Get Rapture Ready or will you be be left Behind?

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Naomi25

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No, the popcorn is yours and others who like to mock those who hold to the Rapture with a strawman,.

See your post #(176). You said we are not to be sitting around idle. Who are your referring to if not those who hold to the Rapture?

It is not being overly sensitive. It is showing the hypocrisy of your and others strawman, and mockery, built on a lie.

Stranger

Still with the popcorn :D seems to have blown a gasket or two.
YOU asked me if I thought Christ could come at any moment. I gave MY opinion on whether people ought to be idle or not. I spoke for myself, for my beliefs. It had absolutely nothing to do with what I thought the beliefs of Dispensationalists have...you leapt to that conclusion all on you little biddy lonesome.
If strawmen are indeed built, it is not here...or perhaps they are, and it is by you. You have repeatedly accused me of things I have not done or said. :rolleyes: It's so over the top, in fact, that it's hilarious.
 

Stranger

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Still with the popcorn :D seems to have blown a gasket or two.
YOU asked me if I thought Christ could come at any moment. I gave MY opinion on whether people ought to be idle or not. I spoke for myself, for my beliefs. It had absolutely nothing to do with what I thought the beliefs of Dispensationalists have...you leapt to that conclusion all on you little biddy lonesome.
If strawmen are indeed built, it is not here...or perhaps they are, and it is by you. You have repeatedly accused me of things I have not done or said. :rolleyes: It's so over the top, in fact, that it's hilarious.

It had to do with those who hold to the Rapture. You know it, I know it.

You and others created your strawman. You sit and mock based on the lies you started. Yet you are hypocrites as you supposedly watch for the Second Coming of Christ.

So, get your popcorn, and go and wait on some hill, sitting idly by and wait for the Second Coming. That is if you believe in the Second Coming and that you should watch for it.

Stranger
 

Naomi25

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It had to do with those who hold to the Rapture. You know it, I know it.

You and others created your strawman. You sit and mock based on the lies you started. Yet you are hypocrites as you supposedly watch for the Second Coming of Christ.

So, get your popcorn, and go and wait on some hill, sitting idly by and wait for the Second Coming. That is if you believe in the Second Coming and that you should watch for it.

Stranger

Man...you have a serious bitterness problem. Maybe you need to get that checked out?
And no, I didn't know it had to do, specifically with those who hold to the Rapture. In case you hadn't noticed, other people are waiting for his return as well...that doesn't fall on you guys alone.
And, yes, while I certainly do question plenty of things about Dispensationalism, the reason I find all this so amusing is that the things you are going bananas over, just aren't some of them. Never have been. So, while you may have been having a conversation about this with others, your repeated accusations against me are nothing more than you spinning out of control. Get it together and stop accusing me of stuff I haven't done, or just walk away.
 

Trekson

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So, get your popcorn, and go and wait on some hill, sitting idly by and wait for the Second Coming. That is if you believe in the Second Coming and that you should watch for it.

Really dude!! The word "watch" simply means to be alert, vigilant, to be awake meaning not to be so overcome with the cares of this world that you ignore watching out for your soul. It also means to be aware of the signs that show us the latter days are near both general and specific and when we see them to know what they mean and what we should do at that time. Only a few idiotic cult members have lingered on hills waiting. I really don't understand people who refute the fact of the rapture (the timing of it is irrelevant to it being a fact) when it the description of it is mentioned in several verses.
 
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Stranger

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Man...you have a serious bitterness problem. Maybe you need to get that checked out?
And no, I didn't know it had to do, specifically with those who hold to the Rapture. In case you hadn't noticed, other people are waiting for his return as well...that doesn't fall on you guys alone.
And, yes, while I certainly do question plenty of things about Dispensationalism, the reason I find all this so amusing is that the things you are going bananas over, just aren't some of them. Never have been. So, while you may have been having a conversation about this with others, your repeated accusations against me are nothing more than you spinning out of control. Get it together and stop accusing me of stuff I haven't done, or just walk away.

