BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The term "mere ignorable ordinances" does not appear anywhere in this thread except from you.
I wouldn't dare denigrate the two great commandments. You bear false witness against me.
God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week
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I wouldn't dare denigrate the two great commandments. You bear false witness against me.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Services were not allowed on Sabbath. that came much later. The Pharisees made the laws to benefit themselves. The original law was to cease form you rjob to focus on the Lord n ot to stop everything. all the prohibitons are mutations sprung up later.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
From the Dallas Times/Herald:
Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?
Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham:
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."
Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?
Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham:
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Colossians 2:14 wipe out the weekly Sabbath?
Let's first take a look at the apostle Paul's words in Colossians 2:14-17: "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. ... So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
When some read about the sabbath days that were shadows and that passed away at the cross, they think that Paul was referring to the weekly Sabbath, the fourth of the Ten Commandments. Is this accurate? It's important to get this right, because our interpretation of the apostle's actual meaning can lead us into deeper truth or into deeper error.
Two Sabbaths
First, there is nothing in the Ten Commandment law about food, drink, festivals, new moons, or sabbath days (plural). All these were actually separate laws that God gave for the physical and spiritual health of His Old Testament people; these were called ceremonial laws.
Second, Paul wrote plainly that he was speaking of "sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come," and not of the weekly Sabbath, which is a memorial of something that happened in the past, at the creation. The contrast between a shadow and a memorial is quite clear. Indeed, the fourth commandment does not tell us to keep the seventh day as a type of something to come. It says: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8, 11).
Moreover, to show that he had something other than the weekly Sabbath in mind, Paul distinctly mentioned "sabbaths," plural," which are a shadow of things to come." (The word "sabbath" in the Greek can be singular or plural according to Strong's and Greek lexicons.)
Festivals and Shadows
The King James uses the word "holyday," and some will contend that it refers to the weekly Sabbath, while the expression "sabbath days" refers to yearly sabbaths. The American Standard Version uses "feast day" instead of "holyday," and this likely a clearer translation. The word translated "holyday" is from the Greek heorte, and in John 5:1, this same word is used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: "After this there was a feast [heorte] of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem." This is one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as having been nailed to the cross.
The "shadows" Paul mentions pointed to Jesus as a Savior from sin and were observed with that in mind. But the weekly Sabbath was made for man before sin entered into the world, before man would need atonement. The shadows pointing forward to His death as an atonement for sin certainly were not instituted until after sin. Therefore, since the weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, just as was the marriage institution, it was not a shadow of Christ's death as a Savior from sin; and His death did not end the Sabbath day any more than it brought marriage to an end. Both the Sabbath and marriage came to us in a perfect world.
Paul's language shows he was referencing the shadowy ceremonies that pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice again, carefully, his words in Colossians 2:14: "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." Paul mentions that these laws were "against us" and "contrary" to us. Would it be contrary to Christians to refrain from idolatry, using God's name in vain, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting - the sins rebuked by the Ten Commandments? Thus, the apostle must have been talking of another law - a law that enjoined food offerings, drink offerings, the observance of festivals, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.
Why Are These Laws Contrary to Us?
Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to the Christian faith? The yearly sabbath of the Passover involved killing a lamb that represented Jesus, the Lamb of God. The apostle Paul taught directly, "Indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us' (1 Corinthians 5:7). Thus, to keep offering a sacrificial lamb after His death would be to imply that Jesus had not accomplished atonement. Such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity.
Many other shadowy requirements of the ceremonial law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, as well. All these festivals, food and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declared to be "a shadow of things to come." Then he adds, 'But the substance is of Christ.' That is, the substance that cast these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.
Think of it this way - late in the afternoon when a tall tree casts its shadow eastward, one can begin at the farthest end of the shadow and follow it until he or she gets to the tree that casts the shadow, and there the shadow ceases to be. Likewise, we can go back to the time when "through one man [Adam] sin entered the world, and death through sin," and there a merciful God promised to send a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), a Substitute, to die in man's place. To keep man continually reminded of this fact, and to supply him with a means of expressing his faith in the coming sacrifice, God instituted these ceremonies. All of these were included in the law that was not written on tables of stone.
