Go, And Sin No More?

[BarneyFife]

By your words, you are taking the stance that the Blood Christ cannot remove sins, which is making it equivalent to the blood of "animal sacrifices".

Absolute straw man. "Taking the stance," no less. Give me a break.

Why do we all love so much to level charges of heresy at each other? I don't do that. And I don't understand the urge to. I pose questions and people ascribe motive and judge me. And I'm not the only one. Why would I want to accuse someone of a broad offense based on some isolated remark? And then belittle them by insisting they "don't understand" some basic tenet of the faith?

You should really study the Sanctuary services in the Old Testament (Just a suggestion). They illustrate the disposition of sin. They are ensamples (1 Corinthians 10:11). God didn't have the Hebrews slaughter millions of innocent animals merely for a grotesque display. It was and is an object lesson. It helps us to understand that which was not discernible by the 5 senses at Calvary. So much was going on in the supernatural realm. Calvary is the Grand Centerpiece of time, space, and consciousness. But it is not the end of atonement. That is not what "It is finished" means. The resurrection and ascension prove that much.

Please do not respond with a quiz. I f you have something to say, say it.

 

[Earburner]

Absolute straw man. "Taking the stance," no less. Give me a break.

Why do we all love so much to level charges of heresy at each other? I don't do that. And I don't understand the urge to. I pose questions and people ascribe motive and judge me. And I'm not the only one. Why would I want to accuse someone of a broad offense based on some isolated remark? And then belittle them by insisting they "don't understand" some basic tenet of the faith?

You should really study the Sanctuary services in the Old Testament (Just a suggestion). They illustrate the disposition of sin. They are ensamples (1 Corinthians 10:11). God didn't have the Hebrews slaughter millions of innocent animals merely for a grotesque display. It was and is an object lesson. It helps us to understand that which was not discernible by the 5 senses at Calvary. So much was going on in the supernatural realm. Calvary is the Grand Centerpiece of time, space, and consciousness. But it is not the end of atonement. That is not what "It is finished" means. The resurrection and ascension prove that much.

Please do not respond with a quiz. I f you have something to say, say it.

Oh but the Blood of Christ is the end of atonement. Rom. 5[11] And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Remember, Jesus, who is God the Son, is God the Father's Sacrifice for Himself and us.
"Behold, the Lamb of God, who taketh away [removes] the sin of the world".
"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission" [removal].

 

[quietthinker]

Oh but the Blood of Christ is the end of atonement. Rom. 5[11] And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Remember, Jesus, who is God the Son, is God the Father's Sacrifice for Himself and us.
"Behold, the Lamb of God, who taketh away [removes] the sin of the world".
"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission" [removal].

Even in the face of the obvious, everything is worth a second look.

The Hebrew Sanctuary system has much to teach us today regarding the plan of salvation. Dismissing it as a remnant of a past culture ensures critical information is missed and present information misinterpreted.

 

[BarneyFife]

Oh but the Blood of Christ is the end of atonement. Rom. 5[11] And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Remember, Jesus, who is God the Son, is God the Father's Sacrifice for Himself and us.
"Behold, the Lamb of God, who taketh away [removes] the sin of the world".
"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission" [removal].

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10)

Practically every English translation of Romans 5:11 renders the last word "reconciliation"--not "atonement." Even Young's Literal.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

For we are justified when we "turn from our wicked ways"

You know, you come SO CLOSE to getting it right sometimes and then you unleash a Bone Head remark like the above.......
Talk about Christianity 101! jUSTIFICATION by FAITH Is the very ESSENCE of the Entire Bible! NOT “ justification by Turning from our wicked ways.....”
Does the Bible say that Abraham was declared “ Righteous” when he gave up his wickedness? Of course not !
Newbies, please note .....The Bible says that God gave Abraham a Promise and that Abraham “ BELIEVED GOD, and God , From that day forward , considered Abraham as being “Righteous” or “ Justified .....
Turning from Wicked Ways is great but it won’t Save you....you will be more “moral” Perhaps , and that is all ..........you will get to join all of the other “ moral” people in Hell because Hell will be chock- full of those who tried to be “ moral” and “ good” in order to
Merit Heaven.....
Overcoming Wickedness is not even the Criteria for entering Heaven ....RESTING in Pauls Gospel is the basis of entering Paradise.....you could overcome Wickedness and be the sweetest little thing since Li’l LuLu and not “ Turn to God as a Lost Sinner who MUST have a Savior” and who puts their Trust in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 to be Saved.....
Get Saved by Trusting in the Gospel.....once Saved, the Holy Spirit within you will eradicate any wickedness in you by Transforming you from the Inside Out—- a Work
of God that will change you into the Image Of His Son—- something only HE can do.....
The Wicked man can Change—- he can turn over a “ New Leaf” , and that is commendable! Yes, a man can change the “ outside of the cup” —— but only GOD can TRANSFORM the “ inside of the Cup”...... only God , using the Holy Spirit can “ finish the Job that HE started” and “ Turn you into the Image Of His Son”
To get Saved we don’t Turn “ from” anything——- we Turn “ TO” God .Then we stand back, let the Holy Spirit hang around for awhile and Trust God To do what only He “ Can” do..... make us better people and ultimately, Saving Us to the Uttermost! Ya gotta Trust Him ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Sorry. Disagree. So does the Bible.

Only in your opinion..

 

[mailmandan]

I have seen certain people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach sinless perfection, yet Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."

 

[BarneyFife]

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SINLESS PERFECTION??!!!

 

[charity]

Replies #54-57,

Hello @BarnyFife,

It is obvious from your responses (above), that I have annoyed you by my entries. They were addressed to you as the one whose thread it was, and not always in response to anything you had said personally.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SINLESS PERFECTION??!!!