Yeah, I know. I hate people who create a strawman and then stand back and mock that which they created so as to cast disdain on others. I am not accusing of something you didn't say. See post # (156, 157). (156) is not your post but is directed toward the Rapture. (157) is yours, and you are the one who got some popcorn to mock it.

Those who question we who hold to the Rapture, must question their belief in the Second Coming of Christ. Do you believe He can come at anytime and so we are to watch in anticipation of that coming? Or, do you believe some things must occur first in order for Christ to return? And if one believes that, why 'watch' in anticipation, as Christ could not come yet.

And, as I said, there is no difference in Christ rapturing His people out for the purpose of avoiding the Tribulation, then Christ returning to spare the elect the horrors of the Tribulation.

This makes those who mock the Rapture quite hypocritical in my opinion.

Stranger
 

Naomi25

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Yeah, I know. I hate people who create a strawman and then stand back and mock that which they created so as to cast disdain on others. I am not accusing of something you didn't say. See post # (156, 157). (156) is not your post but is directed toward the Rapture. (157) is yours, and you are the one who got some popcorn to mock it.
I don't disagree about strawman arguments. Dispensationalists tend to do that in regards to replacement theology, so I am well aware of the tactic.
But, you are, I'm afraid, accusing me of something I did not intend or, in fact, do. As I have repeatedly pointed out to you, my post #157, in which I mentioned the popcorn which seems to have offended you so much, had nothing to do with the Rapture at all, but only a passing comment on the rather ridiculous notion of the idea of seeing an alien space pod! Are you hearing me on this? You are going nuts over a random comment I made that had NO regard towards the Rapture, your thoughts on it, or my thoughts on your thoughts on it. There was zero mocking, and I can only come to the conclusion at this point, that you are either hard of hearing (after my repeated attempts to tell you this clearly), or you think I'm outright lying. Why I would, I don't know. I have no problem in calling out the issues with Dispensationalism as I see them. These things you've wigged out over are not some of them, however. Which leaves me wondering if its me you have a problem with.

Those who question we who hold to the Rapture, must question their belief in the Second Coming of Christ. Do you believe He can come at anytime and so we are to watch in anticipation of that coming? Or, do you believe some things must occur first in order for Christ to return? And if one believes that, why 'watch' in anticipation, as Christ could not come yet.
If I give you a serious answer, are you going to take it at face value? Or are you going to take it as some bizare attack? I don't question the Rapture, I question your timing of it. And I most certainly don't question the second coming. I believe he absolutely could come at any time and that there is no harm in watching in anticipation for his advent, but that as we watch we should be about his business here on earth, as he would have us do.

And, as I said, there is no difference in Christ rapturing His people out for the purpose of avoiding the Tribulation, then Christ returning to spare the elect the horrors of the Tribulation.
But, likewise, one can also say that if the bible says there will be tribulation experienced now, and tribulation experienced then, why the need for the Church to "go early"? Oh, I know the party line of the "Tribulation" being the time for Israel, and, how it's also the time of "God's wrath", and I don't accept, biblically, the weight of those arguments. No one has managed to show me biblical evidence that stands up under the weight of the other scriptures that leads to the conclusion that God brings us all together under Christ...one body and one salvational plan and saves us from ultimate wrath...salvationally; the day of judgement, not 7 years on earth.


This makes those who mock the Rapture quite hypocritical in my opinion.

Stranger

I have never mocked you for believing in the Rapture. I simply disagree with you, as you do with me. I give reasons, and I give scripture, for why I disagree with you. If that is reason enough for the sort of bitterness you've been spewing at me for the last several posts, then perhaps you need to take a look in the mirror before you talk about hypocrisy.
 

