aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The Bible and Tradition are authoritative, according to the Bible.
http://www.catholicbible101.com/sacredtradition.htm
Free Love Issue Is Very Important To Me!
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The Bible and Tradition are authoritative, according to the Bible.
http://www.catholicbible101.com/sacredtradition.htm
Yes and The RC church speaks out to society against sin like homoseuxal pratice. The danger and warning by Christ in His NT teaching is where one thinks they know Jesus but have not tested against the scripture to make sure it is. Downplaying the importance of His testimony and sound doctrine lets Satan, who masquerades as light, give another jesus and another gospsl as though it is Jesus.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
agreed. And if I was claiming that homosexuality was acceptable behavior before God. I would be in danger of teaching false doctrine.
Hi aspen,
I've noticed I didn't acknowledge your post #77 in reply to me. Apologies...
Have you done anything to research non-Catholic authors of that period?
Hmm. This is a really interesting question!
It suggests that you don't see 'the Truth' as an absolute which was and is free to be accessed by all who approach unto God with faith in the work of His Son Jesus Christ. It is not tied to the written word, although the written word declares Him. I really don't believe the Roman Catholic Church was the sole repository of Christian knowledge (praxis) from the start of Christianity. If that's what they told you, it's not true.
The 'doctine of the Trinity' 's history, I'm sure you know, and therefore you also know that it wasn't a 'doctrine' until the challenge by Arius to the hitherto general acceptance of the way God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ appear in the writings of the apostles and others, and, in the day-to-day experience of those who know them.
As for claiming the Incarnation - which is so clearly declared by the apostle John - are you serious?
Regarding scripture, the Roman Catholic Church was so far away from its roots, that by the time Erasmus was translating, he had hoped to reform Catholicism from within. You must know that, too.
For over seven centuries (at least) Christianity existed in Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales and islands around, and for longer in other enclaves in Europe - and probably further afield even than that, separate from Catholicism, while Rome systematically tried to bring those populations under her sway, with policital (rather than spiritual) arguments. And, while the Pope claims the right/power 'to depose princes' - and his church is/was willing to kill for the sake of pre-eminence as a religious authority - it is difficult to see that the Roman church accepts God's decrees in political matters, despite that they are writ large and clear in the scriptures they claim to believe, and, the Pope claims to represent Christ Himself, on earth. It's not very credible, brother.
Calvin and Luther both had scripture to consult, and found the church of Rome's representation of the salvation of God seriously lacking in its teaching and practice. Neither the Incarnation nor the Trinity belonged to Rome.
What was important to those seeking salvation, was that they could have a personal relationship with Him through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, being freed from the bondage of sin and death, to offer their own sacrifices of praise to Him, and worship Him in spirit and in truth as Jesus promised: the priesthood of all believers. 1 Peter 2:9. This is the Christianity which had reached 'Britain' before the Roman church had organised.
Is this as close as they can get? :huh:
Well, Catholicism is in on it, and certainly in support. It's not coming from Christian scholars who know the Lord.
This goes a bit further than 'God's Grace'. I would like you hear you say that your faith is solely in Jesus Christ, and that you understand that any suggestion one must add something more - such as bearing 'hardship', or giving service, or living in poverty - is adding a stipulation which is not made in scripture.
You said to brightmorningstar,
There is no point in offering a Catholic website for that. Please show scripture to support your claim about 'Tradition'.
The Roman Catholic Church is not that keen on scripture, or it would have its version of the Bible online by now.
I've noticed I didn't acknowledge your post #77 in reply to me. Apologies...
Have you done anything to research non-Catholic authors of that period?
Hmm. This is a really interesting question!
It suggests that you don't see 'the Truth' as an absolute which was and is free to be accessed by all who approach unto God with faith in the work of His Son Jesus Christ. It is not tied to the written word, although the written word declares Him. I really don't believe the Roman Catholic Church was the sole repository of Christian knowledge (praxis) from the start of Christianity. If that's what they told you, it's not true.
The 'doctine of the Trinity' 's history, I'm sure you know, and therefore you also know that it wasn't a 'doctrine' until the challenge by Arius to the hitherto general acceptance of the way God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ appear in the writings of the apostles and others, and, in the day-to-day experience of those who know them.
