• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I have been posting it this whole time

When nicodemus asked how these things can be 9the imperishable seed) Jesus answered that he had to be lifted on the cross, as moses raised the serpent. so that whoever believes will nto die
Imperishable seed is not the cross..it’s the Living Holy Spirit..looking to the cross, and believing Jesus died on that cross, they must be Born Again of imperishable seed the Living word of God.
The reason anyone will nto suffer the second death judgment is because of the cross..

But God will not force you to believe, you must chose

How can you not believe even though the spirit is convicting you?
That is not how we are Born Again by the Living word of God..that’s your opinion.
People do it every day, Read the book of John, People saw Jesus do things of the spirit, yet hardened their heart so hard that even raising Lazarus from the dead did nto convince them

Hence they commited the unpardonable sin
That is not how we are Born Again.
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
There is no mention of imperishable seed in this scripture @Eternally Grateful ?

How you came to the knowledge that being Born Again of imperishable seed..is the cross...it’s pretty baffling to say the least.

Short commentary.

Showing results for what does being Born Again of imperishable seed mean
Search instead for what does being Birn Again of imperishible seed mean
The above scripture is teaching us that we became born again through the avenue or channel of the Word of God. Every one of us got born again through the Living Word. That is the ingredient that gave us the new birth. And the bible calls it, “an incorruptible seed”. That means it cannot be destroyed!

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
[11] Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life
 
Last edited:

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
17,757
7,292
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
God saved us from eternal damnation, when he made us Born Again by His Living word.

Absolutely.

Faith is a gift from God a manifestation of the Spirit.biblical.

Faith is what we give to God, its ours... Not His.

See, if God caused us to believe, then He would not require us to Believe.

And He does require it...

Our sins are forgiven once God brings us to repentance...your post is not biblical, that’s why it’s confusing.

If we repent of our sins, but we dont believe in Jesus, then are we saved?

We are not.

If we are water baptized but not born again, are we saved? = NOPE>

So, the repentance that God requires is to turn from UNBELIEF, to Faith, iin Christ.


Again not biblical...we are Born Again by the Living word of God.

We are born again by the Spirit of God.
Its the same HS that created Jesus inside a Virgin's womb.


You can’t believe in God without His Spirit..impossible.

WE are led to the Truth by the Spirit of God.
A Baptist would say.>"the conviction of the Holy Spirit"...
And once we have this revelation Knowledge...once we "come to the Knowledge of the Truth" that Jesus is the Savior and we need to be saved.....the we believe or not.

If you read Hebrews chapter 6 and 10, you see Jews who know its true, but wont have it.
They KNOW, its true... they have "tasted the heavenly gift"... they have been shown by the Holy Spirit...

And they say....."NO NO NO"..

That is the "unpardonable sin" being committed... "willfully" by those HEBREWS.. (Jews).

We wouldn’t know how to have faith in Christ without His Spirit..Faith is a gift from God.


See, Faith in Christ is easy to know. ... to understand, but to BELIEVE IT....is to TRUST, and not all who know its TRUTE will trust.


No one who is Born Again by the Living Spirit..can go to hell.

You can't stop being born again.

WE can't get Jesus out of us as we are Joined To Him, Spiritually, and Eternally.
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Absolutely.



Faith is what we give to God, its ours... Not His.

See, if God caused us to believe, then He would not require us to Believe.

And He does require it...



If we repent of our sins, but we dont believe in Jesus, then are we saved?

We are not.

If we are water baptized but not born again, are we saved? = NOPE>

So, the repentance that God requires is to turn from UNBELIEF, to Faith, iin Christ.




We are born again by the Spirit of God.
Its the same HS that created Jesus inside a Virgin's womb.




WE are led to the Truth by the Spirit of God.
A Baptist would say.>"the conviction of the Holy Spirit"...
And once we have this revelation Knowledge...once we "come to the Knowledge of the Truth" that Jesus is the Savior and we need to be saved.....the we believe or not.

If you read Hebrews chapter 6 and 10, you see Jews who know its true, but wont have it.
They KNOW, its true... they have "tasted the heavenly gift"... they have been shown by the Holy Spirit...

And they say....."NO NO NO"..

That is the "unpardonable sin" being committed... "willfully" by those HEBREWS.. (Jews).




See, Faith in Christ is easy to know. ... to understand, but to BELIEVE IT....is to TRUST, and not all who know its TRUTE will trust.