Stranger

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I don't disagree about strawman arguments. Dispensationalists tend to do that in regards to replacement theology, so I am well aware of the tactic.
But, you are, I'm afraid, accusing me of something I did not intend or, in fact, do. As I have repeatedly pointed out to you, my post #157, in which I mentioned the popcorn which seems to have offended you so much, had nothing to do with the Rapture at all, but only a passing comment on the rather ridiculous notion of the idea of seeing an alien space pod! Are you hearing me on this? You are going nuts over a random comment I made that had NO regard towards the Rapture, your thoughts on it, or my thoughts on your thoughts on it. There was zero mocking, and I can only come to the conclusion at this point, that you are either hard of hearing (after my repeated attempts to tell you this clearly), or you think I'm outright lying. Why I would, I don't know. I have no problem in calling out the issues with Dispensationalism as I see them. These things you've wigged out over are not some of them, however. Which leaves me wondering if its me you have a problem with.


If I give you a serious answer, are you going to take it at face value? Or are you going to take it as some bizare attack? I don't question the Rapture, I question your timing of it. And I most certainly don't question the second coming. I believe he absolutely could come at any time and that there is no harm in watching in anticipation for his advent, but that as we watch we should be about his business here on earth, as he would have us do.


But, likewise, one can also say that if the bible says there will be tribulation experienced now, and tribulation experienced then, why the need for the Church to "go early"? Oh, I know the party line of the "Tribulation" being the time for Israel, and, how it's also the time of "God's wrath", and I don't accept, biblically, the weight of those arguments. No one has managed to show me biblical evidence that stands up under the weight of the other scriptures that leads to the conclusion that God brings us all together under Christ...one body and one salvational plan and saves us from ultimate wrath...salvationally; the day of judgement, not 7 years on earth.




I have never mocked you for believing in the Rapture. I simply disagree with you, as you do with me. I give reasons, and I give scripture, for why I disagree with you. If that is reason enough for the sort of bitterness you've been spewing at me for the last several posts, then perhaps you need to take a look in the mirror before you talk about hypocrisy.

From what you have said in this post only, I would say you are not calling the Rapture what I call the Rapture. You have the appearance of calling the Rapture and the Second Coming the same thing. Is that correct? If so, then you don't hold to any Rapture.

So what are the 7 years on earth for? Or does 7 years not mean 7 years?

Stranger
 

Naomi25

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From what you have said in this post only, I would say you are not calling the Rapture what I call the Rapture. You have the appearance of calling the Rapture and the Second Coming the same thing. Is that correct? If so, then you don't hold to any Rapture.

So what are the 7 years on earth for? Or does 7 years not mean 7 years?

Stranger

You complain of others creating strawmen arguments against you, but then you go and try and tell me what I "hold to".
The Rapture, biblically, is that event where Paul describes Christians as "meeting the Lord in the air". The "dead in Christ will rise first", then those "who are alive and left" shall also meet him in the air. There, we shall all receive our new, resurrection bodies, as "the perishable cannot inherit the imperishable". Are you with me so far? Same event? Yes?
Where we differ is time, and direction. You think the Rapture must happen 7 years before the "end, end", and that those Raptured must continue up and spend those 7 years in heaven. I think the bible only speaks of a single return, and thus after the 'meeting in the air' event, the consumation of all things will happen. In other words, Christ will judge everyone and remake the earth, and...yes, we go back down. I often chuckled because Dispensationalists complain "that's stupid! We'd just be yoyos, going up, and then back down!" But, in reality, some one is going to be a yoyo...is it better for it to be us, or Christ?
As for your 7 years...don't see it in scripture.
 

Stranger

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You complain of others creating strawmen arguments against you, but then you go and try and tell me what I "hold to".
The Rapture, biblically, is that event where Paul describes Christians as "meeting the Lord in the air". The "dead in Christ will rise first", then those "who are alive and left" shall also meet him in the air. There, we shall all receive our new, resurrection bodies, as "the perishable cannot inherit the imperishable". Are you with me so far? Same event? Yes?
Where we differ is time, and direction. You think the Rapture must happen 7 years before the "end, end", and that those Raptured must continue up and spend those 7 years in heaven. I think the bible only speaks of a single return, and thus after the 'meeting in the air' event, the consumation of all things will happen. In other words, Christ will judge everyone and remake the earth, and...yes, we go back down. I often chuckled because Dispensationalists complain "that's stupid! We'd just be yoyos, going up, and then back down!" But, in reality, some one is going to be a yoyo...is it better for it to be us, or Christ?
As for your 7 years...don't see it in scripture.

