Fulfillment of the law, and coming of Christ.

[Ferris Bueller]

All one has to say is "Fulfillment of the law", to set me off on this. A phrase like that is too often used to push anarchy and claim it is being in Christ.

Christ fulfilled the whole law in regard to legal justification. But he did not fulfill the whole law in regard to what remains to be kept by his people.

 

[farouk]

All I know sir is faith and love. Anything outside of that a persons freedom of choice sir. I believe God is more powerful than the Bible in conviction by the Holy Spirit to any believers.

God by the spirit can cause a person to realize they were in the wrong.

Though the Bible is highly profitable for a renewed mind and heart.

God's Word is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is "quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword" (Hebrews 4.12); the work of the Holy Spirit is necessary in order to give light and understanding.

 

[Davy]

Christ fulfilled the whole law in regard to legal justification. But he did not fulfill the whole law in regard to what remains to be kept by his people.

Legal justification???

God is not playing lawyer when we are justified by our Faith on Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

Our relationship with Him and His Son is not like a courtroom. It is like being within a 'family'.

Now if someone seeks to go outside what is good for the family, then what is that family liable to do? They might just 'cut off' that one doing evil, UNLESS they repent and make a change, and come back into the fold of Jesus Christ. That is how God's laws work for all believers on Jesus Christ.

But still, go murder and see what God's laws given to society will do. One can be forgiven by Christ of the sin, but that doesn't mean your flesh won't pay the penalty while still here.

 

[Davy]

Here's a further example of God's laws still in operation today.

One of God's laws in the Old Testament is to not eat certain foods, and we easily know why now, because they are not healthy for our body. Take shellfish for example. I love crab, lobster, and shrimp. But I know that shellfish are scavengers God created to cleanse the seas. They are not healthy, very, very high in cholesterol that is bad for your veins and heart.

Yet per Apostle Paul, who said whatever is sold in the shambles, that eat, we can eat if we have to. If we get invited to dinner by the non-believer, and they set food before us that God said don't eat, Paul said to eat for The Gospel's sake. Afterall, you're trying to reach the unbeliever with The Gospel.

So did God's laws against eating from His unhealthy list change through Lord Jesus on His cross?

Believe it or not, many brethren think so, that all we need do is pray over that shellfish, and magically it becomes healthy food. Fact is though health science well knows it still isn't healthy for our flesh body. We can get by eating it for years and not see its terrible effect until later in life, but it will still be there.

God's health law didn't scientifically change. It's our liberty in Christ that changed our application of it, that's all.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Legal justification???

God is not playing lawyer when we are justified by our Faith on Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

Yes, he is.
When God forgave us our sins through Christ he gave us his righteousness as if we had kept the law perfectly. And so from a legal point of view we have no sin on our account, just as if we had kept the whole law perfectly all of the time and never sinned.

 

[MatthewG]

To each their own friends. You all take care and God bless! Always be encouraged to read the word and have faith in the death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But still, go murder and see what God's laws given to society will do. One can be forgiven by Christ of the sin, but that doesn't mean your flesh won't pay the penalty while still here.

I don't think there is anyone who is making some kind of argument against this.

 

[Robert Gwin]

That's interesting, but could you break down the math on that one?

If this helps Ferris, I will summarize it, but I can provide a more detailed account if you need it. The prophecy found in Daniel Chap 9 about 70 weeks to finish off sin is a prophecy about the coming of the Messiah/Christ. The time starts with "the going forth of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem", then there would be 69 weeks to the Messiah (v9). We believe that decree happened in 455 BCE in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes (Neh 2:1, 5-8). 70 weeks came and went with nothing happening, so we believe those weeks to be weeks of years. The 69th week (483 yrs) came in 29 CE, when Jesus became the Messiah at his baptism. His ministry was 3.5 yrs and he was cut off in the middle of that week (v27) thus finishing off sin in the year 33 CE, on Pentecost of that year holy spirit was poured out on Christs disciples thus the new covenant went into force at that point, but the law would remain in force till the end of the week, or the year 36 CE when the first uncircumcised gentile Cornelius was recorded as becoming a Christian under the covenant, thus ending the gathering of the anointed from fleshly Israel. All God's people from that point had to obey the law of the Christ from that point on.

Hope that makes sense Ferris.

 

[Davy]

Yes, he is.
When God forgave us our sins through Christ he gave us his righteousness as if we had kept the law perfectly.

His Grace to us for the remission of sins is a FREE GIFT, not of works.

For that reason, no one can even say that His Grace was attached to the law!

You might want to open up Romans 4 and Galatians 3 by Apostle Paul and LEARN what he showed there about the Promise by Faith INDEPENDENT of the law, instead of heeding those on Judaism.

 

[Davy]

I don't think there is anyone who is making some kind of argument against this.

