the full status of God.

That is all. It's not illogical or nonsense. Otherwise the doctrine would not have stood the test of time.

A human can have a mind, body and soul.. but when we talk about God.. He can't have three equal expressions/personas?

This has been done to dash anyway.. resolved by many over a long long period of time.

Worship Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

The trinity is not nonsense to some of the greatest minds that ever lived.

And is was nonsense to some of the greatest minds that ever lived. See how that works?

 

[Wrangler]

Human terms just can't quite cover the full status of God.

Appeal to Ignorance.

 

[Wrangler]

It's not illogical or nonsense.

It is illogical or nonsense if anything is. Many such nonsense pass the test of time, like global warming.

 

[Wrangler]

Worship Jesus.

Nowhere is that a thing to do in Scripture. Read how Jesus taught us to pray.

 

[Wrangler]

A human can have a mind, body and soul.. but when we talk about God.. He can't have three equal expressions/personas?

Yet a mind, body and soul are part of a person, not a separate person. See the difference?

 

[APAK]

Well, people can come up with terms to try and express the one Triune God.. but they fall short.. because it is beyond our complete understanding.

I don't like the word 'persons' for the Trinity.. because in my mind.. that is seperate beings. But then I try 'expressions'. .and it seems to be good.. but then Jesus talking to the Father just becomes and 'expression' talking to an 'expression'.. when they are distinct entities.

The main thing is .. I don't believe the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are seperate. Or seperate beings.

One being.. God.. in 3 personas/essences/substances. And not modalism.. it's not sock puppets.

But scripture is clear .. Jesus is fully God.

He didn't have to say 'I am God' to people. His actions and abilities showed it.

'Son' also.. does not mean 'born out of'.. like our families. It is 'image' 'expression' 'supreme heir'.. that's the biblical context of it.

I am not sure what you believe about Jesus.. but this my thoughts.

G'Day mate, I enjoyed Christchurch before the earthquake.....I used to live in the North Island myself.

Anyway, there is no such thing as a triune god from scripture. And there is no mystery in knowing who the real God and the Son of God are from scripture. One is the Father God and creator and the other his Son, God's anointed one who was and still is a human spirit that in living in immortality today. Keep it simple and do not introduce Platonic Greek ideas into the nature of God. Then you will surely be mystified and confused in who you really pray to and worship.....

 

[360watt]

Yet a mind, body and soul are part of a person, not a separate person. See the difference?

I do...that is why it don't see the 3 in the Triune God as separate. But they are distinct persona

 

[360watt]

G'Day mate, I enjoyed Christchurch before the earthquake.....I used to live in the North Island myself.

Anyway, there is no such thing as a triune god from scripture. And there is no mystery in knowing who the real God and the Son of God are from scripture. One is the Father God and creator and the other his Son, God's anointed one who was and still is a human spirit that in living in immortality today. Keep it simple and do not introduce Platonic Greek ideas into the nature of God. Then you will surely be mystified and confused in who you really pray to and worship.....

Jesus is fully God ..co equal..co eternal..co existing.. with the Father and Son. One being in three personas.

Just look at biblical works over the past 500 years on this.

 

[APAK]

Jesus is fully God ..co equal..co eternal..co existing.. with the Father and Son. One being in three personas.

Just look at biblical works over the past 500 years on this.

That's the problem 360w, even the last 1900 years when the extra-biblical creeds were invented out of man's imaginations. As they are called the traditions of men amongst many other man-made works of confusion and corruption.

There is not one verse with context in scripture, period that says the Son of God is also God. Sounds absurd just writing it here. And most believe this confusing and even illogical reasoning, ...

God is ONE individual or person, period, as the OT readily attests. It does not change because God begets a son..as we find in the NT. He does not suddenly split into 3 parts of persona..

And that individual is called YHWH, the Father of all of us.

The new believers in Christ, immediately following the Judahite believers during Christ's time, often began to get very confused, especially because they were either raised with a Greek cultural background or were heavily influenced by it. They were confused because they were not raised with a Hebrew OT background. They really did not have a great understanding of the Hebrew scriptures as their guide.

And as a clear example of this confusion, look at what they must have thought when the disciples bowed down to the lord Messiah, NOT the LORD God. The disciples called Jesus 'lord.' Many thought then that Jesus was also a deity or even God. And even reached out further and thought well the Father God's own Spirit might also be another person of God. Let's make it another person, the Spirit as another person of God and a separate person from the Father. And this trend in thought mixed in with Hellenic ideas matured that paved the way to the ridiculous, and for me, the infamous creeds into the slow formation and maturity of the Trinity concept through much political wrangling, physical pain, torture, forfeiture of property and assets, and even death for those that disagreed with the current powers.