I said that from what you said you have the 'appearance' of calling the Rapture and the Second Coming the same thing. It was an observation, not a strawman. And apparently from what you now tell me, the appearance was correct. You identify the Rapture as the Second Coming. Which, as I said, is not the Rapture.

How long is the one week of (Dan.9:27)

Stranger
 

Trekson

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I think the bible only speaks of a single return, and thus after the 'meeting in the air' event, the consumation of all things will happen.

I believe in the two part aspect of Christ's second coming (but not seven years between them) because we have two different pictures of His return.
Acts 1 :9-11 - "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven
." This is also pictured in Matt. 24:30 - "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." I believe this is a picture of the rapture (at some point within the context of the 70th week) and our arrival in heaven is found in Rev. 7:9

The second picture which in no way can be considered the same event is Rev. 19:11-16 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords." (no clouds depicted) This is a picture of His return for Armageddon and His victory to take back his earthly throne.
 

Naomi25

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I said that from what you said you have the 'appearance' of calling the Rapture and the Second Coming the same thing. It was an observation, not a strawman. And apparently from what you now tell me, the appearance was correct. You identify the Rapture as the Second Coming. Which, as I said, is not the Rapture.

How long is the one week of (Dan.9:27)

Stranger

So...the Rapture is not the Rapture unless it fits your timeline? Doesn't matter at all what the scripture actually says about it? Cause I'm pretty sure I hit all the scriptural highlights. But, just...nope? That's reasonable.

One week in Daniel? Well...you may be trying to get me to slip up and say "7 years", but...that's only how long you guys see it, sorry. Those of us who look at numbers symbolically take it just a little differently.
 

Naomi25

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I believe in the two part aspect of Christ's second coming (but not seven years between them) because we have two different pictures of His return.
Acts 1 :9-11 - "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven
." This is also pictured in Matt. 24:30 - "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." I believe this is a picture of the rapture (at some point within the context of the 70th week) and our arrival in heaven is found in Rev. 7:9

The second picture which in no way can be considered the same event is Rev. 19:11-16 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords." (no clouds depicted) This is a picture of His return for Armageddon and His victory to take back his earthly throne.

I grant you, the descriptions seem different, but I put to you that they are not fundamentally different. They all, do they not, describe Jesus descending down, out of heaven?
The key here, I believe, is that, like the gospels, we have to realise that for various reasons, the accounts are focusing on different areas of the same event. In Acts, all that was needed was a simple ipso facto remark: "easy your minds, just as you saw him ascend, you shall see him likewise descend." Simple.
Matthew gives us a little more detail, detail for the believer. What is going to be happening AT his coming? Ah! He will be coming with power to judge! To gather his children!
And then, in Revelation, we get the final picture, the most glorious picture...the bookend, if you will, to his 'triumphant' arrival in Jerusalem the first time. This time, however, we are told it will play out quite differently, especially for the unbeliever! When he descends from heaven to come for his own, he will not be riding a donkey (which is what a King would ride when they came "in peace") but a white horse! When a King rides a white horse it tells people he comes bent on war! This speaks of ultimate judgement for the wicked! Whether he literally rides a white horse or not I don't know...it's the intent here that is clear. But, regardless, we know this is not a separate event, because this event is also spoken of in Matt 24-25, in the same Olivet Discourse.
So...I see it as one event, but with the writers pointing out different aspects of it. After all...it will be seen quite differently depending what side you are on.
 

Stranger

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So...the Rapture is not the Rapture unless it fits your timeline? Doesn't matter at all what the scripture actually says about it? Cause I'm pretty sure I hit all the scriptural highlights. But, just...nope? That's reasonable.

One week in Daniel? Well...you may be trying to get me to slip up and say "7 years", but...that's only how long you guys see it, sorry. Those of us who look at numbers symbolically take it just a little differently.

You ask of me, 'it doesn't matter at all what the scripture actually says about it?' It does matter and Scripture does not identify the Rapture as the Second Coming.