Follow these shadowy ceremonies all the way from Eden to the time of Moses, and then through the wilderness journey and on for hundreds of years after the settlement in Canaan, and at last to Calvary - and there they cease. So it would be 'against us' and 'contrary' to our faith to observe these ceremonies after Jesus' death. Not so with the other law. It is just as necessary to refrain from idolatry, using God's name in vain, dishonoring the Sabbath, murder, adultery, and theft after the cross as before. Indeed, it was the violation of these principles that caused the death of Christ. Could they have been set aside or changed to accommodate the carnal mind, Jesus need not have died.
Now with these truths before us, let us again read Colossians 2:14-17 and see how plainly Paul revealed that he did not mean that the weekly seventh-day Sabbath had been nailed to the cross: 'Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. ... So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.'
Let's first take a look at the apostle Paul's words in Colossians 2:14-17: "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. ... So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
When some read about the sabbath days that were shadows and that passed away at the cross, they think that Paul was referring to the weekly Sabbath, the fourth of the Ten Commandments. Is this accurate? It's important to get this right, because our interpretation of the apostle's actual meaning can lead us into deeper truth or into deeper error.
Two Sabbaths
First, there is nothing in the Ten Commandment law about food, drink, festivals, new moons, or sabbath days (plural). All these were actually separate laws that God gave for the physical and spiritual health of His Old Testament people; these were called ceremonial laws.
Second, Paul wrote plainly that he was speaking of "sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come," and not of the weekly Sabbath, which is a memorial of something that happened in the past, at the creation. The contrast between a shadow and a memorial is quite clear. Indeed, the fourth commandment does not tell us to keep the seventh day as a type of something to come. It says: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8, 11).
Moreover, to show that he had something other than the weekly Sabbath in mind, Paul distinctly mentioned "sabbaths," plural," which are a shadow of things to come." (The word "sabbath" in the Greek can be singular or plural according to Strong's and Greek lexicons.)
Festivals and Shadows
The King James uses the word "holyday," and some will contend that it refers to the weekly Sabbath, while the expression "sabbath days" refers to yearly sabbaths. The American Standard Version uses "feast day" instead of "holyday," and this likely a clearer translation. The word translated "holyday" is from the Greek heorte, and in John 5:1, this same word is used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: "After this there was a feast [heorte] of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem." This is one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as having been nailed to the cross.
The "shadows" Paul mentions pointed to Jesus as a Savior from sin and were observed with that in mind. But the weekly Sabbath was made for man before sin entered into the world, before man would need atonement. The shadows pointing forward to His death as an atonement for sin certainly were not instituted until after sin. Therefore, since the weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, just as was the marriage institution, it was not a shadow of Christ's death as a Savior from sin; and His death did not end the Sabbath day any more than it brought marriage to an end. Both the Sabbath and marriage came to us in a perfect world.
Paul's language shows he was referencing the shadowy ceremonies that pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice again, carefully, his words in Colossians 2:14: "Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." Paul mentions that these laws were "against us" and "contrary" to us. Would it be contrary to Christians to refrain from idolatry, using God's name in vain, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting - the sins rebuked by the Ten Commandments? Thus, the apostle must have been talking of another law - a law that enjoined food offerings, drink offerings, the observance of festivals, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.
Why Are These Laws Contrary to Us?
Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to the Christian faith? The yearly sabbath of the Passover involved killing a lamb that represented Jesus, the Lamb of God. The apostle Paul taught directly, "Indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us' (1 Corinthians 5:7). Thus, to keep offering a sacrificial lamb after His death would be to imply that Jesus had not accomplished atonement. Such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity.
Many other shadowy requirements of the ceremonial law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, as well. All these festivals, food and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declared to be "a shadow of things to come." Then he adds, 'But the substance is of Christ.' That is, the substance that cast these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.
Think of it this way - late in the afternoon when a tall tree casts its shadow eastward, one can begin at the farthest end of the shadow and follow it until he or she gets to the tree that casts the shadow, and there the shadow ceases to be. Likewise, we can go back to the time when "through one man [Adam] sin entered the world, and death through sin," and there a merciful God promised to send a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), a Substitute, to die in man's place. To keep man continually reminded of this fact, and to supply him with a means of expressing his faith in the coming sacrifice, God instituted these ceremonies. All of these were included in the law that was not written on tables of stone.
Follow these shadowy ceremonies all the way from Eden to the time of Moses, and then through the wilderness journey and on for hundreds of years after the settlement in Canaan, and at last to Calvary - and there they cease. So it would be 'against us' and 'contrary' to our faith to observe these ceremonies after Jesus' death. Not so with the other law. It is just as necessary to refrain from idolatry, using God's name in vain, dishonoring the Sabbath, murder, adultery, and theft after the cross as before. Indeed, it was the violation of these principles that caused the death of Christ. Could they have been set aside or changed to accommodate the carnal mind, Jesus need not have died.
