Get Rapture Ready or will you be be left Behind?

[Trekson]

and: we must play with the text to insert a gap that is not there for it to make any sense, how can we not take a step back and look at it with fresh eyes?

The gap is there in plain site and no one has to play with the text at all because the text when understood correctly, explains it all but you just don't want to see it. Historically, it can be proven that the 69 weeks ended as prophesied. There is nothing that can prove the 70th week began or that all of the parameters of vs. 24 were met...ergo, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Naomi25]

1Cor 15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So, I'm unclear on what you're actually saying here. You said: "no men do not receive their new bodies up "there". Men are raised up out and off the earth in glorified bodies.
Men remaining on earth, with earthly eyes will not SEE a bunch of glorified bodies rising up to the clouds.

I see scripture saying that at the time of the 'Rapture'...that occasion where Christ pulls believers 'asleep' in him, and those still alive in him, up to meet him in the clouds, is the moment when we shall, "put on the imperishable". Does that happen as well the ground, on the way up, or once we get there? I don't know, the bible doesn't give us that much detail, and I'm not sure it matters. But I'm not sure what your objection is or what it has to do with other people 'seeing' it.

Um ... Heaven, Clouds/air, earth...Scripture is pretty clear those are not the same places...as well Scripture is clear the Lord Jesus appears in each place.

You do realise that one must pass through the heavens/air/clouds in order to reach earth? And just because one account mentions one rather than the other in it's point of focus does not mean it is not speaking of the same event? How do we know whether its the same event? Because of what it is focusing on, beyond the 'descending' location. If the bible tells us that Christ's parousia is when he raises the dead, judges all people and remakes the cosmos, then how are we going to take similar references to his parousia as a different time period?

Well I didn't say Hover.

Well the implication was there, and it's just bizarre and illogical enough that I'd hoped you would clarify...

And how did you conclude that?

There is nothing that says Jesus returns from the Clouds and goes back to Heaven.

There is nothing that says Jesus is ON the Earth when Power is given the antichrist or during God pouring out His Wrath and Indignation upon the earth....

But what Scripture does say is His Church, once called up to the Clouds ARE forever with the Lord.

Nothing says you have to be called up, since You almost seem perturbed by the notion.

Actually, I heartily agree with you. I don't think any scripture says that once Jesus returns with the clouds that he goes back to heaven. I think scripture teaches that when Jesus returns, that's it.
Also, I agree that the bible doesn't say that Jesus is on earth when power is given the AC, as I see his return being descibed as a single event that happens at the end of history.
And John 14 says that once Jesus comes to collect those who are his, they are forever with him...wherever he is.

Why do you think?
A sentiment I would have to agree with, by the way, but you know...

What, so we agree? Dispensationalism is in error?

Word of wisdom.
You do your thinking with your carnal mind.
The Carnal Mind is Against God.

Yeah. Mmmhmm. Ta.

 

[farouk]

So, I'm unclear on what you're actually saying here. You said: "no men do not receive their new bodies up "there". Men are raised up out and off the earth in glorified bodies.
Men remaining on earth, with earthly eyes will not SEE a bunch of glorified bodies rising up to the clouds.

I see scripture saying that at the time of the 'Rapture'...that occasion where Christ pulls believers 'asleep' in him, and those still alive in him, up to meet him in the clouds, is the moment when we shall, "put on the imperishable". Does that happen as well the ground, on the way up, or once we get there? I don't know, the bible doesn't give us that much detail, and I'm not sure it matters. But I'm not sure what your objection is or what it has to do with other people 'seeing' it.



You do realise that one must pass through the heavens/air/clouds in order to reach earth? And just because one account mentions one rather than the other in it's point of focus does not mean it is not speaking of the same event? How do we know whether its the same event? Because of what it is focusing on, beyond the 'descending' location. If the bible tells us that Christ's parousia is when he raises the dead, judges all people and remakes the cosmos, then how are we going to take similar references to his parousia as a different time period?


Well the implication was there, and it's just bizarre and illogical enough that I'd hoped you would clarify...


Actually, I heartily agree with you. I don't think any scripture says that once Jesus returns with the clouds that he goes back to heaven. I think scripture teaches that when Jesus returns, that's it.
Also, I agree that the bible doesn't say that Jesus is on earth when power is given the AC, as I see his return being descibed as a single event that happens at the end of history.
And John 14 says that once Jesus comes to collect those who are his, they are forever with him...wherever he is.


What, so we agree? Dispensationalism is in error?


Yeah. Mmmhmm. Ta.

Well, I don't see the rapture as illogical at all, actually; it's the logical conclusion and result of the believer's separation from the world: what is true in principle becomes true in practice also.

 

[Taken]

So, I'm unclear on what you're actually saying here. You said: "no men do not receive their new bodies up "there". Men are raised up out and off the earth in glorified bodies.
Men remaining on earth, with earthly eyes will not SEE a bunch of glorified bodies rising up to the clouds.

Correct

see scripture saying that at the time of the 'Rapture'...that occasion where Christ pulls believers 'asleep' in him, and those still alive in him, up to meet him in the clouds, is the moment when we shall, "put on the imperishable". Does that happen as well the ground, on the way up, or once we get there? I don't know, the bible doesn't give us that much detail, and I'm not sure it matters.

