From Saint to sinner, is it possible?
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In normal life when a child is adopted it will always legally belongs to it's adopted parents, just as if it had been born naturally to them. Get where I'm going with this? Once we are adopted into God's family through spiritual re-birth we become His and will always be His. And heirs with Jesus our brother.
I never heard of OSAS until I joined forums like these. It is something that typically isn't taught in Orthodox churches. I think it's a new age teaching. Jesus seems pretty hard on the sinners in the bible and so was John the Revelator and yet he was kind also. The apostles are seen taking the same views. Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 21:7-8, Matthew 24:12-13, Matthew 7:20-23.
The proper teaching is that we cannot save ourselves, so we are saved by God thru grace if we repent. But our works are not what saves us, yet evil works can condemn us. And sinners that humble themselves before God can be saved. Luke 18:9-14, 1 John 1:9.
The proper teaching is that we cannot save ourselves, so we are saved by God thru grace if we repent. But our works are not what saves us, yet evil works can condemn us. And sinners that humble themselves before God can be saved. Luke 18:9-14, 1 John 1:9.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
If it were possible, I suppose it would look like the Prodigal Son who acts like his Father is dead, takes his inheritance into the Far Country, and ... just never comes back.
(In real life, it may lack the drama of the Prodigal Son. More like just quietly slipping away into the darkness.)
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Devin, here's what I see: I see Jesus being harsh on those who think they are already righteous, those who demand rule-keeping without a heart for justice, compassion, and steadfast love for God, those who "lay heavy burdens on the backs of men and don't lift a finger to help carry them"... He does this to shake us (and notice I said "us", because I recently have had good reason to include myself) out of our complacency so that we can see our hearts as they really are.
I don't mean to jump on you, brother. It's just that what you said kind of jarred me.
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You missed something that it’s too important not to miss, because everything rests on it. You said, “saved by God thru grace if we repent.”
You left out the trust (faith) part. And the repent part, you are seeing in a somewhat crooked way, from what I can see. Bear with me here, I think I have some help.
I think you see repent as “be very sorry for your sins.” If you are born with a sin nature (and you were), what is the point of being very sorry for what you were born as? That’s not something you had any control over. And you will never have control over your nature except by growing in trust in God to see to it. Leopard can’t change his spots.
So first, we are saved by the kindness and power (grace) of God, through trust (faith.)
Everything good God has for you will be imparted to you and done to you and in you and for you through trust. That’s it. No more complicated than that. It’s not imparted through worry, but through trust. Trust.
Repent means: turn to God in trust. So for your purposes, it means: to turn back to trusting God again whenever you find yourself in worry. Worry over money, health or whatever your particular besetting worry and anxiousness is. Whatever is not of trust is sin. (It’s a verse.)
If you have to return to trust (repent) 10 times a day, just do it. That’s your only job. He will let you struggle with trust in order to grow your trust. Just keep turning back to trust (repent.) This IS the warfare. You are saved through your trust, you are kept through your trust, He grows your trust through pressure put against your trust (the same as a muscle only grows if it meets with pressure and resistance.) There is nothing more precious than your trust (It’s a verse.)
If everything God has for us comes only through our trust of Him, what do you suppose the enemy will attack? What’s the one thing your enemy does not want to see grow, increase or be clung to by you? All good comes to you through trust, so it’s obvious it’s what he will attack. And he does attack it and we sink down into the mud of worry instead of trust like a dog returning to its vomit. And once we see the warfare IS over our trust, we make great progress.
After you have struggled and grown in trust and insisted on firm trust and learned the obedience of trust, He will strengthen, confirm and establish you. (Its a verse.)
Faith means trust. That’s your only job. That’s the race. That’s the warfare. Everything other than trust is just noise and distraction. Trust when you like what’s happening, trust when you don’t like what’s happening.
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Exactly, although he left his father behind he was still his father's son.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
True. But if he'd stayed in the far country, no longer considering himself his Father's son, he would've died there.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
As you well know the problem within this generation is they no longer like to hear nor believe in the word repent .
Yet how often did GOD use it in the old test , DID JESUS USE it on earth , did the apostels use it
and even from heaven we see in the messages to the Seven churches , REPENT .
Notice he was dead so long as he was alive in SIN . MY SON WAS DEAD
Just like paul said about the widows , SHE IS DEAD WHILE SHE LIVETH IN SIN .