Hello @BarnyFife

In quoting 'go and sin no more', and using it as you have, the implication is that you believe it possible for the believer to indeed, sin no more. Yet, in John's letters we are told that if we say that we are without sin that we lie. We are to reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, however, that does not mean that we will not sin; but we are told that if we do sin, we may confess our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CadyandZoe]

How is legalism a problem? Practically no one believes they can earn their way to Heaven. Have you ever known someone who actually believes this?

My understanding of legalism is this. A person is being "legalistic" when he or she believes that those who keep the rules are better than those who don't. The Lord illustrates this principle with a short story example found in Luke chapter 18 "The Pharisee and the Tax Gatherer." Luke 18:9-14 In this example, not only did these men think of themselves as righteous, they also held other people in contempt. The tax gatherer went home justified because he was willing to humble himself. The legalist says to himself and to God, "I am not like other men", and with this attitude he does not go home justified.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So are the words "Go, and sin no more" filled with creative power or not?

No. Not really. You see, the woman caught in adultery was/is fully capable of avoiding adultery if she so chooses. She can stop committing adultery all on her own; she doesn't need divine aide. She doesn't even need to be born again. All she needs is the will and desire to stop.

If she doesn't want to stop she won't stop. If she wants to stop she will stop.

That having been said, some of us know from experience that it isn't as simple as all that. To illustrate my point, let's look at an example from scripture.

A young boy was demon possessed and his father asked the disciples to cast it out. The disciples were unable to cast it out when Jesus arrives on the scene.

Luke 9:21-24
And He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. It has often thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!” And Jesus said to him, “‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”

The woman caught in adultery might say something similar, "I do want to stop; help my unwillingness to stop." This is the focus of divine aide. In order for a person to "go and sin no more" that person might need help with regard to the will to do the right thing. It takes moral courage to stop sinning; we have conflicting desires, which the Holy Spirit can help us sort out. Sanctification is not only a renewal of the mind; it is a renewal of the will. God's creative power, as you say it, is focused on the will of an individual. The adulteress can stop committing adultery if she wills it; but she might need help with the willing.

 

[Earburner]

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10)


Practically every English translation of Romans 5:11 renders the last word "reconciliation"--not "atonement." Even Young's Literal.

I was quoting from the KJV Bible, translated from the Textus Receptus Greek Text.
Concerning Romans 5:10...."we shall be saved by his life".
I shall refer you to Leviticus 17[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it [blood] to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:
for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Jesus is God's Gift to the world, that through faith in His Blood, we may have salvation from eternal death.

Most all modern bible versions of today, including the NIV* and the JW New World Translation, are translated from the Westcott & Hort Greek Text.
Therefore, as there are many words available in a language translation, that do describe/explain a word from another language, not all the selections available will say or infer the truth of God's meaning in context.

As pertaining to the word "atonement", its origin was known of, and used in the Hebrew word for "atonement" in Moses' time.
KJV- Exodus 29:33 (Strongs 3722).
כּפר
kâphar
kaw-far'
A primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel
KJV Usage: appease, make (an) atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).

Given the fact that MANY of today's Bible versions are translated from two different Greek Texts, I fully understand why you and many others have problems with interpretation and discernment.


*aka, the Nearly Inspired Version bible.

 

[Earburner]

^ So then, in essence when your bible says that "we are saved by his life", it is in all actuality meaning that we are saved by His shed Blood, because "the life of the flesh is IN THE BLOOD". Leviticus 17:11

 

[07-07-07]

Jesus came to make us overcomers, not victims of Satan. Giving over to sin when tempted is giving over to Satan.

Luke 21
[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
[33] And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
[34] And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Technically speaking, "reconciliation" and "atonement" are the same thing.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sorry. Disagree. So does the Bible.

If we've only been forgiven for past sins, then we would have to ask forgiveness for every single sin, every moment of everyday; and we would be in fear of losing our salvation, that we might have missed a sin, or that if we died suddenly we wouldn't have the chance of that last request before death -- oops! The angel at the gates would say, "Ron, sorry, but remember last Wednesday? You lied to your boss. Really, what you call a white lie, a lie of omission, not telling the whole truth is still a lie.
And you had numerous others ... just in one week. Frankly Ron, since you've been saved 30 years ago, you have sinned thousands of times, and although you've been very diligent in your prayers, asking for forgiveness most of the time, you didn't quite catch all of them. You see there were times you weren't aware of sinning. There were times when God had expected to you to love your neighbor as yourself and you chose not to. Other times, a typical sin which most fail to get a handle on is loving your enemies. You just ignored them, turned the cheek and walked away. I'm sorry, we can't allow anyone in here with even one sin, it's a perfect place. But if it's any consolation to you, no one else was able to make it either!" ( a hypothetical scenario ... I didn't really die and come back).

Barney, you've once again seemed to get things wrong regardless of how many times Andy has tried to steer you in the right direction. Here's proof:

 

[07-07-07]

"Ron, sorry, but remember last Wednesday? You lied to your boss. Really, what you call a white lie, a lie of omission, not telling the whole truth is still a lie.

Why would you lie to your boss? We must study the Scriptures so we know what God would have us to do in difficult situations. Get rid of mens' theories and listen to God.

1 Samuel 16

[1] And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.
[2] And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.
[3] And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Why would you lie to your boss? We must study the Scriptures so we know what God would have us to do in difficult situations. Get rid of mens' theories and listen to God.

1 Samuel 16

[1] And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.
[2] And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.
[3] And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee.

What? Are you kidding me? I was creating a hypothetical situation. I' ve been retired for 5 years. Wow, lol.

 

[Earburner]

What? Are you kidding me? I was creating a hypothetical situation. I' ve been retired for 5 years. Wow, lol.

The unconverted speak to the converted often!
They don't understand Romans 8:8-9.