GENESIS CREATION CHALLENGE: Can you teach it without changing words and contradicting yourself? Doubtful.

[ScottA]

Hi @ScottA . Welcome to the thread.

If you could do a verse by verse commentary similar to mine, then we can see where 'I messed up'.

This applies to everyone reading this.

And just so that we are all clear in our understanding here, the name 'Eve' does not show up until Genesis 3:20:



This is a fact that cannot be changed. Nowhere is the name Eve mentioned before that. It looks like you made a false assumption.

Since I already did the challenge, I can summarize what I already posted:

• The First Adam was created on the Third Day. We could be looking at a form of Kenosis here.
• The first woman was created from his rib.
• The First Adam named this newly created creature 'Ishshah' or Woman. (Ishshah taken from Ish).
• The couple are immortal. They are 'naked' because they are Spirit and Soul only.
• They have no reproductive organs, thus 'they were not ashamed'.
• They have no physical body. This is how all are resurrected by the way.
• The Body comes later depending on which 'fruit' or zygote one chooses to make a covenant with.
• Tree of Life Zygote Fruit = Glorified Body. Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil Zygote Fruit = Corrupt Body.
• Both trees represent conception. Being born again is a literal, physical process involving real physical biology.
• The First Adam and Ishshah chose to be clothed with a corrupt body. The price is *REAL* death.
• After partaking of the Forbidden Fruit, they both died within a 24hr period, i.e., the Sixth Day.
• This was a real death, not pixie dust, unicorn, false dogma, so called 'spiritual fake news death'.
• They have now returned to the dust of the ground.
• They are sent to Hell where they gain the knowledge of good and evil.
• Thus, the knowledge of good and evil is something that is learned the hard way in the afterlife as an unredeemed sinner.
• The Tree of Life/Wisdom is the easy way to understanding. Wisdom vs. Knowledge.
• After suffering in Hell, God resurrects the couple. This is the Resurrection of Damnation.
• Their eyes are opened physically and metaphorically because they were 'sleeping the sleep of death'.
• They now know what being 'naked' means. It means they have no physical body.
• Their new genes, inherited from the Forbidden Fruit, gives them reproductive organs.
• These new reproductive organs are called 'shame'. All of us are born with shame.
• God then 'clothes them' with a physical body on the Sixth Day.
• This brand new couple now has the same corrupt bodies we have now. They have become mortal.
• Thus the Adam that was created on the Sixth Day is not the exact same Adam that was created on the Third Day.
• The woman created from the rib is not the same as the one created from the Forbidden Fruit.
• The new Adam named his wife 'Eve' because again, she is a new creature not made from a rib.

The seasoned student must go back and read the account again and again without changing words to see it. It can take a while to 'unbrainwash' from all of the corruption one has accumulated. It could take a lifetime. It took me several decades. False teachings are often hard to let go.

Once completed however, the student will be rewarded with the TRUE understanding of what Hell and the Lake of Fire are all about.

God is Love. Christians are taught the exact opposite. Christians are taught the most evil and degenerate hatred imaginable about 'infinite torments' and 'annihilation'. Christians teach that God is more evil than Satan. This thread serves to correct that. Why am I hated for it? I know why.

It doesn't help to go on and on.

Calling the "woman" "Eve" does not mean they were two different women, any more than calling Mickey Mantle "Slugger" means he was two different men.

On the contrary, the narrative as it was originally told just shows a progress from the "woman"--Adam's "wife" as she was also called--to Adam "knowing" her, after which he simply and appropriately called her "Eve" because of what she would become.

 

[ScottA]

Something important that is often overlooked about the Creation Account is that the world before the Fall was a non physical 'ethereal' like realm. It was not the physical world we live in now. This is what so many get wrong.

When the First Adam was created on the Third Day, he was created as spirit and soul only. This is also how the dead are resurrected. They are not raised with physical bodies. That comes later.

The purpose of the two trees in the Garden of Eden was to basically choose what type of physical body to have:

• Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil: The corrupt body we have now
• Tree of Life: The glorified body

Obviously, the couple chose to be clothed with an earthly tabernacle:



Understanding what happened to the First Adam and Ishshah is key to understanding the intricate details of how both Resurrections work.

Again...some good, but some not. Some incorrect.

