Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

[Aunty Jane]

I have read the mocking tone of some who ask, "how could there be an evening and a morning if the sun was not made until day 4?" However, the role of the sun was to tell us what time it is. It does not cause the day. It merely reports it. A clock does not make the hours and minutes.

Very valid point. Since “God created the heavens and the earth”, I believe that this was the entire universe brought into existence in what science jokingly calls “the Big Bang”. The immense energy that created matter of such magnitude is beyond human comprehension. But science acknowledges that it had a beginning, like all things must.....except the Creator himself.

The sun existed from creation’s beginning along with all the other planets in our small solar system....it generated enough light to allow for photosynthesis of the vegetation but according to Job 38:4-9, it was wrapped up in thick cloud layers in that early stage of preparation, so not visible from the earth’s surface....the moon and stars weren’t visible then either.

That idea is fostered, I believe, from having been handed a tradition. The traditional Christian view has been that Adam was the first man. "Man" was created, male and female, on day 6 and told to fill up the earth and have dominion over it.

God rested on the 7th day and said, "I have no man to till the ground." After that, God formed a man and told him to tend a newly made garden. "Created on day 6 and told to fill the earth" versus "formed after the first Sabbath and told to tend the Garden." Different time, different process, different instructions.

Mankind could have been here for 2 weeks, or 200,000 years before Adam was formed.

I have heard others offer this theory but from my own studies I cannot see how this is possible. Genesis ch 2 does not speak of a different creation but enlarges on details missing from the first account in chapter 1 which is about the order of creation, whereas ch 2 is about the humans.

Genesis 2:1-4
“And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.” (NASB)

We see the use of the word “day” here to mean the entire creative process, confirming that this word does not have only one meaning.

But I cannot see room in this account for what you and others suggest. Not only that, but when we consider that God designed humans to live forever on this earth and to act as its custodians or caretakers, we see the “tree of life” in the garden was there to ensure that life continued indefinitely. The only way to be prevented from partaking of this life giving tree was to disobey God’s commands concerning the TKGE. That is what the Bible says happened. (Genesis 3:22-24) Death has plagued our lives ever since....we are enslaved to sin’s wages.

We see from ch 3 onward that because the first humans were placed in a garden and told to “fill the earth and subdue it”....outside of the garden was not inhabited or ‘tamed’ by man. The whole idea of placing them in the garden was to facilitate God’s purpose to have them make the whole world into a garden-like paradise for them and their children, all of whom had the prospect of everlasting life....(but not immortality...that is another interesting topic)

If satan had not entered the picture, they would still be here with us enjoying the blessings of this beautiful planet and God’s myriad creations. If other humans existed prior to Adam and his wife, and these had their own ‘trees of life’ facilitating everlasting life here on earth, where were they when God created Adam? Why is there no mention of them? Speculation is all well and good, but we cannot make those assumptions if the Bible does not specifically state it.

The fact that all humankind have descended from Adam, and that the whole world is far from God’s original purpose, rules out any prior human beings....but it makes us wonder what God was going to do to get his original purpose for free willed humankind, and now rebellious angels, back on track? The Bible tells us how he was going to do that, but it was to be a long range prophesy that was shrouded in mystery for many centuries until the time arrived and God opened up the bigger picture concerning the role of his Messiah and his his kingdom.

So, right there in Eden God promised that a seed that would come to man’s rescue. (Genesis 3:15) He would suffer a temporary heel wound, but would ultimately inflict a fatal head wound on God’s adversary and eliminate all who succumbed to his deceptions....he is the one responsible for all our troubles.

That seed was of course, Jesus Christ, who was to offer his life for the redemption of Adam’s children. (Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:22)
So, no other humans could have been in existence because it would make Christ’s sacrifice meaningless....and it would not explain why the other humans were not still alive. God did not create us to die....everlasting life was to be enjoyed right here.....only disobedience would bring death. There were no “natural” causes. Ageing and death feel as “unnatural” today as they did back in Eden....neither of them were supposed to happen, so that is why we have no ‘program’ for death, either of ourselves or our loved ones.

The Bible itself fills in the blanks if we let it.....