You can't stop being born again.

WE can't get Jesus out of us as we are Joined To Him, Spiritually, and Eternally.
Behold, I see no point in going over the same ground....I believe what I believe you believe what you believe.

Best we leave it there....we are most definitely on different levels of spiritual understanding in this area, that’s for sure...God Bless and happy posting.xx
 
Last edited:

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
17,423
9,345
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Imperishable seed is not the cross..it’s the Living Holy Spirit..looking to the cross, and believing Jesus died on that cross, they must be Born Again of imperishable seed the Living word of God.
your born again of imperishable seed WHEN you believe.


That is not how we are Born Again by the Living word of God..that’s your opinion.
Thats your opinion
That is not how we are Born Again.
Then Jesus lied.
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
your born again of imperishable seed WHEN you believe.
Not biblical..imperishable seed is not the cross...we are not Born Again of the cross...very confusing, is your words...you can’t believe in Jesus in our spirit, without being Born Again of imperishable seed...the Spirit brings the truth of Gods Living word Alive in our hearts/ spirit....which is backed up in Gods written word.
Thats your opinion

Then Jesus lied.
The cross does not make us Born Again...the cross is needed in the death and resurrection of Jesus..that’s the only way we can become Born Again.

We become Born Again by the Living Spirit Of God..we need both.

The cross + the Living Spirit Of God...when we become Born Again in our spirit..that is the Living spiritual rebirth, that only God can do.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
17,423
9,345
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not biblical..imperishable seed is not the cross...we are not Born Again of the cross...very confusing, is your words...you can’t believe in Jesus in our spirit, without being Born Again of imperishable seed...the Spirit brings the truth of Gods Living word Alive in our hearts/ spirit....which is backed up in Gods written word.
Your not born again UNTIL you recieve the cross.

What do you think your saved from?
The cross does not make us Born Again...the cross is needed in the death and resurrection of Jesus..that’s the only way we can become Born Again.

We become Born Again by the Living Spirit Of God..we need both.

The cross + the Living Spirit Of God...when we become Born Again in our spirit..that is the Living spiritual rebirth, that only God can do.
You almost got it

Yes, we need borh.

But GOD WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO TRUST THAT.. He requires you to recieve it

But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God. to those who BELIEVE in his name!
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Your not born again UNTIL you recieve the cross.

What do you think your saved from?

You almost got it

Yes, we need borh.

But GOD WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO TRUST THAT.. He requires you to recieve it

But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God. to those who BELIEVE in his name!
Your not born again UNTIL you recieve the cross.
Not biblical..we are Born Again by the Spirit of God, biblical.
What do you think your saved from?

You almost got it

Yes, we need borh.

But GOD WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO TRUST THAT.. He requires you to recieve it
Not biblical...
But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right to become children of God. to those who BELIEVE in his name!
Once again that is not saying how we are Born Of The Spirit...that is your own understanding of how you believe you have been Born Of The Spirit..


You can only believe in the Name of Jesus by His witness the Holy Spirit, when he makes us Born Again of imperishable seed..then we have the indwelling Holy Spirit in our heart..who witnesses Gods truth to our heart all day every day.

We receive the Spirit Of Jesus..we don’t receive the cross into our heart...not biblical.

The cross was needed in order to receive the Holy Spirit.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
17,423
9,345
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not biblical

Not biblical...

Once again that is not saying how we are Born Of The Spirit...that is your own understanding of how you believe you have been Born Of The Spirit..


You can only believe in the Name of Jesus by His witness the Holy Spirit, when he makes us Born Again of imperishable seed..then we have the indwelling Holy Spsee here we go again

You have no fact. You just give your opinion.

I will take what the wor4d says, You continue to believe the way you do.

You want to follow calvinism. feel free.. Thats on you
 

Ritajanice

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2023
8,586
4,972
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
You have no fact. You just give your opinion.

I will take what the wor4d says, You continue to believe the way you do.

You want to follow calvinism. feel free.. Thats on you
That’s your opinion of me.and an assumption that I follow Calvin...I follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and will continue to do so,

I will leave it there as like Behold we are on different levels of spiritual understanding.

No point going over the same old ground that before we know it, we’re caught up in it.

