God Commands Righteous Violence

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2025
1,229
859
113
77
Paignton
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It's never about what men say about God's word; it's about what God says about his word.
I agree. But saying that certain words and phrases in English have different meanings now to those they had in 1611 is not about what God says in His word, but about how that word is translated into English. Surely you are not saying that God can only express His word in 17th century English.
For I am the Lord, I change not; (Mal. 3)
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Heb. 13)
Yes, that is about Jesus Christ being changeless, not the English language.
Further, when mere men change things, there is always a motive...
It is if they are changing the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek words. If you insist on using phrases like "fetched a compass" when the Greek and Hebrew mean "turned around", then that is changing the meaning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RLT63

doctrox

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2018
1,213
915
113
worldwide
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
.
But saying that certain words and phrases in English have different meanings now to those they had in 1611 is not about what God says in His word, but about how that word is translated into English. Surely you are not saying that God can only express His word in 17th century English.
Rather than trusting man for his shifting definitions, trust God that he will answer you if only you would ask him. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5)

Yes, that is about Jesus Christ being changeless, not the English language.
It's about Jesus Christ being the Word:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Rev. 19:13)

It is if they are changing the meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek words.
What "original"? God doesn't care about any so-called original.

Who gives understanding? Men, or God? To which do you turn, in your moment of need?
.
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2025
1,229
859
113
77
Paignton
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
.

Rather than trusting man for his shifting definitions, trust God that he will answer you if only you would ask him. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5)
You seem to have missed the point I was making. When God gave His word, the Old Testament was in Hebrew, and the New Testament in Greek. So for the Bible to be available in any other language, like English, Mongolian, German or Icelandic, it must be translated. What is important is how accurately the translators render the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew. Why should that be possible in 1611, but not (as you seem to be saying) in the English we use in the 21st century?
It's about Jesus Christ being the Word:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Rev. 19:13)


What "original"? God doesn't care about any so-called original.

Who gives understanding? Men, or God? To which do you turn, in your moment of need?
.
Yes of course it is God Who gives understanding. God could if He desired give understanding of His word without any translations. But He doesn't. He enables men to translate His word. Why did that have to stop (as far as English is concerned) in 1611? As for God not caring about the original, why would He not care about His word as originally given in Hebrew and Greek?
 
  • Like
Reactions: RLT63

doctrox

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2018
1,213
915
113
worldwide
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
You seem to have missed the point I was making. When God gave His word, the Old Testament was in Hebrew, and the New Testament in Greek. So for the Bible to be available in any other language, like English, Mongolian, German or Icelandic, it must be translated.
God could not care less about any translations per se. The Holy Bible itself chronicles for us several "translations" (scrolls tossed into a fire, into a river, etc.).

What is important is how accurately the translators render the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew. Why should that be possible in 1611, but not (as you seem to be saying) in the English we use in the 21st century?
That is not "what is important." The Truth has never been about any "translation"; it’s about whether or not you believe that God has kept his promise to preserve his inspired words for ever. Do you trust God, or do you trust men?

Yes of course it is God Who gives understanding. God could if He desired give understanding of His word without any translations. But He doesn't.
But he does. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5) - which part of that do you not understand?

He enables men to translate His word. Why did that have to stop (as far as English is concerned) in 1611?
Men have never ceased trying to reinterpret God's word for their own purposes; this site and others are full of such humanistic enterprises.

As for God not caring about the original, why would He not care about His word as originally given in Hebrew and Greek?
The promise of pure and perfect preservation extends to every word, not to the paper upon which they were written. "Original" is a relative construct of men, not of God. The goal of such men is to shift their burden from God's "inspired," "pure" and "preserved" words to man's mere intellect; then they could proceed to build their ivory towers. Rather, God's pattern has always been the same: He gives the COMMON man the COMMON bible in the COMMON language of the day, to do one thing - evangelize the world.

It gets downright silly when, for example, you're unable to tell us which “original Greek." Is it Aleph1, Aleph2, Aleph3, B1, B2, B3, C, L, W, Textus Receptus, Westcott and Hort, Scrivener’s, Alfred, Griesbach, Elzevir, Erasmus, Tischendorf, Lachman, Souter, von Soden, Hodge-Farstad, Nestle’s-Aland (If so which edition between 1 and 26? which printing of the 26th?), USB-Aland, Black, Metzger, Wikgren (Which edition between 1 and 47?), or the Greek-English Diglot for the Use of Translators?
 
Last edited:

Nathaniel

Active Member
Sep 6, 2026
144
149
43
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It would seem that the "kill your neighbor" thread is still alive and well.

It would also seem that those promoting such blasphemies have not yet purged the world of evil, or even began the process.

What's the hold up guys? Plenty of evil still out there. Better get busy.

Or maybe this thread was never serious to begin with, just another demonically inspired topic to keep the sheep arguing with one another.
 
  • Loveit!
Reactions: doctrox

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,529
25,927
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Muscular Christianity.


“Muscular Christianity” looks like Jesus and the apostles. As we all know, they didn’t kill their enemies, nor did they teach the followers of Jesus to kill their enemies.

“Muscular Christianity” looks like Vlad the Impaler to you.