You then say concerning the one week in (Daniel), you take the numbers in Scripture symbolically. Which in this case makes no sense as the 69 weeks that went before prove that 7 years is spoken of. But who knows, maybe Daniel is just a symbol. For that matter, Jesus Christ may just be a symbol. They are all symbols revealing the good in us and the Rapture and Second coming symbolizes our return to the good. I like this symbolizing method as I am free to make it whatever I like. Plus, I don't need to study the Scripture. I just read it and places the symbols that make sense to me. It's all about 'love'. (sarcasm)

Stranger
 

Jay Ross

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The second picture which in no way can be considered the same event is Rev. 19:11-16 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords." (no clouds depicted) This is a picture of His return for Armageddon and His victory to take back his earthly throne.

Yes, in a sense you are correct, but this visitation is a fleeting visitation to judge the nations on the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the heathen gentiles trampling the Earth (also told in Zeph 3:1-8) and afterwards, the gathering of all of Israel to God as told in Zeph 3:9-13. Paul also references this time in Rom. 11:25-26.

A little correction, Jesus did not come at Armageddon to take back his earthly Kingdom, that was given to Him when he returned after dealing with the judgement of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon at the end of their 2,300 years of trampling the sanctuary of God.

A little over one thousand years later Jesus comes back with an army from Heaven and captures the beast and the false prophet and dispatches them into the lake of fire at the end of the Millennium Age.

Shalom
 

Naomi25

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You ask of me, 'it doesn't matter at all what the scripture actually says about it?' It does matter and Scripture does not identify the Rapture as the Second Coming.

You then say concerning the one week in (Daniel), you take the numbers in Scripture symbolically. Which in this case makes no sense as the 69 weeks that went before prove that 7 years is spoken of. But who knows, maybe Daniel is just a symbol. For that matter, Jesus Christ may just be a symbol. They are all symbols revealing the good in us and the Rapture and Second coming symbolizes our return to the good. I like this symbolizing method as I am free to make it whatever I like. Plus, I don't need to study the Scripture. I just read it and places the symbols that make sense to me. It's all about 'love'. (sarcasm)

Stranger

Ah, there's that strawman. Stuff it nice and full now, it won't burn as bright as you want it to unless you do.

Ok. Sock it to me. Give me the scriptures that prove your Rapture verses are a different event than the second coming.
While we're at it, how about you give me the verses that show your nice, literal interpretation for inserting a gap. If you're going to accuse me of "spiritualizing" away Jesus himself, I'd like to see some darn good proof based on your literal hermeneutic for inserting something the text doesn't state. So let's have it.
 

Enoch111

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Ok. Sock it to me. Give me the scriptures that prove your Rapture verses are a different event than the second coming.
Actually one verse should suffice.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

Why will all the kindreds (inhabitants) of the earth weep, and wail, and mourn when they see Jesus descending with clouds of saints and angels?

Here's the answer:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
(Jude 1:14,15)

He is coming to EXECUTE JUDGMENT, and it will be a very terrifying time, as we well in this passage:
2 THESSALONIANS 1
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Now who can ever say in good conscience that this has anything to do with the Rapture?
 

Naomi25

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Could you explain that a little more please?
Sure. I appologise, this might be a little long: Here are some of the key parts of Matt 24-25:

Immediately after the tribulation..the sun will be darkened..the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven..the powers of the heavens will be shaken...all the tribes of the earth will mourn..they will see the Son of Man coming... gather his elect...
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows...Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. ...the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
...master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect...In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



When the Son of Man comes ... he will sit on his glorious throne... gathered all the nations, and he will separate... into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Alright, these important parts are the parts that link to other passages that talk about Christs return, and how they all, in point of fact, join together.
Despite the surface differences in some of the descriptions of the event itself, when we look at it, we see similar patterns emerging. The Lord will descend from heaven; it's usally described as being accompanied by angels, a trumpet blast or shout, and cosmic distrubances. We are also told we cannot know when this time will be. When he does this, he will gather his elect to himself, taking them, leaving the others. Then, he will sit on his throne and judge all the nations. Any and all opposition to him is pointless, as Rev 19 tells us.
Let's look at some of these other verses and see if they all link back to the Olivet Discourse:

But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. -1 Corinthians 15:23–26

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory
.” -1 Corinthians 15:51–54


This is telling us that when Christ comes at that trumpet blast, we will be given new bodies, but not just us! Those who are dead will be resurrected and given new bodies as well! Paul tells us that when this happens, death will be defeated. And when death is defeated, Christ has 'finished' his reign and will hand his Kingdom over to God the Father.
What other passages talk about the 'Rapture'?