Enjoy the rest of your day and happy posting.xx
 

Prycejosh1987

Member
May 20, 2024
96
43
18
37
Balsall Heath
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I believe that all have sinned. Where we draw the line is how often we sin. We can always expect to sin, but i believe we need to constantly say sorry and persistent in doing it less and less as time goes on. This goes for all forms of sin. Lust has a boundary which is higher than other forms of sin. This is probably the reason why masturbation is not included in the bible which is odd. But stealing offers nothing good when a person can work, and murder is not a good thing when we can just let go of a bad past. Lying is bad because it causes more problems than it solves, etc. Just asking asking for forgiveness to keep the relationship with God in tact.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,849
4,077
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Predestination According to Demonic John Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that God would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death."., (Just for being born).

So, according to Calvin's theology, some of your family were "pre-chosen" by God to burn in the Lake of Fire, before they were even born.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See that Reader? ??

That is the Demonic John Calvin teaching that before some are born, God has "decreed" that they are born only to burn in the Lake of FIRE. = pre-destined.

"Pre-destined by GOD, to go to Hell, then the Lake of Fire"...

See,..... the issue with this doctrine of devil's is MANY.... as this hellish doctrine is (T.U.L.I.P) LEGION... and what you have to SEE.. .Reader... is that all of us are EQUAL, regarding originally being a SINNER.

Why? "Because ALL HAVE SINNED".

This is why "Jesus came into the world TO SAVE SINNERS"< not the "elect only" as Demonic "TULIP" & Calvinism Teaches.

Calvinism Abuses God, willfully..= by falsely accusing Him of causing people to NOT BELIEVE... As they are not "chosen" to believe.
They are "pre-destined into ..(FORCED BY GOD))...= Unbelief".., .is what this DEVIL Teaches people to Believe.

So, here is how THEOLOGICALLY INSANE John Calvinism is...

Reader, ....

Unbelievers go to Hell because they never Believed in Jesus, were never born again, and die.... so God judges them... John 3:36, after they die., for their Christ REJECTION....

So, if God is causing them NOT to Believe, ..as the demonic John Calvin teaches... then How can GOD be just, honest, true, and right, if He decided they can't BELIEVE in Jesus, before they were born...... and then after they, you, me, are here on earth, and we die.... God judges us into eternal damnation, and HE is the reason we could not believe. !!

Do you see how CALVINISM accuses God of being some sort of cosmic psychopath, who wont let you believe in Jesus, then sends you to hell after you die, for "not BELIEVING", as you were not 'chosen/pre-destined to believe".,,. according to the Theological Blasphemy of John Calvin.

His Theology is OF THE DEVIL.
Its a CANCER on the Body of Christ.

Don't believe it reader.
Avoid people who teach it.
Don't let them get to your family.
And if you have been infected with demonic Calvinism, then simply realize that God's Grace, that is the Cross of Christ, is not Limited in any Way... as its "The GIFT of Salvation" to ALL who will believe.
Well you make another slanderous allegation and yet you refuse to quote Calvin in saying he taught double predestination.

Now if you would quote Calvin when you accuse him, you could have some credibiblity. Until then....hmmx1:
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
17,757
7,292
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Well you make another slanderous allegation

Not at all.

And as i was talking to you previously, about a fact of Calvinism- Tulip..... that all who are deceived by it, do not really deeply consider.

Its the "ugly reality" regarding this major cult teaching.

Its very simple.
Calvin-Tulip teach that some are "pre-destined" to burn in the Lake of Fire, as there is no other eternal option available, as Calvin-Tulip teach that GOD does not choose some to Believe so that they can go to Heaven, so they have no choice but to burn in the Lake of Fire.

Now, Calvinism-Tulip does not teach, never did teach, and never will teach..... that ENTIRE FAMILIES are all "pre-destined".

So, Calvinist - Tulip person... = that means that some in your family, are - pre-destined by God, to not be able to believe in Jesus, and so, they will burn in the lake of fire.
Now...Who is it in your family that Calvin-Tulip = has predestined to not be chosen to believe,???? As those..... will burn in the Lake of Fire, according to Calvinism-TULIP = "Doctrine of devils." Hebrews 13:9
And don't try to lie and say..."oh, all of my family are pre-destined".

Sorry no, that LIE wont FLY..

So, that's the bottom line, and if you are going to believe this JUNK< then we are going to talk about what i just showed you.

See, Calvinists, want to ruin forums and corrupt a believer's faith with this Doctrine, but they dont want to deal with the Bottom line of this putrid doctrine, as then they have to talk about who in their family is PREDESTINED BY GOD to burn in the Lake of Fire.