Now with these truths before us, let us again read Colossians 2:14-17 and see how plainly Paul revealed that he did not mean that the weekly seventh-day Sabbath had been nailed to the cross: 'Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. ... So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.'
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Hi, guys - @ReChoired and @BarnyFife
I would also love to see your scripture reference for Noah keeping the Sabbath. I don't recall that. Are you sure you are not thinking about clean animals that Noah was commanded to bring on 7 of each, but on 2 of every other animal?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
There's no positive command that I'm aware of. But it is intimated in Gen 7&8:
Noah kept God's calendar and Sabbath.
Another little-known fact about Noah is that he kept God's Sabbath and the biblical calendar. Remember, the Bible says he "walked" according to God's laws and ways.
We read in Genesis 2:3 that God established the Sabbath for Adam and Eve right after He created them, setting up the weekly cycle of seven days, with the seventh being the day of rest. There were also months and years to keep track of according to the moon and sun.
As we're told in Genesis 1:14: "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, for days and years'" (English Standard Version). The word translated "seasons" here means "appointed times"—used in Leviticus 23 for God's festivals. Thus some Bible versions translate it this way in Genesis 1:14;for example, "sacred times" in the New International Version and "religious festivals" in God's Word Translation.
We see in the book of Genesis (and throughout the rest of the Bible) that the faithful people of God followed the seven-day week, which had been revealed since the time of Adam and Eve.
Notice what is said about Noah in Genesis 8:10-13: "And he waited yet another seven days, and again he sent the dove out from the ark. Then the dove came to him in the evening, and behold, a freshly plucked olive leaf was in her mouth; and Noah knew that the waters had receded from the earth. So he waited yet another seven days and sent out the dove, which did not return again to him anymore.
"And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, that the waters were dried up from the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and indeed the surface of the ground was dry."
The Keil and Delitzch Commentary on the Old Testament notes on the Genesis 8 passage, "The seven days constituted the week established at the creation, and God had already conformed to it in arranging their entrance into the ark (Genesis 7:4, Genesis 7:10)."
This passage also clearly shows that Noah understood years, months, weeks and days, and carefully kept track of time while he and his family were shut up in the ark.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
my dear, the Sabbath is as plain as the nose on your face....why try and cut it off?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
CL knows about the Sabbath. She's asking specifically about the Noah reference.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
@quietthinker
By the way, thanks for the LightBearer's Convocation link.
Any idea what happened to James Rafferty?
By the way, thanks for the LightBearer's Convocation link.
Any idea what happened to James Rafferty?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
sorry, no re Rafferty, BF.@quietthinker
By the way, thanks for the LightBearer's Convocation link.
Any idea what happened to James Rafferty?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Hey QT
They claimed there was scripture specifically saying that Noah kept the Sabbath. I don't recall reading that, and would love to see the scriptures they are using. You obviously know what they are talking about so I'll let you look it up and provide it. How about it. Up for the challenge?
I thought they were recalling the other Adventist belief about clean meats. They were to bring on board the ark 7 of each clean species. And then possibly incorrectly remembered the belief as that of the Sabbath. Honest mistake. But if its not, I still need proof. Can you help out?
The old covenant was for a carnal nation, and was all about the physical as a foreshadow of the spiritual: example - circumcision in the old covenant was physical, but in the new covenant it’s spiritual, being the circumcision of the heart.
Similarly, in the old covenant their rest (sabbath merely means rest) was a physical rest on the 7th day of the week, but in the new covenant, our rest is spiritual, and is found in Jesus, who gives us REST 24/7, per Matthew 11:28-29.
This is why scripture says to not judge anyone in regard to the sabbaths - especially the weekly sabbath - because the days were merely a SHADOW - as in physical foreshadow - of Jesus, who is the substance (that casts the shadow).
Jesus is our rest now, instead of a ceremonial day of rest.
This explains why the two love commands - which are vastly superior to the Ten commands and have superseded (replaced) them - have no day whatsoever that’s commanded to be kept.
When Jesus said to keep His commands, it’s the two love commands that fulfill ALL THE LAW, and not the Decalogue.