Your idea of an "ethereal" existence is good. But as for the timing, the creation of time and the dividing of the light from the darkness was the cause of the fall. Wherein everything we now consider as a condition of this world was still being formed...much as you say.

But from the beginning the narrative--"the word of truth"--is "rightly divided" between worldly and heavenly. Thus, much of what would seem to be redundant and confused. Which, incidentally, is why Moses was the writer and not another even before Babel.

Anyway, you haven't rightly divided it according to all truth...but I am currently traveling and will have to wait to elaborate.

 

[newnature]

I learned this today, always trying to learn to grow. Follow the bread crumbs.

 

[Exegesis]

I learned this today, always trying to learn to grow. Follow the bread crumbs.

Indeed. Thanks for that.

If we continue with the 'first and last' theme, we discover that it's not just about first and last letters of an alphabet:

Revelation 2:8 - And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

It also carries the notion of someone who died and was raised.

Here it is again:

Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

In other words, Aleph/Tav can also mean First Adam/Last Adam. So yeah, Jesus is there more than anyone realizes. It all began with the First Adam. He rose on the Third Day. He is the beginning and the end. He died to save his wife. Some things are just too much for those on the milk.

 

[Exegesis]

Calling the "woman" "Eve" does not mean they were two different women, any more than calling Mickey Mantle "Slugger" means he was two different men.

Their names reflect how they were created. This is a subtle clue that is lost when one simply glosses over the text. It takes someone who understands that concept to recognize it.

​

Why was Jacob named that? Why was Ishmael named that? Isaac, Ichabod, the list goes on and on.

Even the name 'Cain' reflects how he came into being:

Genesis 4:1 - And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Many are not able to see it. The word 'gotten' means 'to buy and sell'. Think of the Mark of the Beast. It's the mark of Cain. Those that take the mark are 'unable to be killed'. Think of the name of the Beast. The Beast is Cain, i.e., Satan in human form.

Why would Eve name Cain after the word for 'buying and selling'? Because she paid the ultimate price to be able to give birth. Without any reproductive organs, Ishshah could not produce offspring from within herself. Adam kind of did that with his rib.

I have a suspicion that the Serpent told Ishshah more than what is written that made her want to be the 'mother of all living'. She wanted to be the center of attention. She wanted life to come from within HER body, not Adam's. Thus, her born again name reflects that egotistical 'pride of life' goal of being the 'special one' where 'all life comes from'. 'Mother of all living' is actually an insult and meant to be flippant. It was not a compliment, but more a derogatory curse name reflecting why she chose to make a covenant with death.

 

[Exegesis]

But as for the timing, the creation of time and the dividing of the light from the darkness was the cause of the fall.

That is a strange concept. The ground was cursed because of the Forbidden Fruit:

Genesis 3:17 - And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

This seems rather clear, don't you think? The curse ended with the Flood of Noah.

Personally, I believe that Genesis 3:17 extends to the entire universe as opposed to God simply making farming difficult:

​

The separation of light from darkness is more about separating logic from illogic, comprehension from non-comprehension:

John 1:5 - And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Some call it 'ordo ab chao'.

There was a thread recently about 'chains of darkness'. I couldn't believe no one here was able to figure out what that meant. Darkness means absolute ignorance. The beings are held in a state of non-comprehension, in chains (RNA/DNA) of bondage, until the time of judgement. They are 'heavily sedated' in a sense, or like in a comatose state.

 

[ScottA]

Their names reflect how they were created. This is a subtle clue that is lost when one simply glosses over the text. It takes someone who understands that concept to recognize it.

View attachment 80292​

Why was Jacob named that? Why was Ishmael named that? Isaac, Ichabod, the list goes on and on.

Even the name 'Cain' reflects how he came into being:



Many are not able to see it. The word 'gotten' means 'to buy and sell'. Think of the Mark of the Beast. It's the mark of Cain. Those that take the mark are 'unable to be killed'. Think of the name of the Beast. The Beast is Cain, i.e., Satan in human form.

Why would Eve name Cain after the word for 'buying and selling'? Because she paid the ultimate price to be able to give birth. Without any reproductive organs, Ishshah could not produce offspring from within herself. Adam kind of did that with his rib.

