GENTILES NOT IN THE BODY OF CHRIST

[Doug]

Doug, can you support this claim from scripture? Many have tried, but none have succeeded.

The kingdom of God is heaven and earth. 1 Chronicles 29:11 Matthew 6:10
The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom from heaven coming down to the earth, Christ will reign from Jerusalem for the thousand years. Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 Revelation 20:4
The kingdom of heaven will be entered by the believing remnant of Israel. Luke 22:29-30 Revelation 5:10 Daniel 7:18 Luke 12:31-32

 

[Jay Ross]

The kingdom of God is heaven and earth. 1 Chronicles 29:11 Matthew 6:10
The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom from heaven coming down to the earth, Christ will reign from Jerusalem for the thousand years. Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 Revelation 20:4
The kingdom of heaven will be entered by the believing remnant of Israel. Luke 22:29-30 Revelation 5:10 Daniel 7:18 Luke 12:31-32

Doug, what you have posted is from the Bible, but the interpretation that you have placed on these scriptures that you have referenced, does not stack up without establishing the timeline of when you believe these biblical verse will prophetically occur.

Take for instance, Daniel 7:18, When do you consider that the prophecy contained in this verse will occur? You provided no conclusion as to when you consider this verse will occur. The same is also true for Revelation 21-22, When do you see these two chapters occurring?

Doug, what you have provided is your hope that these references back up your posts. Sadly, I do not see it that way.

 

[OzSpen]

The kingdom of God is heaven and earth. 1 Chronicles 29:11 Matthew 6:10
The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom from heaven coming down to the earth, Christ will reign from Jerusalem for the thousand years. Revelation 21 and Revelation 22 Revelation 20:4
The kingdom of heaven will be entered by the believing remnant of Israel. Luke 22:29-30 Revelation 5:10 Daniel 7:18 Luke 12:31-32

Doug,

• 1 Chronicles 29:10-11 (ESV) states: ' Therefore David blessed the Lord in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: “Blessed are you, O Lord, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. 11 Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all'.

This does not state the kingdom of God is heaven and earth. It indicates the the King of all the earth and heavens is God Himself.

• Matt 6:10 (ESV): 'Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' The ESV gives the alternate translation: 'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done'. Nothing stated here about the kingdom of God being heaven and earth. It is the prayer that God's will be done on earth AND in heaven. We are guaranteed of that because of who God is.

With the other Scriptures you have perpetrated similar eisegesis. You have made them mean what you want them to say.

I'm not interested in continuing this unreasonable dialogue.

Oz

 

[Doug]

Doug, what you have posted is from the Bible, but the interpretation that you have placed on these scriptures that you have referenced, does not stack up without establishing the timeline of when you believe these biblical verse will prophetically occur.

Take for instance, Daniel 7:18, When do you consider that the prophecy contained in this verse will occur? You provided no conclusion as to when you consider this verse will occur. The same is also true for Revelation 21-22, When do you see these two chapters occurring?

Doug, what you have provided is your hope that these references back up your posts. Sadly, I do not see it that way.

I was responding to this post:
So is entering the kingdom on earth different from entering the kingdom of God/heaven?

A timeline was not relevant, however since you asked, the kingdom on earth will be established after the tribulation at the coming of Christ.

 

[Doug]

Doug,

• 1 Chronicles 29:10-11 (ESV) states: ' Therefore David blessed the Lord in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: “Blessed are you, O Lord, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. 11 Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all'.

This does not state the kingdom of God is heaven and earth. It indicates the the King of all the earth and heavens is God Himself.

• Matt 6:10 (ESV): 'Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' The ESV gives the alternate translation: 'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done'. Nothing stated here about the kingdom of God being heaven and earth. It is the prayer that God's will be done on earth AND in heaven. We are guaranteed of that because of who God is.

With the other Scriptures you have perpetrated similar eisegesis. You have made them mean what you want them to say.

I'm not interested in continuing this unreasonable dialogue.

Oz

Very well

The last thing I will say is, here is Chronicles 29:11 in the KJV
Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine ; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Notice the semi colon between thine and thine.

Here is the verse in the ESV
Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours . Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all.

Notice the period in the verse you gave between yours and yours.

A semi colon denotes a pause between the joining of two complete thoughts.
The ESV erodes the fact that heaven and earth constitute the kingdom.

Here is Matthew 6:10 in the KJV
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matt 6:10 (ESV): 'Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' The ESV gives the alternate translation: 'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done'.

This translation removes "in earth, as it is in heaven". This is significant because the kingdom is described as being in the earth...an earthly kingdom reflecting the will of God just as it is in heaven.

 

[OzSpen]

Very well

The last thing I will say is, here is Chronicles 29:11 in the KJV
Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine ; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

Notice the semi colon between thine and thine.

Here is the verse in the ESV
Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours . Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all.

Notice the period in the verse you gave between yours and yours.

A semi colon denotes a pause between the joining of two complete thoughts.
The ESV erodes the fact that heaven and earth constitute the kingdom.

Here is Matthew 6:10 in the KJV
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matt 6:10 (ESV): 'Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.' The ESV gives the alternate translation: 'Let your kingdom come, let your will be done'.

This translation removes "in earth, as it is in heaven". This is significant because the kingdom is described as being in the earth...an earthly kingdom reflecting the will of God just as it is in heaven.

Doug,

Nice try! However, there are no punctuation marks in the original languages so what you say about the semi-colon and full stop (period) has no basis in determining the meaning.

As for Matt 6:10 (THGNT), please translate it for me: ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς

Oz

 

[Doug]

Doug,

Nice try! However, there are no punctuation marks in the original languages so what you say about the semi-colon and full stop (period) has no basis in determining the meaning.

As for Matt 6:10 (THGNT), please translate it for me: ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς

Oz

The KJV translation is conveying scripture in English and utilizes our rules of grammar using periods, semicolons, colons etc to do so.

What is important about Matthew 6:10 is that the translation you cited removes heaven and earth

 

[OzSpen]

The KJV translation is conveying scripture in English and utilizes our rules of grammar using periods, semicolons, colons etc to do so.

What is important about Matthew 6:10 is that the translation you cited removes heaven and earth

Doug,

The OT and NT in the original languages did not use punctuation marks. For ease of understanding, they are inserted by the translators - including the KJV.

I asked you to translate Matt 6:10 from the Greek NT: ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς

You haven't done it. Am I correct in concluding you don't know NT Greek to be able to translate it?

The translation I gave you of Matt 6:10 (ESV) does include heaven and earth: 'Your kingdom come, your will be done, in earth as it is in heaven'.

Are you not able to read the English I post?

Oz