Well, yes, they are, maybe unknowingly, but they still are, WHEN... they uphold the false idea taught in a beth-aven church that we cannot sin anymore after having believed on Jesus Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus fulfilled the law in that

1. He confirmed and obeyed every word written. He was without sin. Of which no other person ever living has achieved. Nor will ever achieve
2. As the lamb of God, he took what was against us contrary to us. And nailed it to the cross.

The law was never given as a means to make us righteous. It was given as a means to prove to us how sinful we are, (and it was not even perfect at that, as Jesus proved on the serum on the mount)

Bearing false witness according to the law is a sin. But the command itself is not helpful. It condemned the one who did it. But it can not help them/ It does nt get down to the root cause of why the commandment was broken to begin with.

Thats why the law is called a schoolmaster. It is given to lead us to christ. But after we have found him, It has no purpose in our lives. It can do no more.

Now we seek the law of love and the spirit. Which gets to the root cause of sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

His Grace to us for the remission of sins is a FREE GIFT, not of works.

Everybody knows this......except the Catholics, lol.

For that reason, no one can even say that His Grace was attached to the law!

You're not understanding the argument.
When God forgives your sin, wiping it away as if you'd never sinned, it's like you had kept the law perfectly. Which, of course, is not true, practically speaking. That's why when God declares you righteous it's a LEGAL declaration of righteousness, not a literal, practical one. Understand?

 

[Davy]

Everybody knows this......except the Catholics, lol.


You're not understanding the argument.
When God forgives your sin, wiping it away as if you'd never sinned, it's like you had kept the law perfectly. Which, of course, is not true, practically speaking. That's why when God declares you righteous it's a LEGAL declaration of righteousness, not a literal, practical one. Understand?

I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Protestant Christian, my ancestors from France in the 16th century left France because of Catholic persecution.

I understand your argument alright. You just tried to connect the idea of the 'law' with FAITH. Sorry, but that will NEVER... work, regardless of how many ways you TRY to present it.

So NO analogies with Faith joined to the idea of keeping the law period, please.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Protestant Christian, my ancestors from France in the 16th century left France because of Catholic persecution.

I was not suggesting that you were Catholic, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I understand your argument alright. You just tried to connect the idea of the 'law' with FAITH. Sorry, but that will NEVER... work, regardless of how many ways you TRY to present it.

So NO analogies with Faith joined to the idea of keeping the law period, please.

So, when God forgave your sins and imputed his righteousness to you, what guilt according to the law did you still have in the eyes of God?

 

[Davy]

So, when God forgave your sins and imputed his righteousness to you, what guilt according to the law did you still have in the eyes of God?

Your deceptive attempt at reasoning about Faith on Jesus Christ just doesn't cut it.

When Jesus forgave my sins (that are past according to Apostle Paul), when I first believed on Him, that did not involve ANY working of the law. What you apparently do not understand, which I referred you to in Galatians 3, is that God's Promise by Faith to Abraham was 430 years BEFORE the giving of the law! It had NOTHING to do with the law or any contract.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When Jesus forgave my sins (that are past according to Apostle Paul), when I first believed on Him, that did not involve ANY working of the law.

That is correct.
You did no work of any kind to be justified. All you did was believe and receive the gospel by faith.
My question is, when that occurred, did you not in that moment look like you had kept the law perfectly? Yes, or no?
We know you did not. It just looked like you did. That's called 'justification'. It's a legal declaration of righteousness, just as if you had kept the law of God perfectly. It's a legal declaration, not an actual one. You'd have to have really kept all of the law to get that. On your account in heaven you become as if you are a perfect law keeper, legally speaking, when you receive the righteousness of God.

 

[Davy]

That is correct.
You did no work of any kind to be justified. All you did was believe and receive the gospel by faith.
My question is, when that occurred, did you not in that moment look like you had kept the law perfectly? Yes, or no?
We know you did not. It just looked like you did. That's called 'justification'. It's a legal declaration of righteousness, just as if you had kept the law of God perfectly. It's a legal declaration, not an actual one. You'd have to have really kept all of the law to get that. On your account in heaven you become as if you are a perfect law keeper, legally speaking, when you receive the righteousness of God.

No, the law simply was not in the equation when Abraham believed God and God counted it to Abraham as righteousness. No sense in your trying to weave the law into that just because of some fanciful notion either you've had in your own mind, or from listening to someone else that planted your idea in your mind for you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, the law simply was not in the equation when Abraham believed God and God counted it to Abraham as righteousness. No sense in your trying to weave the law into that just because of some fanciful notion either you've had in your own mind, or from listening to someone else that planted your idea in your mind for you.

You apparently haven't understood anything I've said.
But if you are sure that you have, the way I can know that is if you read back to me in your own words what my argument is.
Please do that so I can see if you understood my argument.

 

[marks]

You're not understanding the argument.
When God forgives your sin, wiping it away as if you'd never sinned, it's like you had kept the law perfectly. Which, of course, is not true, practically speaking. That's why when God declares you righteous it's a LEGAL declaration of righteousness, not a literal, practical one. Understand?

God is lying?

Or did God maybe do something different?

Think about it . . .

Much love!