Hi aspen,
I've noticed I didn't acknowledge your post #77 in reply to me. Apologies...
It was through the Catholic Church and Catholic authors that I learned about the 1500 year period in between.
Have you done anything to research non-Catholic authors of that period?
Really? So it doesn't matter that Protestantism borrowed the doctrine of the Trinity and the Incarnation or the canon of scripture, which dictated their sole means of authority....?
Hmm. This is a really interesting question!
It suggests that you don't see 'the Truth' as an
absolute which was and is free to be accessed by all who approach unto God with faith in the work of His Son Jesus Christ. It is not tied to the written word, although the written word declares Him. I really don't believe the Roman Catholic Church was the sole repository of Christian knowledge (praxis) from the start of Christianity. If that's what they told you, it's not true.
The 'doctine of the Trinity' 's history, I'm sure you know, and therefore you also know that it wasn't a 'doctrine' until the challenge by Arius to the hitherto general acceptance of the way God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ appear in the writings of the apostles and others, and, in the day-to-day experience of those who know them.
As for claiming the Incarnation - which is so clearly declared by the apostle John - are you serious?
Regarding scripture, the Roman Catholic Church was so far away from
its roots, that by the time Erasmus was translating, he had hoped to reform Catholicism from within. You must know that, too.
For over seven centuries (at least) Christianity existed in Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales and islands around, and for longer in other enclaves in Europe - and probably further afield even than that,
separate from Catholicism, while Rome systematically tried to bring those populations under her sway, with policital (rather than spiritual) arguments. And, while the Pope claims the right/power 'to depose princes' - and his church is/was willing to kill for the sake of pre-eminence as a religious authority - it is difficult to see that the Roman church accepts God's decrees in political matters, despite that they are writ large and clear in the scriptures they claim to believe, and, the Pope claims to represent Christ Himself, on earth. It's not very credible, brother.
All of these things ideas are now 'ineffectual' without Luther/Calvin/etc?
Calvin and Luther both had scripture to consult, and found the church of Rome's representation of the salvation of God seriously lacking in its teaching and practice. Neither the Incarnation nor the Trinity belonged to Rome.
What was important to those seeking salvation, was that they could have a personal relationship with Him through the blood and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, being freed from the bondage of sin and death, to offer their own sacrifices of praise to Him, and worship Him in spirit and in truth as Jesus promised: the priesthood of all believers.
1 Peter 2:9. This is the Christianity which had reached 'Britain'
before the Roman church had organised.
Catholics and Protestants agree that salvation comes from God's Grace.
Is this as close as they can get? :huh:
Until the last thirty years, the English and other language Bible translations declared the word of God clearly enough for every generation to find salvation - who had access to a Bible, or who were brought in on the preaching of truth - but now, thanks to ancient interference from those who desire to withhold truth, Bibles are varying more and more - enough to keep souls from finding salvation, apart from sound preaching.
Sounds like a conspiracy! You surely do not blame that on Catholicism do you?
Well, Catholicism is in on it, and certainly in support. It's not coming from Christian scholars who know the Lord.
My faith is in Jesus Christ.
This goes a bit further than 'God's Grace'. I would like you hear you say that your faith is
solely in Jesus Christ, and that you understand that
any suggestion one must add something more - such as bearing 'hardship', or giving service, or living in poverty - is
adding a stipulation which is
not made in scripture.
You said to brightmorningstar,
The Bible and Tradition are authoritative, according to the Bible.
There is no point in offering a Catholic website for that. Please show
scripture to support your claim about 'Tradition'.
The Roman Catholic Church is not
that keen on scripture, or it would have its version of the Bible online by now.