 

[Heart2Soul]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

Good question...I have only recently in the past year come to understand there is a difference from Gen 1 to Gen 4.
God didn't create light twice....so imho...first day was when God created a beginning and and end and separated them along with good and evil. Knowing God exists outside of time we will never fully know how much time passed between each day of creation.
I know the Bible references earth ages...and 3 heavens.
Anyway, it's impossible to gain any understanding with what information is given us without help from the Holy Spirit.

 

[atpollard]

On that basis, I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading.

So Cain’s children DID have to fight off the T-Rex that tried to eat their sheep. :)

 

[Cassandra]

The seventh day began when the creative act was finished and it has not ended yet.
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And that is goofy. Why would Israel have to keep such a thing , and why would God put it in the 10 commandments if it was going on without stopping? It would seem to me if it were unconnected with the breaking of a law then why do you guys say it was done away at the Cross for being a law

 

[quietthinker]

So Cain’s children DID have to fight off the T-Rex that tried to eat their sheep. :)

I doubt God created the T-Rex. My guess is they were the result of 'engineering' by the antediluvians. They didn't show up when Noah was slotting the other animals into the boat so I s'pose that says something.

 

[GEN2REV]

So Cain’s children DID have to fight off the T-Rex that tried to eat their sheep. :)

No. T-Rex wasn't created until later when the Giants began sinning against all the animals by mixing their species to create the chimeras and the dragons/dinosaurs, etc.

 

[GEN2REV]

And that is goofy. Why would Israel have to keep such a thing , and why would God put it in the 10 commandments if it was going on without stopping? It would seem to me if it were unconnected with the breaking of a law then why do you guys say it was done away at the Cross for being a law

See, now there's somebody coming into this with a fresh mind.

I've been volleying all this nonsense back and forth for so long I couldn't even think clearly enough to see all those obvious contradictions.

Nice, Cassandra.

Very good points.

 

[Cooper]

And that is goofy. Why would Israel have to keep such a thing , and why would God put it in the 10 commandments if it was going on without stopping? It would seem to me if it were unconnected with the breaking of a law then why do you guys say it was done away at the Cross for being a law

First there was time without end, and then the lawmakers, people, not God, (look at the 600 plus Mitzvot laws that were devised after the Babylonian captivity) they made the lunar calendar with a seven-day week and thirteen-months in a year. It needed extra days adding to keep in sync with harvest time. It is all a man-made mess and I have given up on anything with it's roots in the Old Testament. We are living in a new dispensation now with Jesus as the head over all, so look to His teaching on the Sabbath and not the false gods and graven images they called LORD in the Old Testament. This is a CHRISTIAN forum, when all is said and done, and as I said in an earlier post, creation was a one-off event with yome meaning a period of time.
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[GEN2REV]

First there was time without end, and then the lawmakers, people, not God, (look at the 600 plus Mitzvot laws that were devised after the Babylonian captivity) made the lunar calendar giving us a seven-day week and a thirteen-month year that needed extra days adding to keep in sync with harvest time. It is all a man-made mess and I have given up on anything with it's roots in the Old Testament. We are living in a new dispensation now with Jesus as the head over all, so look to His teaching on the Sabbath and not the false gods and graven images they called LORD in the Old Testament. This is a CHRISTIAN forum, when all is said and done, and as I said in an earlier post, creation was a one-off event.
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Sad.

This is what the modern christian believes and what the vast majority of modern mainstream churches teach.

Just plain sad.

 

[Cooper]

Sad.

This is what the modern christian believes and what the vast majority of modern mainstream churches teach.

Just plain sad.

Sad for Jews if they cling to their old traditions, and terribly true at the end of their days. No man can serve two masters, so give up the law in which there is only condemnation and turn to Jesus 100% casting all else aside. For in Him there is no condemnation. His burden is light. All we need to do is cling to the hem of his garment all the days of our life.
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[n2thelight]

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude.

