Lambano
Well-Known Member
Remember, I come from the Protestant side of the family tree. By "removing our sins" and "washing us clean", do you mean "forgiving our sins", or "removing the desire to sin", or something else?
From Saint to sinner, is it possible?
- Thread starter Jay Ross
- Start date
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I can't argue with that, but I maintain that when Jesus said, "Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand," he wasn't telling us to sin.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
When does this happen?
[EDIT] I remember you said, "God is in control of that miracle". So it could happen in this life, or if not, in the next.
Yes, the Catholic Mass that I follow says that we desire his spirit to be with us because we are not worthy of the body and blood. And that seems correct to me. I'm not sure about it making it easier to obey the commandments being cleansed with the blood of the lamb. It is something God revealed to me that I can't find in scripture.
And does not use a barb wire canoe to go paddling in.
From Saint to sinner, is it possible?
OP ^
No.
Men are called to “become saints”.
Men have freewill.
Men may hear their calling, and reject it.
Men may hear, and “try out” their calling. “Called Tasting”.
Men who are “tasting”, Continue by their “own power”.
Men may reject their “tasting”. “Called spitting it out”.
Men may hear their calling, and “accept” it. “Called Eating”.
Men who “eat”, are the saints, Kept by the “Power of God IN them”, ( ie OSAS).
Heb 7
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP ^
No.
Men are called to “become saints”.
Men have freewill.
Men may hear their calling, and reject it.
Men may hear, and “try out” their calling. “Called Tasting”.
Men who are “tasting”, Continue by their “own power”.
Men may reject their “tasting”. “Called spitting it out”.
Men may hear their calling, and “accept” it. “Called Eating”.
Men who “eat”, are the saints, Kept by the “Power of God IN them”, ( ie OSAS).
Heb 7
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Glory to God,
Taken
IS Ez. 18 relevant on this topic?
Ezek. 18:24: - 24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die {the second death}.
The chapter speaks of the second death and also of sinners who have turned away from their evil and repented, shall no longer die the second death but they shall now live in eternity.
Believers, (while they ARE believing) are accounted “righteous”.
They ARE righteous FOR believing.
Because they ARE Believing.......the Lord IS “WITH” them.
Believers CAN Fall away.
When a believer Falls Away he has “committed iniquity”.
I have recently posted several comments on this topic, it’s called “TASTING” the Word of God.....and then “Spitting it out”.
When a man is no LONGER believing, he is no Longer “WiTH” the Lord.....and the Lord is NO LONGER......”WITH” them.
^ That IS possible, Because the man is KEEPING or LOSING “BELIEF”, by the mans “own Power”.
^ There are WARNINGS, for men to BEWARE of Falling Aways....
BECAUSE, men Routinely respond to, go along with INFLUENCES of this world.
^ That is NOT a man having Received Salvation.
ALL men who have “NOT” Received their Salvation (believers or not), are always at Risk of Losing their Salvation.
Jesus’ REMEDY for a man To Receive and KEEP his Salvation (BY...the POWER of God IN him).... is a man that IS Converted, “IN” Christ, and the Spirit of God IS IN that man....and FOREVER the Lord God will BE “WITH” that man.
That man CAN NEVER Fall Away. (Ie OSAS).
Ezek gives some knowledge on the topic of Conversion.
Ezek 11:
- [19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
- [31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
- [26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
This thread is not about OSAS, or about a "righteous" person who has turned away from God being considered not saved at all.
King David was considered a righteous man but he turned away from God and because the nation loved David more than they loved God, they too had turned away from God. Around eight years after David's adultery with Bathsheba God challenged King David for stealing the hearts of the nation from Him by acting God like in what he had done. Eight years after turning away from God to begin acting God like, King David could not recognise his sin as he considered himself righteous until Nathan the prophet told him that the person who had taken the little lamb from the old person was David himself.
The crossing of the line from being subjected to God's will happens so easily that we do not see that we begin to act God like in our lives. As we are told in Ez. 18 all the righteousness of a righteous man is wiped away when a righteous turns away from God and sins.
Now if God considers that a righteous man can sin and turn away from Him, why do you believe that a "saved" man cannot still sin in the presence of God and turn away from God's will for that person.
Like King David, should not all "righteous" people keep a short account with God of their "unintentional" sins by being repentant of their "unintentional" sins before God and throwing themselves upon the great mercy of God? Acting God like is idolatrous sin and worship where we worship ourselves and our "powers" of acting "god like." This line is often crossed with good intentions.
Shalom
King David was considered a righteous man but he turned away from God and because the nation loved David more than they loved God, they too had turned away from God. Around eight years after David's adultery with Bathsheba God challenged King David for stealing the hearts of the nation from Him by acting God like in what he had done. Eight years after turning away from God to begin acting God like, King David could not recognise his sin as he considered himself righteous until Nathan the prophet told him that the person who had taken the little lamb from the old person was David himself.
The crossing of the line from being subjected to God's will happens so easily that we do not see that we begin to act God like in our lives. As we are told in Ez. 18 all the righteousness of a righteous man is wiped away when a righteous turns away from God and sins.
Now if God considers that a righteous man can sin and turn away from Him, why do you believe that a "saved" man cannot still sin in the presence of God and turn away from God's will for that person.
Like King David, should not all "righteous" people keep a short account with God of their "unintentional" sins by being repentant of their "unintentional" sins before God and throwing themselves upon the great mercy of God? Acting God like is idolatrous sin and worship where we worship ourselves and our "powers" of acting "god like." This line is often crossed with good intentions.
Shalom
Amen to your entire post!
One thing only that I would add . . .
2 Peter 1:4 KJV
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Our faith would be meaningless but for His precious promises.
Much love!
You already have that power in the indwelling Holy Spirit.
But be it to you according to your faith . . . trust that Jesus truly has in fact freed you from the guilt AND power of sin.
Much love!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
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