Most folks wanna believe we can just do as we please and etc . But i simply say we belong too WHO WE OBEY
and who we obey IS WHOSE we are . That indeed ye shall know them by their fruits
and as james once said , NOW BRETHREN if any of YOU does err from the truth
and one converts the sinner from the error of His ways , YA just saved a soul from death and covered a multitude of sins .
LOVE CORRECTS . FOR LOVE shall cover the multitude of sins . We need to get busy
purging out the doctrines of leaven which have caused many a church and many a people to leaven full .
Thus my advice is , FLOOD the place with all things JESUS did say and teach , and all things the apostels did say and teach
and all biblical doctrine . WE must point TO THE TRUE CHRIST and do so while there still be time to do so .
Cause the world i am seeing and even most of the christendom i am seeing , IS SAYING , TIME IS RUNNING OUT and FAST
for many have gone under a delusion and sit at a table of unity , a table so vile and rank
HAD it been here on earth in JESUS days HE would have kicked it over and said TAKE THIS THING OUTTA OF MY FATHERS HOUSE .
I got to do as i am led to do . AND we must return to the original life saving gosple , the truth of JESUS words
of the pure and holy sound doctrine whereby we shall grow wise unto salvation through Faith in Christ .
For many men now work within not only the world and false religoins but throughout christendom
to merge all right under a lie that will connect and unify them as one and it wont be under Christ , but under ANTI CHRIST .
Facts are facts . by grace i see exactly where this is all leading many . WE MUST PREACH THE TRUE JESUS
thus we must truly learn our bibles well and be in prayer and be hearers and doers of all things HE did teach and say .
I think I follow more of an Orthodox view of sinning. The Lord continually calls people to repentance throughout the bible and the Catholic church does not teach OSAS. It is those churches that departed the Catholic church that teach OSAS.
So I did some research on the subject and found the Catholic answer. It would appear that I got similar understanding from reading the bible as they did. I'll post a link for those interested (Once Saved, Always Saved?).
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Maybe what devin should have said was not that JESUS was hard on sinners , but hard on UNREPENTANT SINNERS .
Those who refused HIM and chose to walk in their own ways .
God has shown HIS PATTERN unto all in that bible . He is righteous holy just and GOOD
and will not deny His own righteous judgment , but HE does desire not the death of the wicked
but rather they would repent , REPENT and beleive in the glorious LORD CHRIST
and to be hearers and doers of all things HE did teach . Its those who justify sin and use JESUS name that had better fear big time .
Its those who say OH JESUS is my way , but other religoins have their own way to GOD , THAT HAD BETTER FEAR IN TERROR
for saying that UNHOLY LIE .
Its those who willfully embrace sin and call evil good and good evil that had better fear and fear big time .
ONLY GOD can change the heart , And GOD dont draw us to HIM by any mindset or any religoin
HE draws us to THE SON and THE SON by the SPIRIT does change our heart to love the things of GOD
and to hate the evils of the flesh . I warn us all time is running out and many are not gonna make it .
YET if folks had just come to the true JESUS , TO FAITH IN THE GLORIOUS KING , OH they could have had such a wonderful good end .
SO my advice is , How about we bring the one book back into the churches , the book they kicked out . THE BIBLE
and let us learn THAT version oF GOD , that version of Christ and that verion of how the apostels lived and taught .
OR many are not gonna make it . Let us focus on the glorious words of Christ and sound doctrine whereby we can grow wise
unto salvation through faith in Christ .
I noticed you're big on this trust issue. You appear to use that word "trust" to support an OSAS view. I don't see that as correct doctrine when I view the entire bible in context.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Devin you aint helping a soul by exposing one error only to point the peoples back to the most dangerous church alive , THE RCC .
Let us not do such a thing . Remind the peoples about the danger of sin . BUT DONT point them , nor encourage
them to sit at or in or have any kind of unity with such a dangerous dugeon of lies .
ITS TIME we just point folks back to REAL FAITH IN CHRIST and just teach the things of the bible , the sayings of JESUS
the sayings of the apostels , and all wonderful truth found in the holy book called the bible . MY how simple things could have been
had we pointed to Christ and not to men .
Let us not do such a thing . Remind the peoples about the danger of sin . BUT DONT point them , nor encourage
them to sit at or in or have any kind of unity with such a dangerous dugeon of lies .
ITS TIME we just point folks back to REAL FAITH IN CHRIST and just teach the things of the bible , the sayings of JESUS
the sayings of the apostels , and all wonderful truth found in the holy book called the bible . MY how simple things could have been
had we pointed to Christ and not to men .