= So, there is "Calvinism-Tulip"...

God did not create it, Paul did not teach it.., and so anyone who can realize just how demonic is this DOCTRINE should despise it.

Calvinism will get you killed.....because it'll cause you to believe that God predestined you to get sick, and then you wont be able to pray for healing, as you'll believe God "put it on you" Himself.... (Predestined)... And in some cases, if God does not heal you, you're dead.
So, Calvinism - Tulip can get you Killed.

And according to Calvinism - TULIP some of your family will go to HELL and then the Lake of Fire, and they had no choice but to GO., as they were "born for this".
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,972
1,115
113
77
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,849
4,077
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,972
1,115
113
77
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well thank you for that quote! I did not realize Calvin held to double predestination! I would totally disagree with Him on that point.

I believe on ly the saved are predestined and the rest are destined by nature.
I have some additional info for you on Calvin but will need to be in the next thread so as to not confue with this one

Let me ask you a question...

You believe only the saved are predestined..... meaning that someone who learns the truth at a point in their life... possibly having been denied them due to birth, or life circumstances, or whatever... cannot be saved.

Lets look at some verses in the holy Book, and I want you to consider how they are stated.
Granted... these are more current wordings then Koine Greek or Aramaic... but then people are basing their own salvations on more current wordings, now aren't they?

Romans 8:
28 And we know that [k]God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

(For those who are called according to His purpose... To me that does not say everyone who has been predestined, it says those who are called for something specific. What did God say to Jeremiah? “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” )

( And what about David? Big, BIG, plans were in store for him . Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.)

29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

( those whom He foreknew, He predestined says to me that Certain people would become conformed to the image of His Son, so He (His Son) would be firstborn among many brethren. To me this says people like the apostles, people who would teach, people who would preach, people who would evangelize, people who would write the scriptures, yada, yada, yada and so on. This does not say to me John Q. Public or the McCoys over the Hatfields.)

30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

( Again...."and these whom He predestined, He also called; " seeming says that those specifically predestined had something they needed to do for God. )

I like the way Got Questions phrases things.... What does it mean that God predestined those He foreknew (Romans 8:29)? | GotQuestions.org

The Bible teaches that God foreknows and predestines His children, and this presents some challenging questions regarding whether people can choose—or does God’s sovereignty preclude human ability to choose? Historically, the Calvinist position has emphasized God’s sovereignty over human choice, while the Arminian position elevates human choice over God’s sovereignty. These two theological traditions attempt to resolve the perceived tension between human choice and God’s choice. The Bible makes things a bit simpler than do the two traditions.

The passages in the Bible that address the relationship of God’s sovereignty to human choice do not send us to door number 1 or door number 2, but to a third door. One thing we learn about God, if He predestined those He foreknew, is that God is sovereign; predestination is a theological fact. But we also learn in the Scriptures that people are accountable for what they choose. Mary is commended for her choice (Luke 10:42), and Moses is commended for his (Hebrews 11:24–25). Paul made a choice about whom he would serve with (Acts 15:40). The Scriptures are full of people who make choices; at the same time, they are also full of statements affirming that God’s will trumps human will (for example, Romans 9:16).

One theological option is that God is sovereign, and people really don’t have choice. Another suggests that people choose; thus, God can’t exercise His sovereignty over human choice. The third option is simply that both are true—God is completely in control, and humanity makes choices and is completely accountable for those choices. The Bible does not present these as irreconcilable truths (as theological traditions sometimes do). We learn that, if God predestined those He foreknew, He both knows His creation before it exists and He determines important things about His creation. If God is great enough to be the Creator of all, then He is not stumped by the mutual existence of His sovereignty and human volition, choice, and responsibility.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2023
1,972
1,115
113
77
SW PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well thank you for that quote! I did not realize Calvin held to double predestination! I would totally disagree with Him on that point.

I believe on ly the saved are predestined and the rest are destined by nature.
Ah, but you are not the self professed prophet that Calvin claimed to be.

When I was of the quasi opinion that predestination was fact I knew nothing... and then I looked at my church beliefs... NOT that they were taught but they were assumed.... based on what I found out actually just a few years ago and I was shocked that they actually fairly accurately quoted Calvin in their West Minster Confession of Faith.
The Westminster Confession came into being about 100 years after Calvin, so they copied him. There have been a number of changeds to it over the years but the Evangelical Presbyterian Church still uses Calvoins wording on Double predestination, though they do not call it that.