I have a suspicion that the Serpent told Ishshah more than what is written that made her want to be the 'mother of all living'. She wanted to be the center of attention. She wanted life to come from within HER body, not Adam's. Thus, her born again name reflects that egotistical 'pride of life' goal of being the 'special one' where 'all life comes from'. 'Mother of all living' is actually an insult and meant to be flippant. It was not a compliment, but more a derogatory curse name reflecting why she chose to make a covenant with death.

You are speculating--speculating language confused by God. The literary information of which is little more than understanding at the lower level and way of mankind. Not the best source of knowledge.

Meanwhile, I have given you more already than you have discovered. Which I say, not to boast or because it is a contest. It's not. But because the promise of all truth does not come by study, personal insight or other means, but by the Spirit...which you have already revealed is not how you come by the information you are speaking of.

Do you have anything that is directly from God?

 

[ScottA]

That is a strange concept. The ground was cursed because of the Forbidden Fruit:



This seems rather clear, don't you think? The curse ended with the Flood of Noah.

Personally, I believe that Genesis 3:17 extends to the entire universe as opposed to God simply making farming difficult:

View attachment 80295​

The separation of light from darkness is more about separating logic from illogic, comprehension from non-comprehension:



Some call it 'ordo ab chao'.

There was a thread recently about 'chains of darkness'. I couldn't believe no one here was able to figure out what that meant. Darkness means absolute ignorance. The beings are held in a state of non-comprehension, in chains (RNA/DNA) of bondage, until the time of judgement. They are 'heavily sedated' in a sense, or like in a comatose state.

You are referring to things occurring in this world made manifest after the fact. That is not the cause, but the effect made manifest in this world. From which there is no extrapolation to be made. All knowledge comes from God.

 

[ProDeo]

@Exegesis

I am trying to understand what you are saying.

According to you A&E were created on the 3th day with reference to Genesis 2, sinned and died on that same day.

On day 6 we read -

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The first 2 people God created on day 6 are not A&E since they are already gone.

Is that what you are saying ?

 

[Wick Stick]

Great point. I agree. There are too many people that get 'big headed' about bloodlines and being 'descended from royalty', etc. who think their DNA is better than everyone else's and so that makes them entitled to some high position of power. I've had people email me over the years trying to get me to join their 'aryan race' club. It's ridiculous.

Yikes. I've run up against 'guilty by association' arguments, too. That sucks.

What the Bible is ultimately teaching is that the planet is set for termination. Why? Because the genetics of the planet has been corrupted so badly it has become a threat to anything and everything, even to the Heavenly realms. That is the story Scripture is trying to teach in a delicate, yet stern manner. The real Good News of the Bible is that there is a 'repair program' that will correct said genetics and fix the mess that began in the Garden of Eden.

It is that 'repair program' that I am fascinated with. I want to show folks, mainly non-believers, that they can make a more informed decision on whether they wish to join the program or not. Athiests are of course the hardest to reach, but a lot of that has to do with being lied to, hence this thread. They are not idiots. They know that the way Genesis is taught by the mainstream does not add up.

Hmmm... don't agree that "the planet is set for termination." As I see it, the Lord has taken over management and will eventually bring the world to a state of perfection. I can understand why people would have a hard time seeing it... particularly in places that are in decline, like America.

As for a 'repair program,' I think that's just adoption. The Bible teaches that those who believe like Abraham, are adopted to Abraham. And so Abraham becomes a 'father of nations.' And Abraham has a blood covenant with God, so being a child of Abraham is tantamount to being a child of God (and vice versa).

It is literal. In other words, EVERYONE (except Jesus of course) is descended from the Devil. That is the hardcore reality of it. Like I said, our genetics are corrupt. No one is special. Abraham's Seed is *not* about human bloodlines and whether folks are 'chosen' or not. Abraham's Seed is *one* genotype:

In other words, the whole point of Abraham and the Twelve Tribes is to tell the tale of the *promise* of the upgraded genome. Possibly a 'Twelve Base' construct. We don't have that yet obviously. Abraham is the archetype of the Father in Heaven. Sarah is New Jerusalem.