As for claiming the Incarnation - which is so clearly declared by the apostle John - are you serious?
Regarding scripture, the Roman Catholic Church was so far away from its roots, that by the time Erasmus was translating, he had hoped to reform Catholicism from within. You must know that, too.
For over seven centuries (at least) Christianity existed in Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales and islands around, and for longer in other enclaves in Europe - and probably further afield even than that, separate from Catholicism, while Rome systematically tried to bring those populations under her sway, with policital (rather than spiritual) arguments. And, while the Pope claims the right/power 'to depose princes' - and his church is/was willing to kill for the sake of pre-eminence as a religious authority - it is difficult to see that the Roman church accepts God's decrees in political matters, despite that they are writ large and clear in the scriptures they claim to believe, and, the Pope claims to represent Christ Himself, on earth. It's not very credible, brother.
Calvin and Luther both had scripture to consult, and found the church of Rome's representation of the salvation of God seriously lacking in its teaching and practice. Neither the Incarnation nor the Trinity belonged to Rome.
What was important to those seeking salvation, was that they could have a personal relationship with Him through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, being freed from the bondage of sin and death, to offer their own sacrifices of praise to Him, and worship Him in spirit and in truth as Jesus promised: the priesthood of all believers. 1 Peter 2:9. This is the Christianity which had reached 'Britain' before the Roman church had organised.
Is this as close as they can get? :huh:
Well, Catholicism is in on it, and certainly in support. It's not coming from Christian scholars who know the Lord.
This goes a bit further than 'God's Grace'. I would like you hear you say that your faith is solely in Jesus Christ, and that you understand that any suggestion one must add something more - such as bearing 'hardship', or giving service, or living in poverty - is adding a stipulation which is not made in scripture.
You said to brightmorningstar,
There is no point in offering a Catholic website for that. Please show scripture to support your claim about 'Tradition'.
The Roman Catholic Church is not that keen on scripture, or it would have its version of the Bible online by now.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The point is false teachers dont know Christ, they claim they do but the false teaching shows they dont. One cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life.
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The point is false teachers dont know Christ, they claim they do but the false teaching shows they dont. One cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life.
If you are trying to label me a false teacher, you are incorrect. I have never claimed to be a teacher. I am a seeker of truth, just like many of the people who post here - I am merely writing down my thoughts and opinions as I turn them over to God. If you are claiming that I do not know God because we disagree - you are being reckless with your words.
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
Very dangerous. The Bible is not omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient. You are in real danger of making a recording of man's inspired view of God; God, Himself. Yikes!
If you are trying to label me a false teacher, you are incorrect. I have never claimed to be a teacher. I am a seeker of truth, just like many of the people who post here - I am merely writing down my thoughts and opinions as I turn them over to God. If you are claiming that I do not know God because we disagree - you are being reckless with your words.
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
Very dangerous. The Bible is not omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient. You are in real danger of making a recording of man's inspired view of God; God, Himself. Yikes!
Aspen2,
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
On the contrary, I didn’t label anyone, but whether you are a false teacher would depend on whether you are teaching contrary to the scripture. The point is one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life. Christ cannot be the truth if one doesn’t agree that the truth He claims to speak isnt the truth.
Thats the liberal argument. However we could both agree with each other and still be in error according to God’s word. We only ever say it is about agreeing with God’s word rather than each other. Where people agree with God’s word they are believers.
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
On the contrary, as the scripture shows (ie 2 Cor 11) is it very dangerous not to equate the two or one ends up with another jesus.
No one said it was, but God is and His testimony, the Biblical testifies to it, so one can only equate God with His Biblical testimony.
Yikes, the NT records Jesus as the Son giving God’s view to man, you have just relegated it to man’s view, thats humanism. Faith in Christ comes through hearing the message, when you say the message is just man’s inspired view you have attributed what man has recored as God's view to man's view. As I said one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life as coming from man's view.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
BMS,
On the contrary, I didn’t label anyone, but whether you are a false teacher would depend on whether you are teaching contrary to the scripture. The point is one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life. Christ cannot be the truth if one doesn’t agree that the truth He claims to speak isnt the truth.
note the word "If" in my post.
However we could both agree with each other and still be in error according to God’s word.
