God doesn't want our worship....

[Mr.Bride]

Our ways are not His ways; our thoughts His thoughts... Cain sincerely brought his offering unto the Lord and it was rejected. Oh, what finite minds we have. "I know what I'll give to God" you say. Wrong. He knows what He wants.

Abel had a revelation from God on what kind of offering He wanted. He knew God wanted blood. How did he know? He was born of God. God told Cain "Just do what your brother did and I'll accept you". He couldn't. He could only get mad. Like his father.

To be in and from God means to know what worship He desires. Having the mind of Christ assure the right sacrifice. I think this is beautiful.

God said they worship but know not who they worship... Revelation is vital.

Blessings

 

[HymnSeeker]

I understand the point you are making and it's true, but I disagree with the wording.

God does want our worship. If He didn't, I wouldn't be blessed as I am.



John 4:23-24

But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”



I think that is what you are saying. God seeks pure followers who are in His spirit, not false witnesses and half hearted attempts at being saved. He made us for His enjoyment, and wants us to exhalt Him properly and be good and happy servants to Him.

Have I misunderstood?

 

[Forsakenone]

I guess that is one way to look at it. But for the sake of discussion the might be another way to look the text of Cain and Able.

But of course Abel's flock was fat, Abel was disrespecting Cain's property's right by running his flock upon his Cain's fields where they consumed the fruit of Cain's labor. And of course the LORD had respect for what the treatment of the flock which appeared to be well taken care of, yet what does the LORD need with food for the flesh seeing that the Holy Ghost is a Spirit? What do you feed the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the World?

But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. Genesis 4:5

How would you feel in Cain's position, you worked hard and another profited from stealing it?

And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? Genesis 4:5

If you ever had anything that you worked hard for that was stolen or destroyed by someone else, did you get upset? Did it bring you down?

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Genesis 4:7

Well of course the LORD might have told Cain:
Ezek 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezek 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezek 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Therefore in Genesis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother:

[Could it have been about Abel grazing his flock Cain's field?]

And as the Genesis 4:8 continues, and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

What was Abel doing in Cain's field? Where do you think Abel's flock was when Cain rose up against his brother? So do you have the right to protect your property from people stealing it?

So did the LORD really not know where Abel was? It is written in Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

Or did the LORD walk past the crying spirit before he approached Cain? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. Genesis 4:10

And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; Genesis 4:11

So Abel spirit descended into the earth and what happened to Cain, the LORD cursed him from his presence back to Nod, on the east of Eden which the LORD God had drove the man off of Eden to dwell upon the earth [1] whereby Cain was given a wife, and unto him was a child born and he built a City and named it after his son. [2]

[1] Gen 3:23-24
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

[2] Gen 4:16-17
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Luke 9:27

 

[Mr.Bride]

I understand the point you are making and it's true, but I disagree with the wording.

God does want our worship. If He didn't, I wouldn't be blessed as I am.



John 4:23-24

But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”


I think that is what you are saying. God seeks pure followers who are in His spirit, not false witnesses and half hearted attempts at being saved. He made us for His enjoyment, and wants us to exhalt Him properly and be good and happy servants to Him.

Have I misunderstood?

Greetings my friend,

I understand. You about got me. Words can seem kinda weird sometimes. *We read in between the lines* This takes revelation from God.

Ok so when we speak we are speaking our words right? They are ours in a sense. God said my words will become their words... See what I'm saying. So they are not truly ours.

Folks worship God how they wanna worship without knowing what God wants. Abel knew God wanted blood. Come on now, how did he know that? And why didn't Cain? Two different fathers...

Blessings

 

[HymnSeeker]

Greetings my friend,

I understand. You about got me. Words can seem kinda weird sometimes. *We read in between the lines* This takes revelation from God.

Ok so when we speak we are speaking our words right? They are ours in a sense. God said my words will become their words... See what I'm saying. So they are not truly ours.

Folks worship God how they wanna worship without knowing what God wants. Abel knew God wanted blood. Come on now, how did he know that? And why didn't Cain? Two different fathers...

Blessings

I love your icon by the way. I was going to choose that for my own but when I saw you had it, I settled on this one, which I think suits me better anyway.

 

[RANDOR]

Mr.Bride.............I knew what you meant even if it didn't come out quite like you thought

I know how much you love Jesus...................

There are many times...if not all...........I get so excited about what I want to say about God my fingers have a mind of their own

 

[JPPT1974]

It is WHO we worship. And that WHO is God. As God should be front and center of our hearts, minds, souls, and yes, worship!

 

[clark thompson]

God wants our worship but wants it to be done out of love and not just out of commitment.

 

[brakelite]

I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.There are secular people in the world who wouldn’t dream of breaking God’s commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal form anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.
There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who ‘religiously’ attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.
Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one’s very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one’s will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. Then, and only then, everything we do,
even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.
The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the submission and surrender that is required …. when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23.

So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalfof mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[ironmonk]

Our ways are not His ways; our thoughts His thoughts... Cain sincerely brought his offering unto the Lord and it was rejected. Oh, what finite minds we have. "I know what I'll give to God" you say. Wrong. He knows what He wants.