*All of us* on the planet are metaphorically born of Hagar. She is the archetype for corrupt genetics on our mother's side. To put it bluntly:

• Devil = Corrupt Father/Sperm
• Hagar = Corrupt Mother/Ovum

Hence, we all *literally* must be born again. We have to be re-conceived of new parents into the new 'upgraded' genome that the Bible describes using symbolic language. So we get:

• Abraham = Non Corrupt Father/Sperm
• Sarah = Non Corrupt Mother/Ovum

These are real, tangible, quantifiable things describing the most intimate details of DNA, Particle Physics, Quantum Mechanics, etc. that have no business being in a book thousands of years old. Yet, there it is. I am simply on the cutting edge of these discoveries thanks to some brilliant people out there that taught me. This will all be mainstream one day once the AI gets wind of it.

I don't know that it's literal, but it's true nonetheless that heredity ought not to be determined by genealogies and instead determined by behavior and adoption.

Paul spends some time on Hagar vs Sarah - the Slave vs the Free. We can call it types and antitypes, or symbolism, or whatever name you like. The truth of it remains, whether literal or no.

The Garden of Eden is symbolic of a womb (Jerusalem) with the 'Mountain of God' being the 'Male Generative Principle' or phalus that 'fertilizes' the Ovum Tree of Life with its 'mayim' seminal fluid.

View attachment 80263​

The Devil fertilized the other ovum tree of knowledge. He was 'cast out' ('vomited out') of the phalus. Get it?

I don't interpret it that way.

As I see it, Mayim (waters) and the two Canaanite water deities (Tehown, Behemoth) in Genesis 1 are fundamentally chaotic, perhaps the embodiment of the idea of Chaos. Elohim (God) is their opponent - he brings Order to chaos. He is wind and spirit and sky, opposed to water and soul and ocean.

Order trumps Chaos. The creation is a function of God impressing order onto a chaotic universe.

Stones of Fire, Phosphorus/Lucifer/Fallen Angels/Falling Stars.

It's all there in front of people's faces. They just don't see it yet. They will when the time is right.

How I see it:

Sun = King = Masculine = Father = Male Seed
Moon = High Priest = Mother = Feminine = Female Seed
Stars = Prophet = Child = Zygote

You're in the right book and chapter. Ezekiel is certainly Genesis' companion. It references it often, and usually not with the interpretations that mainstream Christianity embraces. Oops

Not all stars are fallen stars. But the fallen stars are notable.

I find myself more versed in the primary meanings of these chapters, where you are more interested in the supernal meaning. The king of Tyre IS Lucifer and διάβολος, literally the accuser and opposition, especially at the time where Ezra and Nehemiah are moving to re-build the Temple and kingdom of Israel. He takes with him a third of the מַלְאָכִים (mala'akim is typically translated as 'angels' but it refers first to the kings of city-states in ancient Canaan).

Yeah, there is a lot of overlap. Christians tend to by hyper paranoid and extremely superstitious every time they hear something they never heard before. Guilty until proven innocent is their MO.

Is grass green? "That's of the Devil!"

Is the sky blue? "Oh, you better believe that's demonic!!"

Is water wet? "Blasphemy!!!" "Stone him!!!"

It's so tiresome.

Sheep follow shepherds. I have a lot of grace for sheep who are only relying on their shepherds, but I do find it sad when they follow AN inferior shepherd rather than THE Good Shepherd.

1Enoch has a lot to say about this...

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi @Adventageous . Let's see what you have here.



I agree. Moreover, I can prove it. So far, no one that I have seen anywhere has been able to do it. That includes you.



That is incorrect. You misunderstood the OP. Many, including scholars, view Genesis 1 and 2 as being contradictory:

View attachment 80261​

The purpose of this thread is to prove them wrong, which I have done successfully. No one else has as far as I know.



Your statement is quite ironic.



None of the above debunks the OP in any way.



Not only have you not proven that I have 'such confusion in the matter', but you also decided to add an insult which just makes you look that much worse. That is not the way to debate.



You are rambling again.



Still rambling...



Still rambling...



Still rambling...



Honestly, I would rather have root canals all day.



OK, now you are crossing the line. These aren't 'my rules', they are God's rules which I already stated in post #8. I suspect you are not able to follow them which is why you haven't bothered with the challenge.