The publican knew he was a sinner, did he repent and walk away from his sin? The bible didn't say he did. It says he humbled himself before the Lord and asked for mercy. Luke 18:9-14. Yet the bible is clear that it calls sinners to repentance throughout the bible.
Behold
Well-Known Member
A "Saint" is a born again believer.
They exist IN the Spirit of God, having been born again BY the Spirit of God, into the Spirit of God.
Consequence ? : "ONE with God". = Spiritually
Now can this person do something carnal like rent a "R" Rated movie, or watch "Game of Thrones" for 7 yrs?
Sure.
But this does not effect their born again Spirit or their Salvation.
mmm…no, I don’t use trusting God to support OSAS. If anything, you could maybe say I think…if you continue in trust, grow in trust, learn the obedience of trust, return to trust when you catch yourself doing the opposite, He will never abandon you. Ever.
You were saved through your trust. I don’t think you can look with too much importance on trust, since it was what He saved you THROUGH. By grace, THROUGH trust.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Many speak of self effort to try to get into heaven.
Thats Religion.
so....Where is the Cross of Christ in a self saving gospel, ??
Where is it?
There is no CROSS, no CHRIST in "self" salvation, according to their WORDS.
All they ever talk about is ..."me, me me me, what im doing doing".
That is not God's Salvaiton.
That is you trying to save yourself.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Absolutely right my friend . You are right on this one .
And HE blessed us by sending JESUS to turn us from our inquities . GOD has given us great hope in CHRIST . LIFE saving and life changing .
That is the key . This is how ye shall know them too .
I used to be a lip sevice only kind of man , IF YA KNOW what i mean .
I could holler JESUS saves , but i still lived in and loved my sin . CALL THAT DEAD FAITH , CAUSE IT IS and IT WAS .
TRUE FAITH has PROOF my friend , IT HAS FRUITS .
HE who has the SPIRIT would have the very FRUIT of the SPIRIT . KNOWING FULL WELL that ONLY JESUS saves
and having the deposit of the SPIRIT upon their hearts .
AND what is the very FRUIT of the SPIRIT
what does it do , WELL the things that are PLEASING TO GOD , and SIN AINT .
THOSE who follow the flesh , who walk in willfull sin , who justify sin , JOHN KNEW < THEY DID NOT KNOW HIM
just like i did not know HIM . THERE is so much good in just returning to bible reading
MAN we would grow in wisdom unto salvation through faith IN THAT JESUS and not in another jesus that so many often preach .
BUT what a heart loves is what a heart follows . SO i am , by grace , doing all i can to point
folks back to the true CHRIST , the true gospel , and that BY BIBLCAL TRUTH . WE GOTTA LOVE THAT JESUS
not the worlds version , BUT THAT JESUS . OR we are loving a lie of men . just knowing a name only but NOT THE TRUE JESUS .
We are living in a time of delusion , the which has morphed into madness even in these last few years .
BUT i have come and not just me , but lambs all over the world , TO STAND against the lie and lies of men
and to point to the TRUTH OF GOD , WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD , WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST .
And as i said i aint alone , the LORD is with me and With all the lambs . LAMBS of CHRIST dont sit at a table of belial neither .
and make compromise for unity . cause any kind of unity that can compromise the words of JESUS
IT AINT UNDER JESUS , ITS UNDER THE DRAGON . JESUS did not deny the WORDS of GOD , the SPIRIT WILL NOT DENY the TRUTH OF JESUS
OF HIS TEACHINGS , the apostels did not deny HIS teachings . SO WHY on earth do folks sit under men who DO .
That table AINT FOR ME . IF i could i would overthrow that table myself . BUT i cannot
its been allowed under the delusion . ALL i can do is expose it and pray and pray heavily that no man , woman or child goes in that direction .
LOVE . DEVIN that is t rue love . IT POINTS ONLY TO JESUS . Any love that wont , WELL lets call it the love of the world and of the dragon .
Oh, thanks for explaining, I thought that is what you meant by this:
Yes I'm having trust issues right now with Biden sending money and weapons to Ukraine amid a fight between Russia and Ukraine. He also said he would evacuate him in the middle of a fight between Russia and Ukraine. Personally I think he's handling everything all wrong. So I must have trust in God.
You know you should put the money picture in your tagline, just kidding:
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