But this should be known about Calvin especially. Bolding and color changes are mine for emphasis.


John Calvin’s authority as a prophet​

By Jon Balserak​


For some, it was no surprise to see a book claiming that John Calvin believed he was a prophet. This reaction arose from the fact that they had already thought he was crazy and this just served to further prove the point. One thing to say in favor of their reaction is that at least they are taking the claim seriously; they perceive correctly its gravity: Calvin believed that he spoke for God; that to disagree with him was to disagree with the Almighty ipso facto.

The belief may, of course, appear utterly astonishing and bizarre to us today. While I’m sympathetic with such astonishment, I don’t share it. This is not necessarily because I believe Calvin was a prophet. It’s rather because I know him well enough to know that such a belief is entirely in keeping with his character and I suppose I’ve grown accustomed to it. Most of what comes out of his mouth or flows from his pen carries with it, it seems patently clear to me, a prophetic tone and energy. There’s no question in my mind that he held that the heavens themselves opened when he opened his mouth.

I have friends who ask with some chagrin: “didn’t Calvin feel the same sense of utter uncertainty, confusion, and awkwardness with respect to his own place in the universe that people in the twenty-first century do? Wasn’t he aware of his own weaknesses?” If so, the logic follows, how could he have become convinced that he was a divine messenger since this assumes a certain sense of faultlessness? For one of us to believe ourselves a prophet seems impossible, so, what of Calvin? Didn’t his inner reservations and neuroses weigh on his self-conception and convince him that he couldn’t possibly be the mouthpiece of the Divine? My answer is a simple “no.” I don’t think he believed that he erred in his service of God. Ever.

John Calvin by Hans Holbein the Younger. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.
John Calvin by Hans Holbein the Younger. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.
Let us recall that it’s Calvin who indicted the greatest theologians with the charge that they had mixed hay with gold, stubble with silver, and wood with precious stones (a reference to the Apostle Paul’s warning to those who had corrupted their labors in God’s service in 1 Corinthians 3: 15). He indicted Cyprian, Ambrose, Augustine, and some from what he referred to as more recent times, such as Gregory and Bernard. He said of these individuals that they could only be saved on the condition that God wipe away their ignorance and the stain which corrupted their work. They could only be saved as through fire. He even said this of Augustine, the Theologian par excellence for everyone in Early Modern Europe. Let us recall as well that Calvin could write in 1562, just two years before he died, that if anyone were his enemy, then they were the enemies of Christ. He goes on in this writing, entitled Responsio ad Balduini Convicia, to say that he had never taken up a position out of a hostile personal motive or being prompted by spite. He insists, in fact, in language that is astounding to read that anyone who is his enemy feels this way about him because they oppose the good of the church and they hate godly teaching. This is Calvin. This is the prophet; the one to whom the mantle of Elijah had been passed.

The natural question to ask at this point is whether Calvin believed that his writings should be added to the canon of Scripture? It might seem only logical, according to what I’m arguing, that he did. However it would, of course, be extremely difficult to justify such a claim. But I don’t think that’s all that can be said on the question. For there is a logic to the idea that not only Calvin but also Zwingli, Luther, Knox, and others who believed themselves raised up as prophets might have thought this. There are, moreover, numerous vocational, temperamental, theological, strategic, psychological, doctrinal, and relational reasons that would need to be taken into account before drawing a conclusion one way or the other on the question. I don’t put it out of the realm of possibility that Calvin could have believed this, at least at some level. He did, after all, tell his fellow ministers on his death bed that they were to “change nothing,” suggesting that the foundation he had laid was perfect and, thus, that the repository representing that foundation—namely, his biblical commentaries, lectures, theological treatises, and magnum opus, The Institutes of the Christian Religion—should serve as the origin from which the Christian church was to be rebuilt. So I would not be utterly shocked if he did, in fact, believe that his oeuvre should be made part of the canon of Scripture. Unfortunately, we will never know.

Jon Balserak is currently Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Bristol. He is an historian of Renaissance and Early Modern Europe, particularly France and the Swiss Confederation. He also works on textual scholarship, electronic editing and digital editions. His latest book is John Calvin as Sixteenth Century Prophet (OUP, 2014).

And this: https://frbible.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/John-Calvin-the-Reformer.pdf

"THE LIFE, TIMES, AND THEOLOGICAL METHOD OF JOHN CALVIN"

Has more info on the man then you likely will ever want.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,849
4,077
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have some additional info for you on Calvin but will need to be in the next thread so as to not confue with this one

Let me ask you a question...