No. In fact, you should just put me on ignore since it's obvious that interacting with you is painfully unfruitful. I'd hate to have to read anymore of your over the top condescending rhetoric.

Again, you have proven nothing with all of that puffing up you did. Learn to debate. You are at level "Ad-Hominem"...

View attachment 80260​

@Wrangler is just above you at "Responding to the Tone" level.

Genesis 1 and 2 IS contradictory.

We Christians like to sugar coat everything,,,,,
as attested to by some of these threads.

The reason they're contradictory is because no one was present at the creation.
It's REVELATION...
it's is NOT history.

Some like to take every single word of the OT literally...
this is their right and I will never get in their way.
It seems to be necessary to their very faith that God actually wroteù
every single word.

So, yes. Snakes to not talk.
A snake reprented evil at the time Genesis was written...
so evil tempted Eve. Not a snake.

We should not be debating anything in the bible that is not LITERAL.

That is my OPINION...
and I know it will disturb many....
they'll say that I don't believe the bible is INSPIRED.
Wish we all knew what Inspired means.

I DO want to say that we cannot be certain what DAY means.
Jewish scholars seem to be unsure of this, but I don't know enough about
the debate to be able to discuss it. I just know that it IS debatable.

Also, re YOU SHALL SURELY DIE.

I DO believe it means our relationship with God for a very simple reason:
The writer of Genesis was "looking back". He KNEW that A and E did not physically die...
so why write that they did?
It would have removed all belief in this teaching...
which is what Genesis 1 - 3 is doing...teaching man something,
that, miraculously, is true.

Yes. I believe death there does refer to spiritual death.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yikes. I've run up against 'guilty by association' arguments, too. That sucks.

Hmmm... don't agree that "the planet is set for termination." As I see it, the Lord has taken over management and will eventually bring the world to a state of perfection. I can understand why people would have a hard time seeing it... particularly in places that are in decline, like America.

As for a 'repair program,' I think that's just adoption. The Bible teaches that those who believe like Abraham, are adopted to Abraham. And so Abraham becomes a 'father of nations.' And Abraham has a blood covenant with God, so being a child of Abraham is tantamount to being a child of God (and vice versa).

I don't know that it's literal, but it's true nonetheless that heredity ought not to be determined by genealogies and instead determined by behavior and adoption.

Paul spends some time on Hagar vs Sarah - the Slave vs the Free. We can call it types and antitypes, or symbolism, or whatever name you like. The truth of it remains, whether literal or no.

I don't interpret it that way.

As I see it, Mayim (waters) and the two Canaanite water deities (Tehown, Behemoth) in Genesis 1 are fundamentally chaotic, perhaps the embodiment of the idea of Chaos. Elohim (God) is their opponent - he brings Order to chaos. He is wind and spirit and sky, opposed to water and soul and ocean.

Order trumps Chaos. The creation is a function of God impressing order onto a chaotic universe.

You're in the right book and chapter. Ezekiel is certainly Genesis' companion. It references it often, and usually not with the interpretations that mainstream Christianity embraces. Oops

Not all stars are fallen stars. But the fallen stars are notable.

I find myself more versed in the primary meanings of these chapters, where you are more interested in the supernal meaning. The king of Tyre IS Lucifer and διάβολος, literally the accuser and opposition, especially at the time where Ezra and Nehemiah are moving to re-build the Temple and kingdom of Israel. He takes with him a third of the מַלְאָכִים (mala'akim is typically translated as 'angels' but it refers first to the kings of city-states in ancient Canaan).

Sheep follow shepherds. I have a lot of grace for sheep who are only relying on their shepherds, but I do find it sad when they follow AN inferior shepherd rather than THE Good Shepherd.

1Enoch has a lot to say about this...

You're right that some see the earth as ultimately coming to a dystopian end.
And some see mankind becoming more and more perfected.

Indeed, christianity did bring civility into the cultures of the middle ages.

But why I believe we will never be perfected is because:

1. Man's nature has remained the same thorughout thousands of years.

2. If man's nature does not change...no amount of technology will be of help.
Technology will become more perfected - we might have the cure for cancer one day - but our nature is not changing.

3. Christianity seems to be on waining. Isn't it Christianity that is supposed to make man perfect by following Jesus?

 

[GodsGrace]

I am leaving this thread, since my offer was refused. There is no point in me staying here to waste the precious time purchased by the blood of the son of the Father.

