GENESIS CREATION CHALLENGE: Can you teach it without changing words and contradicting yourself? Doubtful.

[GodsGrace]

Mankind has more than one nature. We all have two, and they don't agree.

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

It isn't only the Bible that says so. The Greek philosophers wrote extensively about the 'higher' and 'lower' natures of men.

Wick,,,
I think you mean that we have two types of appetite.
The higher which is more spiritual and moral...
and the lower which is more geared to physical needs.

Man has only one nature....
the human nature.

Only Jesus had two natures:
Human and Divine
(in one person)

Anyway, if that's true, then hope remains for humanity. There IS something wicked in us, but there's also something of greatness and excellence. Some will embrace the darkness. Some will embrace the light. Most of us will struggle between the two to navigate to the best of our ability.

Yes sir.
The wicked in us is what we call the sin nature in Christianity.
Right? That which makes us tend toward sin.
This tending toward sin,,,the sin nature,,,is supposed to be put under submission to the Holy Spirit.
This is why we sin less.
And, yes, it is a choice we make to either embrace the dark or embrace the light.

The church certainly has taught it.

I think that the church is much like the Israel of the Old Testament. By which I mean, it isn't much different from the rest of the world, until you get down to those 7,000 who haven't bent the knee to the Baals. There was a remnant within Israel that was righteous... they were the real Israel hidden in the larger Israel. Likewise, there is a remnant within the church that practices righteousness... the real church among the larger group.

Agreed 100%
Isn't this called the Body of Christ?
It is also called His Church captial C

to be distinguished from the bldg made of brick and mortar, the institution.

 

[ScottA]

I can't really add anything.
I do know that Jewish scholars speak of another place in Genesis, can't remember where, that speaks of a day as not being 24 hours...as we would understand a day to be and, indeed, as the rest of scripture defines as a day - even if broken up as the Jews did...6AM to 12PM, etc.

It might even be 6AM to 9AM, etc.

Do you know?
Jesus dying on the cross at 3 PM has something to do with this...
it's the same time that the sacrifices were going on at the temple inside Jerusalem.

(so much to know).

Good thinking!

Even we commonly refer to years as being days or times. For instance, "back in my Grandpa's day."

But the thing to ultimately understand is that time by any measure was created as a means or media for revelation of the things of God which have no such measure. Making every measure only relative to the things of this world as mere examples--as timeless, Godly truth revealed by parables of worldly and even unholy nature. Thur the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth." Which was not given until after the kingdom of God came upon men and the commencement of the age and advent of the Holy Spirit--"the third day."

 

[Wick Stick]

Wick,,,
I think you mean that we have two types of appetite.
The higher which is more spiritual and moral...
and the lower which is more geared to physical needs.

My readings of Paul and Aristotle would lead me to say that "appetite" is correct for the lower nature and impulses of man. The higher nature would not be called appetite.

Man has only one nature....
the human nature.

Only Jesus had two natures:
Human and Divine
(in one person)

I disagree. We all have an animal nature.

Upon that, God has impressed His own image. We bear God's image alongside the animal nature. If it were not so, we would not be able to reason with each other or read each other's words.

 

[ScottA]

The meaning of numbers isn't so tough understand. They're often literal, but when they're not...

"Three" expresses the idea of "few" or "not many."
"Twelve" is the opposite idea - "a great number" or "many."

This is on display in the accountings of the battles Israel had. Whenever they take "12,000" men to battle they win. Whenever they take "3,000" they lose. The only exception is the story of Gideon, where he brings 300 men and wins, but that's kind of the point of the story - God only needed a few to prevail.

"Seven" expresses the idea of completing something. It's about persisting, or multiple efforts.

Yes, very often the case.

But the thing to ultimately understand is that time by any measure was created as a means or media for revelation of the things of God which have no such measure. Making every measure only relative to the things of this world as mere examples--as timeless, Godly truth revealed by parables of worldly and even unholy nature. Thus the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth." Which was not given until after the kingdom of God came upon men and the commencement of the age and advent of the Holy Spirit--"the third day" (of Christ).

 

[GodsGrace]

Good thinking!

Even we commonly refer to years as being days or times. For instance, "back in my Grandpa's day."