Absolutely.
We only ever say it is about agreeing with God’s word rather than each other.
Ah, so when did you start speaking for the entire Body of Christ? Sorry, but the irony is too thick not to mention - a Protestant instructing a Catholic on agreement over doctrine - now that is rich!
Where people agree with God’s word they are believers.
Sorry - you are failing sola scriptura with this statement. Christians are people who follow Christ; loving God and their neighbor. Like-minded people put aside their disagreement over doctrine and focus on living out the Christian live according to a common purpose - wait for it, Strat - love!
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
The word equate means equal. The Bible is not equal to God - it is an inspired book, not the four member of the Trinity.
On the contrary, as the scripture shows (ie 2 Cor 11) is it very dangerous not to equate the two or one ends up with another jesus.
And making the Bible the four member of the Trinity is going to stop us from making another Jesus?
No one said it was, but God is and His testimony, the Biblical testifies to it, so one can only equate God with His Biblical testimony.
You just contradicted yourself again. No one said that it was / God is equal with the Bible.
Yikes, the NT records Jesus as the Son giving God’s view to man, you have just relegated it to man’s view, thats humanism.
Oh, who wrote the Bible? God? Jesus? The Holy Spirit? Oh right, it was inspired by God and written by people.......
in·spired
1. aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: aninspired poet.
2. resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
Indeed. God used people to speak to people about who is and to let us know that He loves us and wants us to be reconciled with us. Because He used people to speak to people, the Bible is limited to the culture and experiences of the people who wrote it. The Bible is not perfect - God is perfect.
Faith in Christ comes through hearing the message, when you say the message is just man’s inspired view you have attributed what man has record as God's view to man's view. As I said one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life as coming from man's view.
We disagree.
On the contrary, I didn’t label anyone, but whether you are a false teacher would depend on whether you are teaching contrary to the scripture. The point is one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life. Christ cannot be the truth if one doesn’t agree that the truth He claims to speak isnt the truth.
note the word "If" in my post.
However we could both agree with each other and still be in error according to God’s word.
Absolutely.
We only ever say it is about agreeing with God’s word rather than each other.
Ah, so when did you start speaking for the entire Body of Christ? Sorry, but the irony is too thick not to mention - a Protestant instructing a Catholic on agreement over doctrine - now that is rich!
Where people agree with God’s word they are believers.
Sorry - you are failing sola scriptura with this statement. Christians are people who follow Christ; loving God and their neighbor. Like-minded people put aside their disagreement over doctrine and focus on living out the Christian live according to a common purpose - wait for it, Strat - love!
Thus I am equating the Bible with God, it isnt God Himself but it is His testimony so it is equated with Him (not as Him)
The word equate means equal. The Bible is not equal to God - it is an inspired book, not the four member of the Trinity.
On the contrary, as the scripture shows (ie 2 Cor 11) is it very dangerous not to equate the two or one ends up with another jesus.
And making the Bible the four member of the Trinity is going to stop us from making another Jesus?
No one said it was, but God is and His testimony, the Biblical testifies to it, so one can only equate God with His Biblical testimony.
You just contradicted yourself again. No one said that it was / God is equal with the Bible.
Yikes, the NT records Jesus as the Son giving God’s view to man, you have just relegated it to man’s view, thats humanism.
Oh, who wrote the Bible? God? Jesus? The Holy Spirit? Oh right, it was inspired by God and written by people.......
in·spired
1. aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: aninspired poet.
2. resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
Indeed. God used people to speak to people about who is and to let us know that He loves us and wants us to be reconciled with us. Because He used people to speak to people, the Bible is limited to the culture and experiences of the people who wrote it. The Bible is not perfect - God is perfect.
Faith in Christ comes through hearing the message, when you say the message is just man’s inspired view you have attributed what man has record as God's view to man's view. As I said one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life as coming from man's view.
We disagree.
Aspen2,
However, the point I was making was one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life. Christ cannot be the truth if one doesn’t agree that the truth He claims to speak isnt the truth. Do you agree?
Yikes, the NT records Jesus as the Son giving God’s view to man, you have just relegated it to man’s view, thats humanism.
Sorry I think you are in counterfit christianity.
Well done Strat.
then something must have convicted you of it being the case.