You told the OP that he is not spiritually minded but carnally minded.

This is rather insulting to a person that may be very spiritual.
How can we know anyone that well as to make such a statement.....a person that is just posting on a board?

I get this all the time...
it become tiring to respond to persons that are so personal instead of sticking to the subject.
As you know, I had to leave my very own thread due to personal attacks.
It shouldn't get personal.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're fine.



Great point. I agree. There are too many people that get 'big headed' about bloodlines and being 'descended from royalty', etc. who think their DNA is better than everyone else's and so that makes them entitled to some high position of power. I've had people email me over the years trying to get me to join their 'aryan race' club. It's ridiculous.

What the Bible is ultimately teaching is that the planet is set for termination. Why? Because the genetics of the planet has been corrupted so badly it has become a threat to anything and everything, even to the Heavenly realms. That is the story Scripture is trying to teach in a delicate, yet stern manner. The real Good News of the Bible is that there is a 'repair program' that will correct said genetics and fix the mess that began in the Garden of Eden.

It is that 'repair program' that I am fascinated with. I want to show folks, mainly non-believers, that they can make a more informed decision on whether they wish to join the program or not. Athiests are of course the hardest to reach, but a lot of that has to do with being lied to, hence this thread. They are not idiots. They know that the way Genesis is taught by the mainstream does not add up.



Pretty much every Christian I have spoken to gets furious with me for me for believing what Jesus said here:



It is literal. In other words, EVERYONE (except Jesus of course) is descended from the Devil. That is the hardcore reality of it. Like I said, our genetics are corrupt. No one is special. Abraham's Seed is *not* about human bloodlines and whether folks are 'chosen' or not. Abraham's Seed is *one* genotype:



In other words, the whole point of Abraham and the Twelve Tribes is to tell the tale of the *promise* of the upgraded genome. Possibly a 'Twelve Base' construct. We don't have that yet obviously. Abraham is the archetype of the Father in Heaven. Sarah is New Jerusalem.

*All of us* on the planet are metaphorically born of Hagar. She is the archetype for corrupt genetics on our mother's side. To put it bluntly:

• Devil = Corrupt Father/Sperm
• Hagar = Corrupt Mother/Ovum

Hence, we all *literally* must be born again. We have to be re-conceived of new parents into the new 'upgraded' genome that the Bible describes using symbolic language. So we get:

• Abraham = Non Corrupt Father/Sperm
• Sarah = Non Corrupt Mother/Ovum

These are real, tangible, quantifiable things describing the most intimate details of DNA, Particle Physics, Quantum Mechanics, etc. that have no business being in a book thousands of years old. Yet, there it is. I am simply on the cutting edge of these discoveries thanks to some brilliant people out there that taught me. This will all be mainstream one day once the AI gets wind of it.



Right. I usually simplify the four levels and call it 'meat' vs. 'milk'.

What is so funny is that the Mystery is revealed right in the name itself:

View attachment 80262
​

The Garden of Eden is symbolic of a womb (Jerusalem) with the 'Mountain of God' being the 'Male Generative Principle' or phalus that 'fertilizes' the Ovum Tree of Life with its 'mayim' seminal fluid.

View attachment 80263​

The Devil fertilized the other ovum tree of knowledge. He was 'cast out' ('vomited out') of the phalus. Get it?



Stones of Fire, Phosphorus/Lucifer/Fallen Angels/Falling Stars.

It's all there in front of people's faces. They just don't see it yet. They will when the time is right.



How I see it:

Sun = King = Masculine = Father = Male Seed
Moon = High Priest = Mother = Feminine = Female Seed
Stars = Prophet = Child = Zygote

Example:

The 'Woman of the Apocalypse' is symbolic of the Moon/Mother/Female Seed. She is clothed with the Sun/Masculine/Male Seed. It is a picture of conception. Fertilization takes place when the two are joined and thus the Twelve Stars become twelve Zygotes.

It's all about 'Her Seed' that began in the Garden of Eden. So, again, it's not about 'my DNA is better than yours'. It's about Abraham's Seed singular, i.e., the Messiah vs the 'Seed of the Serpent' from which we are all conceived from.