As for whether it 24 hours or 1000 years for each day,I lean towards 1000

 

[Robert Gwin]

Wrong that is a reinterpretation. God made it very clear what He meant to try to keep us sinful humans from misinterpreting HIM. The clue is found in the phrase < there was an evening and a morning! If God wanted long ages the language He created had perfectly fine words to use to convey that if it was the truth! So time periods is just mans reinterpretation to allow for evolution, or some other gibberish.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

A normal ususal way of reading and understanding is 6 24 hour days! as we know them! Anything else is a private interpretation.

You do believe that God intended for that passage to be in the Bible correct Ron? I do, so if Paul under inspiration penned that we were still in God's rest, and some had not yet entered into it, that tells me that at that time we were still in the 7th day.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

Wonderful thread! I’ve only read your op so far and I think it’s wonderful. :)
The book of John talks about the beginning of Genesis. He very distinctly leads us there by starting his book with “In the beginning.” So that first light, that light that was before the sun and moon, John is talking about that light, the light that was with God in the beginning.
Darkness was already here. If Jesus is the light called forth into a place covered with darkness, what/who is the darkness?

I’m excited to see where your thread leads us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not really much help. I have heard both sides. I graduated from an Engineering University (so I understand science).

What I have not heard anyone from the "Old Earth" or "a Day is not 24 hours" camp address is the very specific phrase in Genesis 1 repeated at the end of each "day" ... "there was evening and there was morning".

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean?

(Does it just mean that Moses did not understand when he wrote the story down? Does it mean something else?)

I was helped greatly by a word study of the opening part of Genesis. While I was doing it, I discarded the usual meanings since the sun was not yet, and I dug into the other things the words could mean.
I came away with an understanding (going on memory because I’d have to find my notebook from then) of: and the light He called glorious, everlasting and the darkness He called a twisting away of the light.

It answered a lot for me. Like, how is it that God says, I create darkness? If God calls darkness a twisting away of light, then it is a negative creation, not a positive creation. It’s a removal of light/Himself by twisting away from someone or something. Or casting from His presence/face. Giving His back and not His face?

I kind of think…before He said, let there be light in this dark place, that this was where He cast satan to. Some of the words for the darkness that was here covering the face of the waters are pretty extreme, like…a pissing and a waste!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is AFTER creation. The creative act was a one-off.
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sorry, but you don't get to redefine simple terms to make creation thousands or millions of years. this sounds like the old day-age theory which is nothing more than an attempt to rectify the bible with the false science of Darwinian evolution.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And there are some places that very conspicuously do not say: and God saw that it was good. I could go find the whole study if you’re interested. But the places where it does not say He saw it was good are pretty noticeable. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And God saw that it was good? Nope. and the places where it is conspicuously absent are separations. Like the first one - Why did God create heavens and earth. He created a separation of where he was and where something else was.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So the first few days really can be an unspecified amount of time that is not necessarily 24 hour periods…they aren’t talking about a day as we see a day. They’re rather talking about something other than that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking once I start.
I rather get the feeling satan thought, You turned your back on me, you twisted away from me, and now I will cause these people you have made to twist away from YOU. They will be on MY side in this controversy! You will destroy ME? Then You will have to destroy them too!

He is very hideous. It can’t be overstated how hideous he is.

 

[Cooper]

sorry, but you don't get to redefine simple terms to make creation thousands or millions of years. this sounds like the old day-age theory which is nothing more than an attempt to rectify the bible with the false science of Darwinian evolution.

It takes millions of years for the light from the stars to reach earth.
That is how long and more beside, the earth was in the making.

"Stars are found in large groups called galaxies. A galaxy can have millions or billions of stars. The nearest large galaxy to us, Andromeda, is 2.5 million light-years away. So, we see Andromeda as it was 2.5 million years in the past. The universe is filled with billions of galaxies, all farther away than this. Some of these galaxies are much farther away."
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[GEN2REV]

Sad for Jews if they cling to their old traditions, and terribly true at the end of their days. No man can serve two masters, so give up the law in which there is only condemnation and turn to Jesus 100% casting all else aside. For in Him there is no condemnation. His burden is light. All we need to do is cling to the hem of his garment all the days of our life.
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Yeah, 'cause that's Biblical.

All those who cast aside the 10 Commandments will be cast aside as a branch and will wither and be burned.