Abel had a revelation from God on what kind of offering He wanted. He knew God wanted blood. How did he know? He was born of God. God told Cain "Just do what your brother did and I'll accept you". He couldn't. He could only get mad. Like his father.

To be in and from God means to know what worship He desires. Having the mind of Christ assure the right sacrifice. I think this is beautiful.

God said they worship but know not who they worship... Revelation is vital.

Blessings

It has been said faith is all children know

They have faith in their parents

They have faith in their brothers and sisters

And of course they have faith in their friends

This is what our lord intended to do

So the little children would be saved

But as they grow older they are doomed to choose

From the fruit of the tree of knowledge

And then their faith is slowly consumed

Buy the snake who holds them tighter and tighter

And he wont ever let go

Untill they realize what they always had.

 

[JonD]

Its noted that Abel offered the best of what he had, the firstlings of his flock, the best. And this is well noted in the verses. But Cain only offered the fruit of the ground. Nowhere is it noted as being the best in Cains instance. The firstlings are thought and recognised as the best. Cains was just the fruit of the ground whereas Abel took care of what he was offering God, the firstlings, his best. If Cain had offered the best it would have been noted but it was not. Cain may possibly have just plucked up anything and not taken the care to select the best with some being even perhaps blemished, unlike Abel who chose to offer the best. Therefore Cains was rejected and Abel's was accepted. Had Cain taken sincere care to choose the best he had to offer and offer it willingly it would have been accepted, but it was not the case.

 

[shturt678]

brakelite

I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.There are secular people in the world who wouldn’t dream of breaking God’s commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal form anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.
There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who ‘religiously’ attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.
Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one’s very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one’s will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. Then, and only then, everything we do,
even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.
The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the submission and surrender that is required …. when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:23.

So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalfof mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Thank you for your post, ie, with your permission will use it as a base for today's Church services, along with a "Memorial" message - multiple small services.

I will be adding the down side of today's worship with Rev.13:14b, ie, world wide pretentious worship unknowingly in light of IIThess.2:4.

Old Jack doing introspection

 

[williemac]

The difference between Cain and Abels' offerings were that in Cain's case, he offered God that which was a work of his own hand. We must understand how this is consistent with the original transgression of Lucifer. He forsook His God given role and determined to exalt himslef to the status of God. That transgression holds the key to understanding the issues between God and His creation.

All throughout the bible we see two themes repeated over and over by God: " I am God and there is no other" ...And "Trust Me" .

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. Herin lies the difference between the two offerings. God will provide the sacrifice. When we attempt to provide it, we worship self over God. True worship exalts the works of God. He is not demanding of us that which is of ourselves. Be watchful and mindful, for the church is often being tempted with this false worship of self sacrifice. Accepting the works of God is the truest form of worship. Think of it. When we sing songs of praise, do we sing of His goodness, or ours? There is only One savior.
Rom. 12:1 is not about worship. It is about service. The sacrifice mentioned is a reflection of the opposite of Lucifer's transgression, in that it demoinstrates the willingness to accept our God given role and purpose. It has nothing to do with the sacrifice for sin. It is simply the humble offering of ourselves for His purpose, thus called a living sacrifice.. It is not the same kind of sacrifice mentioned in Genesis. The successful fulfilling of Rom.12:1 is dependant upon that which God provides. We do not serve Him from our own resources. One must first become a new creation, and put on the new man, created according to God in true righteousness and holiness (Ephesians 4:24).
The issue can also be seen in Luke 18:10-14. We must be careful not to put our confidence in the wrong sacrifice.

 

[shturt678]

The difference between Cain and Abels' offerings were that in Cain's case, he offered God that which was a work of his own hand. We must understand how this is consistent with the original transgression of Lucifer. He forsook His God given role and determined to exalt himslef to the status of God. That transgression holds the key to understanding the issues between God and His creation.

All throughout the bible we see two themes repeated over and over by God: " I am God and there is no other" ...And "Trust Me" .

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. Herin lies the difference between the two offerings. God will provide the sacrifice. When we attempt to provide it, we worship self over God. True worship exalts the works of God. He is not demanding of us that which is of ourselves. Be watchful and mindful, for the church is often being tempted with this false worship of self sacrifice. Accepting the works of God is the truest form of worship. Think of it. When we sing songs of praise, do we sing of His goodness, or ours? There is only One savior.
Rom. 12:1 is not about worship. It is about service. The sacrifice mentioned is a reflection of the opposite of Lucifer's transgression, in that it demoinstrates the willingness to accept our God given role and purpose. It has nothing to do with the sacrifice for sin. It is simply the humble offering of ourselves for His purpose, thus called a living sacrifice.. It is not the same kind of sacrifice mentioned in Genesis. The successful fulfilling of Rom.12:1 is dependant upon that which God provides. We do not serve Him from our own resources. One must first become a new creation, and put on the new man, created according to God in true righteousness and holiness (Ephesians 4:24).
The issue can also be seen in Luke 18:10-14. We must be careful not to put our confidence in the wrong sacrifice.

Thank you for caring!

Overall, well presented!

Old Jack