Yeah, there is a lot of overlap. Christians tend to by hyper paranoid and extremely superstitious every time they hear something they never heard before. Guilty until proven innocent is their MO.

Is grass green? "That's of the Devil!"

Is the sky blue? "Oh, you better believe that's demonic!!"

Is water wet? "Blasphemy!!!" "Stone him!!!"

It's so tiresome.

Just a comment on the above....haven't even read all of it...
you're a little too deep for 9AM!

You said that you say we are descended from the devil....
I would hesitate to say it that way....
I like to refer to the sin nature and how man has been corrupted - as you stated that the earth is also, which is absolutely correct...Romans 8...even nature is waiting for the redemption.

I DO agree with you about making men/Christianity sound foolish by accepting all of the OT as literal.

It has been proven achealogically that Jericho's wall did fall.
(it was believed for a long time that Jericho did not even exist)

But can we BE CERTAIN that men walked around it ...
and what did the writer mean by that anyway?


We use some expressions today that will be difficult for someone thousands of years from now to decipher.
GIVE ME SOME SPACE would be one. What does that mean anyway?? So many more I can't even think of right now.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi @ScottA . Welcome to the thread.

If you could do a verse by verse commentary similar to mine, then we can see where 'I messed up'.

This applies to everyone reading this.

And just so that we are all clear in our understanding here, the name 'Eve' does not show up until Genesis 3:20:



This is a fact that cannot be changed. Nowhere is the name Eve mentioned before that. It looks like you made a false assumption.

Since I already did the challenge, I can summarize what I already posted:

• The First Adam was created on the Third Day. We could be looking at a form of Kenosis here.
• The first woman was created from his rib.
• The First Adam named this newly created creature 'Ishshah' or Woman. (Ishshah taken from Ish).
• The couple are immortal. They are 'naked' because they are Spirit and Soul only.
• They have no reproductive organs, thus 'they were not ashamed'.
• They have no physical body. This is how all are resurrected by the way.
• The Body comes later depending on which 'fruit' or zygote one chooses to make a covenant with.
• Tree of Life Zygote Fruit = Glorified Body. Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil Zygote Fruit = Corrupt Body.
• Both trees represent conception. Being born again is a literal, physical process involving real physical biology.
• The First Adam and Ishshah chose to be clothed with a corrupt body. The price is *REAL* death.
• After partaking of the Forbidden Fruit, they both died within a 24hr period, i.e., the Sixth Day.
• This was a real death, not pixie dust, unicorn, false dogma, so called 'spiritual fake news death'.
• They have now returned to the dust of the ground.
• They are sent to Hell where they gain the knowledge of good and evil.
• Thus, the knowledge of good and evil is something that is learned the hard way in the afterlife as an unredeemed sinner.
• The Tree of Life/Wisdom is the easy way to understanding. Wisdom vs. Knowledge.
• After suffering in Hell, God resurrects the couple. This is the Resurrection of Damnation.
• Their eyes are opened physically and metaphorically because they were 'sleeping the sleep of death'.
• They now know what being 'naked' means. It means they have no physical body.
• Their new genes, inherited from the Forbidden Fruit, gives them reproductive organs.
• These new reproductive organs are called 'shame'. All of us are born with shame.
• God then 'clothes them' with a physical body on the Sixth Day.
• This brand new couple now has the same corrupt bodies we have now. They have become mortal.
• Thus the Adam that was created on the Sixth Day is not the exact same Adam that was created on the Third Day.
• The woman created from the rib is not the same as the one created from the Forbidden Fruit.
• The new Adam named his wife 'Eve' because again, she is a new creature not made from a rib.

The seasoned student must go back and read the account again and again without changing words to see it. It can take a while to 'unbrainwash' from all of the corruption one has accumulated. It could take a lifetime. It took me several decades. False teachings are often hard to let go.

Once completed however, the student will be rewarded with the TRUE understanding of what Hell and the Lake of Fire are all about.

God is Love. Christians are taught the exact opposite. Christians are taught the most evil and degenerate hatred imaginable about 'infinite torments' and 'annihilation'. Christians teach that God is more evil than Satan. This thread serves to correct that. Why am I hated for it? I know why.

Hmmmm.