Yes, this is the corrupt work of the past 1900 years and even the 500 years. If Luther really want to separate himself from the RCC he would have dumped the Trinity concept and returned to real Monotheism and Monotarianism before the days of Creeds and Hellenic poisons in scripture and doctrine.

I would suggest you really examine this 'work' and assess it value carefully to how and who believe in, the real Christ and the real Father we called YHWH.....I can say much more....

//Did you ever travel to Petone, L. Hutt, Levin and Mangore? ..they were the places I lived and grew up in...Times and life were much simpler back then...not so much today.

 

[360watt]

That's the problem 360w, even the last 1900 years when the extra-biblical creeds were invented out of man's imaginations. As they are called the traditions of men amongst many other man-made works of confusion and corruption.

There is not one verse with context in scripture, period that says the Son of God is also God. Sounds absurd just writing it here. And most believe this confusing and even illogical reasoning, ...

God is ONE individual or person, period, as the OT readily attests. It does not change because God begets a son..as we find in the NT. He does not suddenly split into 3 parts of persona..

And that individual is called YHWH, the Father of all of us.

The new believers in Christ, immediately following the Judahite believers during Christ's time, often began to get very confused, especially because they were either raised with a Greek cultural background or were heavily influenced by it. They were confused because they were not raised with a Hebrew OT background. They really did not have a great understanding of the Hebrew scriptures as their guide.

And as a clear example of this confusion, look at what they must have thought when the disciples bowed down to the lord Messiah, NOT the LORD God. The disciples called Jesus 'lord.' Many thought then that Jesus was also a deity or even God. And even reached out further and thought well the Father God's own Spirit might also be another person of God. Let's make it another person, the Spirit as another person of God and a separate person from the Father. And this trend in thought mixed in with Hellenic ideas matured that paved the way to the ridiculous, and for me, the infamous creeds into the slow formation and maturity of the Trinity concept through much political wrangling, physical pain, torture, forfeiture of property and assets, and even death for those that disagreed with the current powers.

Yes, this is the corrupt work of the past 1900 years and even the 500 years. If Luther really want to separate himself from the RCC he would have dumped the Trinity concept and returned to real Monotheism and Monotarianism before the days of Creeds and Hellenic poisons in scripture and doctrine.

I would suggest you really examine this 'work' and assess it value carefully to how and who believe in, the real Christ and the real Father we called YHWH.....I can say much more....

//Did you ever travel to Petone, L. Hutt, Levin and Mangore? ..they were the places I lived and grew up in...Times and life were much simpler back then...not so much today.

Oh haven't stopped in those places long. I've been through. Stayed in Wellywood a few times.

I grew up in Darfield, Canterbury. Then lived in Samoa for 3 years and then came to Christchurch.

Times were simpler... Parents could send kids to play on the street and it was safe..just tell them to come back for lunch and dinner.

More so I guess in a place like Darfield..but CHCH you could do that too.

 

[Wrangler]

Keep it simple and do not introduce Platonic Greek ideas into the nature of God.

Very few understand this and it probably deserves its own thread.

Such is the effect of culture. We are like a fish unaware that it is in water.

 

[ChristisGod]

So.... You think know God.... Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Good then.... let's talk about the Holy Spirit .....

Then.... We can move on to Jesus.....

Now as to the Spirit of God....

Show me the Spirit of God..... Because I can show you


Man Up... 360Watt:

Context is King now read John 17:5 where the Son declares He was together with the Father before creation, before the world came into existence.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Wrangler]

Context is King now read John 17:5 where the Son declares He was together with the Father before creation, before the world came into existence.

Context is King and v5 does not change the truth of what Jesus said in v3, that the Father is the only true God.

It’s so simple, even a trinitarian can understand it.

Just because God, the Creator, created Jesus before his other creations changes absolutely nothing. Context is King and ‘son’ means a created being, offspring of the parent.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

Very few understand this and it probably deserves its own thread.

Such is the effect of culture. We are like a fish unaware that it is in water.

Well said W: this is what constant worldly programming, deep engrained instructing from a child over the centuries does to the spiritual mind. It become warped to knowing the 'echad' Father, the one cardinal LORD God presented in the OT AND THE NT. The NT does not change who our Creator is one bit, even after he begot his Messiah. He continues to be the same one individual and sole person then, today, and tomorrow.

For most folks to even contemplate to step outside their religious comfort zone and relook from scratch, who is holding their lives and the Universe together, in view of 'his' word or scripture, through zero lens, and any type of refractive mental devices, will take a miracle from the Spirit of the Father I'm afraid.