You believe only the saved are predestined..... meaning that someone who learns the truth at a point in their life... possibly having been denied them due to birth, or life circumstances, or whatever... cannot be saved.

Lets look at some verses in the holy Book, and I want you to consider how they are stated.
Granted... these are more current wordings then Koine Greek or Aramaic... but then people are basing their own salvations on more current wordings, now aren't they?

Romans 8:
28 And we know that [k]God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

(For those who are called according to His purpose... To me that does not say everyone who has been predestined, it says those who are called for something specific. What did God say to Jeremiah? “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” )

( And what about David? Big, BIG, plans were in store for him . Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.)


29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

( those whom He foreknew, He predestined says to me that Certain people would become conformed to the image of His Son, so He (His Son) would be firstborn among many brethren. To me this says people like the apostles, people who would teach, people who would preach, people who would evangelize, people who would write the scriptures, yada, yada, yada and so on. This does not say to me John Q. Public or the McCoys over the Hatfields.)

30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

( Again...."and these whom He predestined, He also called; " seeming says that those specifically predestined had something they needed to do for God. )

I like the way Got Questions phrases things.... What does it mean that God predestined those He foreknew (Romans 8:29)? | GotQuestions.org

The Bible teaches that God foreknows and predestines His children, and this presents some challenging questions regarding whether people can choose—or does God’s sovereignty preclude human ability to choose? Historically, the Calvinist position has emphasized God’s sovereignty over human choice, while the Arminian position elevates human choice over God’s sovereignty. These two theological traditions attempt to resolve the perceived tension between human choice and God’s choice. The Bible makes things a bit simpler than do the two traditions.

The passages in the Bible that address the relationship of God’s sovereignty to human choice do not send us to door number 1 or door number 2, but to a third door. One thing we learn about God, if He predestined those He foreknew, is that God is sovereign; predestination is a theological fact. But we also learn in the Scriptures that people are accountable for what they choose. Mary is commended for her choice (Luke 10:42), and Moses is commended for his (Hebrews 11:24–25). Paul made a choice about whom he would serve with (Acts 15:40). The Scriptures are full of people who make choices; at the same time, they are also full of statements affirming that God’s will trumps human will (for example, Romans 9:16).

One theological option is that God is sovereign, and people really don’t have choice. Another suggests that people choose; thus, God can’t exercise His sovereignty over human choice. The third option is simply that both are true—God is completely in control, and humanity makes choices and is completely accountable for those choices. The Bible does not present these as irreconcilable truths (as theological traditions sometimes do). We learn that, if God predestined those He foreknew, He both knows His creation before it exists and He determines important things about His creation. If God is great enough to be the Creator of all, then He is not stumped by the mutual existence of His sovereignty and human volition, choice, and responsibility.
Well all that are saved are the called according to His purposes:

Ephesians 2:8-10

King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Just the roman verse alone would open a door for just a few, but all believers are justified, called, predestined and foreknown!

Ephesians 1:4-5

King James Version

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Got questions errs in that when defending human choices- they exemplify day to day choices of activity while predestination and foreknowledge deal with salvation and eternal destiny alone.

The saved by right choices can obtain greater reward.

The lost by bad choices can receive greater punishment throughout eternity.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
13,849
4,077
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ah, but you are not the self professed prophet that Calvin claimed to be.

When I was of the quasi opinion that predestination was fact I knew nothing... and then I looked at my church beliefs... NOT that they were taught but they were assumed.... based on what I found out actually just a few years ago and I was shocked that they actually fairly accurately quoted Calvin in their West Minster Confession of Faith.
The Westminster Confession came into being about 100 years after Calvin, so they copied him. There have been a number of changeds to it over the years but the Evangelical Presbyterian Church still uses Calvoins wording on Double predestination, though they do not call it that.

But this should be known about Calvin especially. Bolding and color changes are mine for emphasis.


John Calvin’s authority as a prophet​

By Jon Balserak​


For some, it was no surprise to see a book claiming that John Calvin believed he was a prophet. This reaction arose from the fact that they had already thought he was crazy and this just served to further prove the point. One thing to say in favor of their reaction is that at least they are taking the claim seriously; they perceive correctly its gravity: Calvin believed that he spoke for God; that to disagree with him was to disagree with the Almighty ipso facto.