However, the point I was making was one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life. Christ cannot be the truth if one doesn’t agree that the truth He claims to speak isnt the truth. Do you agree?
The Biblical testimony speaks for the entire body of Christ. Thats the point, anyone can claim they speak for Christ but whether they do or not depends on whether is it in line with the scripture.
On the contrary the doctrine is based on scripture, different interpretations provided they are based on scripture are still in line with the Biblical testimony of God. It is therefore not about what protestants and catholics think, so much as what protestants and catholics interpret from the scripture.
Yes, but providing it is loving God and loving their neighbour according to scripture, otherwise you get the likes of the Lord’s resistance army, the likes of Westboro and LGCM whose ideas of love are not God’s.
Not necessarily. Like minded people agree on doctrine and focus on living out the Christian life according to the doctrine of common purpose. Otherwise what tells you the ideas of the Lord’s Resistance army, Westboro or LGCM are not loving apart from scripture? Cos otherwise its just your word against theirs.
I know I said equated with Him not as Him. Do you agree?
No, His testimony is not only inspired, it is also directly from Him and His testimony through the Son affirms His testimony is not a fourth person.
Suggesting the Bible is a fourth member is already another jesus.
but I didn’t say what you quoted. The Bible is His testimony it is not equal to anyone else’s testimony.
Yikes, the NT records Jesus as the Son giving God’s view to man, you have just relegated it to man’s view, thats humanism.
Sorry but some of the Bible is men recording what God said, from the Son of God. Men wrote the Bible not all is inspired by God, some is direct instruction from God.
When Jesus speaks what He hears the Father speaking He is not limited to any man’s culture or experience. Again you are not attributing the truth to God, but to man. That is humanism again.
oxymoron. The Biblical testimony says God is perfect, if you dont think the Bible is perfect then how come you are so sure of it when it says God is perfect?
So what? As I said that is irrelevant if either of us disagrees with God’s Biblical testimony. Faith in Christ comes through hearing the message, that message is the Biblical testimony. When you attribute that message just to man’s inspired view limited to culture and experience, you have denied it to God. As I said, one cant actually believe Christ is the way, truth and life if one then disputes aspects of the truth, way and life as coming from man's view.
Sorry I think you are in counterfit christianity.
Well done Strat.
Hi aspen,
Yes, it's 'limited' to the experiences of the people who wrote it. Remember though, culture is derived from experiences. For instance:
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons... 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;... 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. {both...: Heb. from man unto beast} 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
Genesis 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth [month], on the first [day] of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen... 13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first [month], the first [day] of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. 15 And God spake unto Noah, saying, 16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I.
Exodus 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. 2 And the LORD said unto him, What [is] that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. 3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: 5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. 6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow. 7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his [other] flesh.
Joshua 2:9 And she [Rahab] said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. {faint: Heb. melt} 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we had heard [these things], our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he [is] God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I think you catch my drift, without my mentioning dreams and visions and many other miracles, including the raising of a dead child to life, in the Old Testament. This is the 'primitive culture' of the people from whom we have received 'the oracles of God'. Very little compares, today, in our so-called ' modern civilisation'.
Yes, it's 'limited' to the experiences of the people who wrote it. Remember though, culture is derived from experiences. For instance:
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons... 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;... 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. {both...: Heb. from man unto beast} 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life. 16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
Genesis 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth [month], on the first [day] of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen... 13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first [month], the first [day] of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry. 14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. 15 And God spake unto Noah, saying, 16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I.
Exodus 4:1 And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. 2 And the LORD said unto him, What [is] that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. 3 And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. 4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: 5 That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. 6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow. 7 And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his [other] flesh.
Joshua 2:9 And she [Rahab] said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. {faint: Heb. melt} 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we had heard [these things], our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he [is] God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I think you catch my drift, without my mentioning dreams and visions and many other miracles, including the raising of a dead child to life, in the Old Testament. This is the 'primitive culture' of the people from whom we have received 'the oracles of God'. Very little compares, today, in our so-called ' modern civilisation'.
But when for example the NT records Jesus the Son of God speaking what He hears the Father God saying, whilst it is the experience of the writers and community, it is not limited by the writer's culture, and the revelation comes from God, not man.
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