Shalom Aleichem
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
CL, the fourth Commandment to 'remember' implies this commandment had been forgotten by many in humanity. Not all however; there were Godly men between Adam and Noah, Enoch being one. Noah is described as a man with integrity or 'walking perfect in his generations' Genesis 6:9
I would glean from the above description that Noah knew about not committing adultery, or stealing or murdering etc. even though these commandments aren't mentioned specifically that I'm aware of. By the same principle, it is safe to assume the Sabbath given to Adam (God himself being an example) was passed on to his progeny and kept by all who were God fearing.....Jesus reiterating that the Sabbath was made for man (a reference to Eden)
I would glean from the above description that Noah knew about not committing adultery, or stealing or murdering etc. even though these commandments aren't mentioned specifically that I'm aware of. By the same principle, it is safe to assume the Sabbath given to Adam (God himself being an example) was passed on to his progeny and kept by all who were God fearing.....Jesus reiterating that the Sabbath was made for man (a reference to Eden)
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God rested one time after 6 days of creation but never COMMANDED anyone to keep the sabbath, until He gave it to Israel as a memorial of remembrance, of being set free from Egyptian slavery after their Exodus - and as a covenant sign only between the nation of Israel, and Himself:
Deu 5:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and Jehovah thy God brought thee out thence by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm: therefore Jehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
REMEMBER that YOU (Israel) were slaves in Egypt and I took you out with a mighty hand and outstretched arm, THEREFORE (because of your deliverance from Egyptian slavery) I gave YOU (Israel) this sabbath day command.
That wouldn’t be much of a memorial of REMEMBRANCE and a covenant SIGN - as God calls the sabbath day command in Exodus 31:13 - to give them a command that was ALREADY kept since the 6th day of creation, now would it?
Obviously not.
In fact Moses refutes the claim that any of their ancestors already had the sabbath day command, when he was about to give Israel the covenant law God gave to them, which includes the Decalogue:
Note the chapter heading in the Bible for this passage:
The Ten Commandments.
Deu 5:1 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may LEARN them, and observe to DO them.
Deu 5:2 Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 Jehovah made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US - even us, who are all of us here alive THIS day.
No one had the covenant law and ten commands until Moses received them after the Exodus from Egypt, as proven by Moses telling them THEY HAD TO LEARN THEM and then DO them, and said neither THEY nor their FATHERS had that law and commands until then.
In fact Paul made it known that the law was not given until 430 years AFTER Abraham lived, which is when Moses received it - and therefore was not given in Eden:
Gal 3:16 Now, God made his promises to Abraham and to his descendant. The scripture does not use the plural "descendants," meaning many people, but the singular "descendant," meaning one person only, namely, Christ.
Gal 3:17 What I mean is that God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law, which was given four hundred and thirty years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God's promise.
Gal 3:18 For if God's gift depends on the Law, then it no longer depends on his promise. However, it was because of his promise that God gave that gift to Abraham.
Gal 3:19 What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added in order to show what wrongdoing is, and it was meant to last until the coming of Abraham's descendant, to whom the promise was made. (Jesus) The Law was handed down by angels, with a man acting as a go-between.
Gal 3:20 But a go-between is not needed when only one person is involved; and God is one.
Gal 3:21 Does this mean that the Law is against God's promises? No, not at all! For if human beings had received a law that could bring life, then everyone could be put right with God by obeying it.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture says that the whole world is under the power of sin; and so the gift which is promised on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ is given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 But before the time for faith came, the Law kept us all locked up as prisoners until this coming faith should be revealed.
Gal 3:24 And so the Law was in charge of us until Christ came, in order that we might then be put right with God through faith.
Gal 3:25 Now that the time for faith is here, the Law is no longer in charge of us.
Gal 3:26 It is through faith that all of you are God's children in union with Christ Jesus.
Now, here’s the fact that the sabbath day command was a covenant sign only between between God and the nation of Israel:
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily YE shall keep my sabbaths: for it is A SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye may know that I am Jehovah who sanctifieth YOU.
Baruch HaShem HaMasciach Yehoshua
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God shared his day of rest with Adam. I find it interesting that Adam, straight from the Creators hand on the sixth day accompanied Jesus in fellowship and rest on the following day before any 'work' was engaged.
God's first priority was to desire that Adam became acquainted with his maker and friend. Adam, made in God's image and with high intellect would have spent the day checking himself out including his surroundings in the company of Jesus who would have told him of the unfolding of the days of Creation....and Adam no doubt would have told his children of that first day of his existence (the 7th of the Creation week) which, as we all know repeats itself effectually becoming the memorial of Creation.
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