The belief may, of course, appear utterly astonishing and bizarre to us today. While I’m sympathetic with such astonishment, I don’t share it. This is not necessarily because I believe Calvin was a prophet. It’s rather because I know him well enough to know that such a belief is entirely in keeping with his character and I suppose I’ve grown accustomed to it. Most of what comes out of his mouth or flows from his pen carries with it, it seems patently clear to me, a prophetic tone and energy. There’s no question in my mind that he held that the heavens themselves opened when he opened his mouth.

I have friends who ask with some chagrin: “didn’t Calvin feel the same sense of utter uncertainty, confusion, and awkwardness with respect to his own place in the universe that people in the twenty-first century do? Wasn’t he aware of his own weaknesses?” If so, the logic follows, how could he have become convinced that he was a divine messenger since this assumes a certain sense of faultlessness? For one of us to believe ourselves a prophet seems impossible, so, what of Calvin? Didn’t his inner reservations and neuroses weigh on his self-conception and convince him that he couldn’t possibly be the mouthpiece of the Divine? My answer is a simple “no.” I don’t think he believed that he erred in his service of God. Ever.

John Calvin by Hans Holbein the Younger. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.
John Calvin by Hans Holbein the Younger. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.
Let us recall that it’s Calvin who indicted the greatest theologians with the charge that they had mixed hay with gold, stubble with silver, and wood with precious stones (a reference to the Apostle Paul’s warning to those who had corrupted their labors in God’s service in 1 Corinthians 3: 15). He indicted Cyprian, Ambrose, Augustine, and some from what he referred to as more recent times, such as Gregory and Bernard. He said of these individuals that they could only be saved on the condition that God wipe away their ignorance and the stain which corrupted their work. They could only be saved as through fire. He even said this of Augustine, the Theologian par excellence for everyone in Early Modern Europe. Let us recall as well that Calvin could write in 1562, just two years before he died, that if anyone were his enemy, then they were the enemies of Christ. He goes on in this writing, entitled Responsio ad Balduini Convicia, to say that he had never taken up a position out of a hostile personal motive or being prompted by spite. He insists, in fact, in language that is astounding to read that anyone who is his enemy feels this way about him because they oppose the good of the church and they hate godly teaching. This is Calvin. This is the prophet; the one to whom the mantle of Elijah had been passed.

The natural question to ask at this point is whether Calvin believed that his writings should be added to the canon of Scripture? It might seem only logical, according to what I’m arguing, that he did. However it would, of course, be extremely difficult to justify such a claim. But I don’t think that’s all that can be said on the question. For there is a logic to the idea that not only Calvin but also Zwingli, Luther, Knox, and others who believed themselves raised up as prophets might have thought this. There are, moreover, numerous vocational, temperamental, theological, strategic, psychological, doctrinal, and relational reasons that would need to be taken into account before drawing a conclusion one way or the other on the question. I don’t put it out of the realm of possibility that Calvin could have believed this, at least at some level. He did, after all, tell his fellow ministers on his death bed that they were to “change nothing,” suggesting that the foundation he had laid was perfect and, thus, that the repository representing that foundation—namely, his biblical commentaries, lectures, theological treatises, and magnum opus, The Institutes of the Christian Religion—should serve as the origin from which the Christian church was to be rebuilt. So I would not be utterly shocked if he did, in fact, believe that his oeuvre should be made part of the canon of Scripture. Unfortunately, we will never know.



And this: https://frbible.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/John-Calvin-the-Reformer.pdf

"THE LIFE, TIMES, AND THEOLOGICAL METHOD OF JOHN CALVIN"

Has more info on the man then you likely will ever want.
Well let me say it this way:

Luther, Calvin, Svwingli, Hus, Tyndale, and all the other reformers, were men and many who comment on the reformers were and are men.

I hail them all as heroes for bringing the Word of God out of darkness and making it available to all men.

I agree with all reformers on many points and disagree with all the reformers on many points, just as I do with godly men today.

None of us has a 100% lock on all the Word of God!
As for my "supposed Calvinism" I have repeatedly on the threads that I accept the five points as biblical. NOt all of what Calvin teaches, just the five points.

Everything I believe about the Word (after 50 years of study) I believe is correct! Does that make me 100% correct? Probably not! I am always willing to change my belief in an area if one can bring a stronger and better argument from SCripture and not logic or reason or Christian philosophizing.