But the thing to ultimately understand is that time by any measure was created as a means or media for revelation of the things of God which have no such measure. Making every measure only relative to the things of this world as mere examples--as timeless, Godly truth revealed by parables of worldly and even unholy nature. Thur the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth." Which was not given until after the kingdom of God came upon men and the commencement of the age and advent of the Holy Spirit--"the third day."

In the end...
At the end of the day...
Bottom line....
It doesn't matter !!

At least, I don't think it does.
There are important teachings in the story of A and E...
important elements to take away from that story.
I doubt the meaning of day is all that important...
if it is, I certainly don't understand why.

Like I said originally,,,it's not a history book and not a science book. (story).

 

[GodsGrace]

My readings of Paul and Aristotle would lead me to say that "appetite" is correct for the lower nature and impulses of man. The higher nature would not be called appetite.

Sounds good.

I disagree. We all have an animal nature.

So which animal are you?

Upon that, God has impressed His own image. We bear God's image alongside the animal nature. If it were not so, we would not be able to reason with each other or read each other's words.

We have a human nature.
Animals have the nature of an animal.
Rocks have the nature of a rock.

The image of God that you speak of is the spirit aspect of our human nature.

BODY
SOUL = man
SPIRIT = man with spirit...the knowledge of God.

 

[ScottA]

In the end...
At the end of the day...
Bottom line....
It doesn't matter !!

At least, I don't think it does.
There are important teachings in the story of A and E...
important elements to take away from that story.
I doubt the meaning of day is all that important...
if it is, I certainly don't understand why.

Like I said originally,,,it's not a history book and not a science book. (story).

The words of scripture are revelation from God on many levels.

In the simplest terms, Time is media from God. By definition however, Space, Time, and Matter (the very elements of this fallen world) show God dividing eternity (Himself) incrementally out to His multitude of children. It is a beautiful thing, and yet creates also the "shadow of turning" mentioned in Revelation...which is darkness and evil--the cost of our salvation.

 

[Exegesis]

I am trying to understand what you are saying.

Hi @ProDeo . If you are new to the concept of man being created twice, it can be confusing. It took me a while to understand it. There are different versions depending on who you ask.

According to you A&E were created on the 3th day with reference to Genesis 2, sinned and died on that same day.

Not exactly.

According to what is written, there was a man (First Adam) created on the Third Day. He died on the Sixth Day.

Additionally, there was a woman (Ishshah) created on the Sixth Day who also died on the Sixth Day.

Both the man and woman were recreated on the Sixth Day. Hence, we get the Second Adam (his name stayed the same) and Eve.

On day 6 we read -

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The first 2 people God created on day 6 are not A&E since they are already gone.

Close. The first couple were created on different days as I show above. But yeah, they are not exactly the Adam and Eve that everyone knows. They do share the same Spirit however. They are just reconfigured with a modified Soul, i.e., Genome.

The biggest differences are:

• The First Adam and Ishshah were immortal
• The Next Adam and Eve were mortal

Also:

• The First Adam and Ishshah had no 'shame', i.e., they had no reproductive organs
• The Next Adam and Eve had 'shame', i.e., they had reproductive organs

Anyone with common sense would know that the only way to cause such major differences is to have a genome rewrite, which is precisely what happened.

The Body is what God 'clothed' them with after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit:

Job 10:11 - Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

They were clothed with an 'earthly tabernacle':

2 Corinthians 5:4 - For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Naked means to have no Body, no 'Tabernacle'.

 

[Exegesis]

We should not be debating anything in the bible that is not LITERAL.

I believe death there does refer to spiritual death.

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 80382

Gee.
What a great response to a serious post.

Perhaps you don't know what literal means?
Could it be?

Spiritual death is literal.
Is a snake speaking literal?

I leave it to you to figure it out.

adjective​

1. in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical.
   

   the literal meaning of a word.

2. following the words of the original very closely and exactly.
   

   a literal translation of Goethe.

3. true to fact; not exaggerated; actual or factual.
   

   a literal description of conditions.

   Synonyms:reliable, exact, truthful
4. being actually such, without exaggeration or inaccuracy.
   

   the literal extermination of a city.

5. (of persons) tending to construe words in the strict sense or in an unimaginative way; matter-of-fact; prosaic.
6. of or relating to the letters of the alphabet.
7. of the nature of letters.
8. expressed by letters.
9. affecting a letter or letters.
   

   a literal error.