They will continue to shuffle and tap dance their way through their spiritual life thinking there are 3 and then only 3, and why not more people, that comprise God Almighty. They persist on confusing the core attributes of the one God YHWH like his word, wisdom and Spirit. And take these as personalities of god.

I know there is only one God alone and no other personality is besides him, not even his son he begot some c. 2000 years ago. Why is this not clear? Well I'll stop playing the same music for now.....

 

[ChristisGod]

Context is King and v5 does not change the truth of what Jesus said in v3, that the Father is the only true God.

It’s so simple, even a trinitarian can understand it.

Just because God, the Creator, created Jesus before his other creations changes absolutely nothing. Context is King and ‘son’ means a created being, offspring of the parent.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.

Also we see that when we search the NT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.


On behalf of seeing χριστος as the antecedent are the following arguments: (1) Although it is true that αληθινος θεος is not elsewhere referred to Christ, αληθεια is, and is so in Johannine literature (John 14:6).

29 Winer-Moulton, 195.
Further, αληθινος θεος is not a "constant.. epithet" as Winer supposes, being found only in John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20! (2) Christ is also said to be ζωη in John's writings John 11:25; 14:6; 1 John 1:1-2), an epithet nowhere else used of the Father. (3) The demonstrative pronoun, ουτος, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent.For what it is worth, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω is the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. 32 The issue cannot be decided on grammar alone. But suffice it to say here that there are no grammatical reasons for denying that αληθινος θεος is descriptive of Jesus Christ.



My top 10 biblical and exegetical reasons Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life.

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

2nd- Jesus is called Eternal Life over and over again in Johns writings

3rd- John opens up his epistle with the Eternal life(Jesus) that was with the Father in the beginning and was manifest to the disciples(1 John 1:1-5)

4th- John ends his epistle with Jesus who is eternal life and only is eternal life found in Him who is the true God.

5th- never is eternal life used of the Father alone. When the Father is included the Son is always mentioned together with the Father making them equal. Equality with the Father was not something Jesus needed to grasp at as He already possessed complete Deity as God.(Phil 2, Col 2:9)

6th- John would not leave his readers with any ambiguity warning them to guard themselves from idols(5:21) So this would be clear his reference was to those who reject Jesus as the true God. They are the idoloters and antichrists John writes of in his epistles.

7th- Jesus is also the True God and the True one in 1 John. Jesus is the true light which brings light to all men (John 1:9) Jesus is the truth (John 14:6)Jesus is the true vine (John 15:1). Jesus is the true witness of God (John 18:37) He who is true (Revelation 3:7) Jesus is the faithful and true witness (Revelation 3:14)Jesus is Lord God Almighty, Just and true are your ways(Revelation 15:3) Jesus is faithful and true(Revelation 19:11).

8th- [In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3 . . . ) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent.FWIW, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω IS the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. Wallace.

9th- Netbible- Wallace
If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to "the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.

10th- This/ He (autos)Jesus Christ (the last-named Person) is the true God


So the most logical conclusion is that it refers to Jesus as the true God. Not only is this Wallace's conclusion from Johns usage of outos but He is the closest antecedent (most times in the NT this principal holds true). Eternal Life is never used of the Father alone in John’s writings and only a couple of times does John include the Father with the Son regarding eternal life. John opens up his epistles describing the "eternal life" who was with the Father in the beginning and then ends his epistle with eternal life identifying Jesus as the true God and eternal life. John then says this in the last verse:

1 John 5:21-Guard yourselves from idols

Now why would he leave any ambiguity in verse 20 as to the identity of the true God and eternal life then turn around commanding them to protect themselves from idolatry? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless John is identifying Jesus as the true God and refuting the Gnostics of his day who denied the Incarnation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

Context is King now read John 17:5 where the Son declares He was together with the Father before creation, before the world came into existence.

hope this helps !!!

Same questions and same result you have in mind no doubt. Never learning anything on this particular subject I see.

Again, he was not with his Father God before time or the start of humanity. His father revealed his planned glory to his son that he would experience in the near future. His resurrection from death and immortality.

Speaking of context, you have completely missed the boat again, as you never provide any. This is the simple local context. You know that the Father's son was going to the cross the next day, right? He told his Father he did all the things he wanted of him, right? Now he could not wait to see/experience his (planned) glory that the Father devised in his mind/word from creation, when his son would finally be resurrected. He could not wait as an obedient human soul. Can you blame him. He was going to die for goodness sake. He was willing to die for his Father and us....Isaac was a type of Christ...

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is eternal life

Yes, through Jesus, who was sent by God, his Father, we obtain eternal life.


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
Ephesians 1:3