In the ground, Dead aka asleep,raised out of the ground in a glorified body.

Still alive ? body CHANGED raised up.

You do realise that one must pass through the heavens/air/clouds in order to reach earth?

It is not complicated...
Jesus IS in heaven.
Jesus descends to the Clouds.
...IS this Jesus returning to Earth? no.
Jesus' Church is redeemed up to Him.
Tribulation ending.
Jesus returns to Earth.
...IS this Jesus returning to Earth? Yes

And just because one account mentions one rather than the other in it's point of focus does not mean it is not speaking of the same event? How do we know whether its the same event? Because of what it is focusing on, beyond the 'descending' location. If the bible tells us that Christ's parousia is when he raises the dead, judges all people and remakes the cosmos, then how are we going to take similar references to his parousia as a different time period?

Order and Context and Study.

One Verse does not tell the whole order or whole context.

What, so we agree? Dispensationalism is in error?

I'm not a NAMETAG fan. So couldn't say.

I perfer the simple..."I'm converted in Christ Jesus and Trust all Scripture is True"...works for me.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

The gap is there in plain site and no one has to play with the text at all because the text when understood correctly, explains it all but you just don't want to see it. Historically, it can be proven that the 69 weeks ended as prophesied. There is nothing that can prove the 70th week began or that all of the parameters of vs. 24 were met...ergo, it hasn't happened yet.

Plain sight? Perhaps, if you were talking about the dead space in-between a full stop and the next sentence. I heartily disagree, both with your interpretation and conclusion. But I don't think me taking the time to lay out the theological process is getting anywhere, and I have other demands on my time.

 

[Naomi25]

Well, I don't see the rapture as illogical at all, actually; it's the logical conclusion and result of the believer's separation from the world: what is true in principle becomes true in practice also.

It's not the Rapture I see as illogical, I see scripture as clear on the topic. What I was unclear on was Taken's point.

 

[Naomi25]

Correct

In the ground, Dead aka asleep,raised out of the ground in a glorified body.

Still alive ? body CHANGED raised up.

Still unsure how what you're trying to say is essentially different to what I said, really.

It is not complicated...
Jesus IS in heaven.
Jesus descends to the Clouds.
...IS this Jesus returning to Earth? no.
Jesus' Church is redeemed up to Him.
Tribulation ending.
Jesus returns to Earth.
...IS this Jesus returning to Earth? Yes

Okay. Let's follow this through. According to your logic.
Where is Jesus now?
According to Acts 1:9 he should be hovering in the clouds still....cause that's all it says. Even verses 10 and 11 don't say he WENT to heaven, only that the disciples were gazing up at heaven, which we know is just another word for the skies.
But of course we know from other scriptures that Jesus is, in fact, in heaven with his Father. And we know that it happened at that event, when he went up and was hidden by the clouds.
What this tells us is that what can be clearly known from other scriptures can be added, without error, to texts such as this. We can know, for sure, that the disciples saw Christ ascend to heaven. And that the angel told them he would come again in the same way.
So, being bible students, we can look at all the passages that talk of Christ's second coming and draw some conclusions from them. We can know that when he comes, he raptures the church. We can know that when he comes he raises the dead. When he comes he judges all mankind and puts to an end any rebellion against him. And when he comes, the heavens and earth pass away with a roar and dissolve.
How do we know these aren't separate events? Because they make reference to each other and they each use the same terms as the other passages. When we see reacurring terms like "day of the Lord", or "like a thief", or "at his coming (parousia)". If these were separate events, we should expect to see them described differently.

Order and Context and Study.

One Verse does not tell the whole order or whole context.

I'm not a NAMETAG fan. So couldn't say.

I perfer the simple..."I'm converted in Christ Jesus and Trust all Scripture is True"...works for me.

God Bless,
Taken

So claim we all, I suppose.

 

[Taken]

Still unsure how what you're trying to say is essentially different to what I said, really.


Okay. Let's follow this through. According to your logic.
Where is Jesus now?
According to Acts 1:9 he should be hovering in the clouds still....cause that's all it says. Even verses 10 and 11 don't say he WENT to heaven, only that the disciples were gazing up at heaven, which we know is just another word for the skies.
But of course we know from other scriptures that Jesus is, in fact, in heaven with his Father. And we know that it happened at that event, when he went up and was hidden by the clouds.
What this tells us is that what can be clearly known from other scriptures can be added, without error, to texts such as this. We can know, for sure, that the disciples saw Christ ascend to heaven. And that the angel told them he would come again in the same way.
So, being bible students, we can look at all the passages that talk of Christ's second coming and draw some conclusions from them. We can know that when he comes, he raptures the church. We can know that when he comes he raises the dead. When he comes he judges all mankind and puts to an end any rebellion against him. And when he comes, the heavens and earth pass away with a roar and dissolve.
How do we know these aren't separate events? Because they make reference to each other and they each use the same terms as the other passages. When we see reacurring terms like "day of the Lord", or "like a thief", or "at his coming (parousia)". If these were separate events, we should expect to see them described differently.

If you see everything as one big event, so be it for you. I don't.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

If you see everything as one big event, so be it for you. I don't.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thanks. I shall. I feel comfortable in how the scriptures fit together and feel God has led me to the conclusions I now sit in.