A lot up there that is not Christian theology.

Are you one of those persons that is attempting to CHANGE Christian theology??

If so, our conversation will come to an abrupt end.

 

[GodsGrace]

I learned this today, always trying to learn to grow. Follow the bread crumbs.

Make sure you check out what you get on YouTube with scripture.
It's not always correct theology.

 

[ScottA]

I DO want to say that we cannot be certain what DAY means.
Jewish scholars seem to be unsure of this, but I don't know enough about
the debate to be able to discuss it. I just know that it IS debatable.

If I may...

Daniel [by God] defines "day" as "time" in the saying "a time, times, and half a time." Wherein he states (or summarizes) all the times of his people--not excluding Adam or any adopted into Abraham--first stated as a multiple of "seven." Which is also what Jesus did in saying, "today and tomorrow I do cures and perform miracles, and the third day I shall be perfected." In other words, in scripture, "seven", "three", and "time" are often synonymous.

What does that mean overall? It's a big subject.

 

[GodsGrace]

If I may...

Daniel [by God] defines "day" as "time" in the saying "a time, times, and half a time." Wherein he states (or summarizes) all the times of his people--not excluding Adam or any adopted into Abraham--first stated as a multiple of "seven." Which is also what Jesus did in saying, "today and tomorrow I do cures and perform miracles, and the third day I shall be perfected." In other words, in scripture, "seven", "three", and "time" are often synonymous.

What does that mean overall? It's a big subject.

I can't really add anything.
I do know that Jewish scholars speak of another place in Genesis, can't remember where, that speaks of a day as not being 24 hours...as we would understand a day to be and, indeed, as the rest of scripture defines as a day - even if broken up as the Jews did...6AM to 12PM, etc.

It might even be 6AM to 9AM, etc.

Do you know?
Jesus dying on the cross at 3 PM has something to do with this...
it's the same time that the sacrifices were going on at the temple inside Jerusalem.

(so much to know).

 

[Wick Stick]

You're right that some see the earth as ultimately coming to a dystopian end.
And some see mankind becoming more and more perfected.

Indeed, christianity did bring civility into the cultures of the middle ages.

But why I believe we will never be perfected is because:

1. Man's nature has remained the same thorughout thousands of years.

2. If man's nature does not change...no amount of technology will be of help.
Technology will become more perfected - we might have the cure for cancer one day - but our nature is not changing.

3. Christianity seems to be on waining.

Mankind has more than one nature. We all have two, and they don't agree.

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

It isn't only the Bible that says so. The Greek philosophers wrote extensively about the 'higher' and 'lower' natures of men.

Anyway, if that's true, then hope remains for humanity. There IS something wicked in us, but there's also something of greatness and excellence. Some will embrace the darkness. Some will embrace the light. Most of us will struggle between the two to navigate to the best of our ability.

Isn't it Christianity that is supposed to make man perfect by following Jesus?

The church certainly has taught it.

I think that the church is much like the Israel of the Old Testament. By which I mean, it isn't much different from the rest of the world, until you get down to those 7,000 who haven't bent the knee to the Baals. There was a remnant within Israel that was righteous... they were the real Israel hidden in the larger Israel. Likewise, there is a remnant within the church that practices righteousness... the real church among the larger group.

 

[Wick Stick]

If I may...

Daniel [by God] defines "day" as "time" in the saying "a time, times, and half a time." Wherein he states (or summarizes) all the times of his people--not excluding Adam or any adopted into Abraham--first stated as a multiple of "seven." Which is also what Jesus did in saying, "today and tomorrow I do cures and perform miracles, and the third day I shall be perfected." In other words, in scripture, "seven", "three", and "time" are often synonymous.

What does that mean overall? It's a big subject.

The meaning of numbers isn't so tough understand. They're often literal, but when they're not...

"Three" expresses the idea of "few" or "not many."
"Twelve" is the opposite idea - "a great number" or "many."

This is on display in the accountings of the battles Israel had. Whenever they take "12,000" men to battle they win. Whenever they take "3,000" they lose. The only exception is the story of Gideon, where he brings 300 men and wins, but that's kind of the point of the story - God only needed a few to prevail.

"Seven" expresses the idea of completing something. It's about persisting, or multiple efforts.