For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. -
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17

It's the same account, really. The Lord shall descend with a cry and a trumpet blast. The dead go first, then those alive. We know from Corinthians that this is when we receive our new bodies. See how each account gives us just a bit more info?
Where else can we look? Right after 1 Thess 4 this comes, and logically must be about the same event:

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–3

Again, we see this in the Olivet Discourse...people will be living as in the days of Noah, eating and drinking, but 'sudden destruction' will come upon them like labor pains. This is clearly the same event that is talked about in Matt 24.

since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. -2 Thessalonians 1:6–10

Now we start seeing the judgement Jesus talks about in Matt 25, as well as in Rev 19.

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:1–8

Here we see a reference to our being gathered to Christ at his coming, and the Antichrist's demise at his return. We also see that Christ's return will not come until both the rebellion and the man of lawlessness is first revealed.
Finally:

But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. -2 Peter 3:7–13


It is clear here that the 'day of the Lord', the same day that will bring the earth and heavens being burned and melted, will be the same day that is seen coming upon us "like a thief", which is clearly described throughout scripture as Christ's return.

And then we get to Revelation 19. Revelation being a book primarily about Christ triumphing, then yes...we should expect nothing less than seeing him return on a magnificent white horse to judge his enemies in wonderful finality. We have, most clearly, what will happen, elswhere in scripture.
 

Trekson

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Yes, in a sense you are correct, but this visitation is a fleeting visitation to judge the nations on the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the heathen gentiles trampling the Earth (also told in Zeph 3:1-8) and afterwards, the gathering of all of Israel to God as told in Zeph 3:9-13. Paul also references this time in Rom. 11:25-26.

A little correction, Jesus did not come at Armageddon to take back his earthly Kingdom, that was given to Him when he returned after dealing with the judgement of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon at the end of their 2,300 years of trampling the sanctuary of God.

A little over one thousand years later Jesus comes back with an army from Heaven and captures the beast and the false prophet and dispatches them into the lake of fire at the end of the Millennium Age.

Shalom
Thanks for your input but I disagree with the SDA view on prophetic timing.
 

Naomi25

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Actually one verse should suffice.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

I'm sorry, but none of these verses divorce the Rapture with the Second Coming. The bible lists several things about Christ's coming, and they all appear in accordance with one another and the one event. Let's see...I've marked each passage below so similar subjects match. Red deals with Christ's return, his appearance, parousia. Light green deals with supernatural events, angelic shouts, trumpet blasts, heavens shaking, sky darkening, etc. Blue is the gathering of the elect. Purple is the "thief" idea. Dark green has to do with the finality of the event: final judgement, world ending cosmos renewal:

For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming (parousia) of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn (direct reference to Rev 1:7), and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather (episunagó) his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. -Matthew 24:27–31



“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming (parousia) of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. -Matthew 24:36–44

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.....
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” --Matthew 25:31–32, 36.


But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming (parousia) those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. -1 Corinthians 15:23–26

Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory
.” -1 Corinthians 15:51–54



For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. -
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17


Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–3

since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. -2 Thessalonians 1:6–10

Now concerning the coming(parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (episunagógé) together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed... And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. -2 Thessalonians 2:1,8


But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. -2 Peter 3:7–13


We must take into account that not every 'account' of Christ's return is exact. This is not, however, biblical reason to suggest they must be separate events. If this is the case, we must toss out the window the idea that the gospels tell the same story. In fact that their slight differences actually strengthen the case for their legitamacy.
 
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