God Interprets His Scripture

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, I know exactly what Scripture says about the two witnesses “spewing fire,” and so should you if you're going to quote it. Revelation 11:5 says, “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies, and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.” That’s not symbolic, and it’s not a metaphor, it’s exactly what the text says. God doesn't need your imagination to soften it. Just like Elijah called down literal fire from heaven (2 Kings 1:10–12), these two prophets are given divine power to issue fire from their mouths as judgment. You mock it with the word “spew” like it's absurd, but you’re mocking the Word of God. The passage says what it says, fire comes out of their mouths, and people die. If that bothers you, the problem isn’t the text, it’s your unwillingness to accept what’s written.

The issue here is not the presence of symbols in Scripture, but how you're handling them. You're interpreting symbols through speculation instead of letting the Word of God define them. Revelation 11 calls these two witnesses prophets, not once, but directly in verse 10, and yet you bypass that clear designation to redefine them as symbolic representations of the Church. But nowhere in Revelation 11 does the Bible say the witnesses are a congregation or collective body. The passage outlines a sequence of events, prophesying, being killed, lying dead for three and a half days, being raised to life, and ascending to heaven in the sight of their enemies. There is no biblical precedent for applying that series of events to the Church. As for your reference to the anointing of believers, yes, all Christians have the Holy Spirit, but the Bible never equates being anointed with holding the prophetic office described in Revelation 11. Being filled with the Spirit does not mean every believer becomes one of the two witnesses. Your conclusion relies on a chain of symbolic connections the Bible itself never makes. If you believe the Church is the two witnesses, then show that directly from the text, not through layered assumptions and broad metaphors, but by rightly dividing the Word as it is written.

So, just to be clear, you believe the two witnesses are two individuals who will literally have physical fire coming out of their mouths that will literally, physically kill their enemies? Is that correct? Kind of like this...



Why is it that they would be allowed to ignore Jesus's command to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek and instead be told to kill their enemies? Your insistence that it's all supposed to be taken literally is causing you to contradict other scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have one disagreement on your interpretation:

Zechariah 3:8-9 tells us that in Zechariah 4 the two olive trees represent Joshua the High Priest and Zerubabbel the magistrate / king of Israel, and BOTH are types of Christ, who gives power to His two witnesses in Revelation 11:3:

Zechariah 3
8 Listen now, Joshua the high priest, both you and your colleagues who are sitting before you, all of you are a symbol that I am about to introduce my servant, the Branch.
9 As for the stone I have set before Joshua - on the one stone there are seven eyes. I am about to engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD who rules over all, 'to the effect that I will remove the iniquity of this land in a single day.

Zechariah 4
7 "What are you, you great mountain? Because of Zerubbabel you will become a level plain! And he will bring forth the temple capstone with shoutings of 'Grace! Grace!' because of this."

Zechariah Chapter 4 is all about the building of God's Temple.

The Hebrew of Zechariah 4:14 reads, "These are the sons of oil that stand before the Lord of the whole earth" (the Hebrew word for 'anointed' in verse 14 is the word that is always referring to oil in all other Old Testament passages and verses which use the same word).

Zechariah asks a question about the olive trees TWICE in the passage:

Zechariah 4
3 There are also two olive trees beside it, one on the right of the receptacle and the other on the left."
4 Then I asked the messenger who spoke with me, "What are these, sir?"
5 He replied, "Don't you know what these are?" So I responded, "No, sir."
6 Therefore he told me, "These signify the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by strength and not by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD who rules over all."
7 "What are you, you great mountain? Because of Zerubbabel you will become a level plain! And he will bring forth the temple capstone with shoutings of 'Grace! Grace!' because of this."
8 Moreover, the word of the LORD came to me as follows:
9 "The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundations of this temple, and his hands will complete it." Then you will know that the LORD who rules over all has sent me to you.

Zerubabbel is a type of Christ laying the foundations of His Temple and His hands also finishing it. So is Joshua, the high priest:

11 Next I asked the messenger, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the menorah?"
12 Before he could reply I asked again, "What are these two extensions of the olive trees, which are emptying out the golden oil through the two golden pipes?"
13 He replied, "Don't you know what these are?" And I said, "No, sir."
14 So he said, "These are the two sons of oil who stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

Zechariah Chapter 4 links the two olive trees, which provide the oil, to Joshua and Zerubbabel (and hence, to Christ). He is THE CAPSTONE of the Temple in Zechariah 3:9. He provides the Holy Spirit and power to:

(i) THE SEVEN LAMPS of the lamp-stand (Zechariah 4:2-3 & 12-14); which are:

(ii) "THE SEVEN EYES OF THE LORD, WHICH RUN TO AND FRO THROUGH THE WHOLE EARTH" (Zechariah 3:9 & Zechariah 4:10); and this is alluded to in Revelation 5:6:

(iii) THE SEVEN EYES OF THE LAMB; which are linked in the same verse to:

(iv) "THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD SENT FORTH INTO ALL THE EARTH (Revelation 5:6), which are linked to:

(v) The "SEVEN LAMPS of fire BURNING BEFORE THE THRONE, WHICH ARE THE SEVEN SPIRITS OF GOD" (Revelation 4:5).

He also provides the power to His two witnesses (Revelation 11:3).

Therefore because what is written in Zechariah Chapter 4 is also referring to God's temple whose foundation-stone is THE BRANCH, the seven churches mentioned in Revelation 1:12-13 are ALSO being symbolized as candlesticks / lamp-stands / menorahs (whatever we want to call them).

Copy @Spiritual Israelite

I have no problem with your interpretation. It's viable. I personally see a connection between the two olive trees and Romans 11:15-24, so I see the two candlesticks and two olive trees as representing the Jew and Gentile congregation of believers witnessing together as one (one new man, one body, one cultivated olive tree, one temple of God), but it seems most only look at Zechariah 4 for a connection to the two olive trees. Maybe we should be looking at both. Anyway, any interpretation that sees the two witnesses as representing the church and the church preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit is fine with me because that is what I believe the two witnesses represent.

 

[Zao is life]

I have no problem with your interpretation. It's viable. I personally see a connection between the two olive trees and Romans 11:15-24, so I see the two candlesticks and two olive trees as representing the Jew and Gentile congregation of believers witnessing together as one (one new man, one body, one cultivated olive tree, one temple of God), but it seems most only look at Zechariah 4 for a connection to the two olive trees. Maybe we should be looking at both. Anyway, any interpretation that sees the two witnesses as representing the church and the church preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit is fine with me because that is what I believe the two witnesses represent.

I know I disagreed with the connection you find between the olive tree of Romans 11 and the two olive trees of Revelation 11, but it's nevertheless obvious IMO that Zechariah 4 is where Paul gets the symbol of the olive tree from that he used in Romans 11. At least it's now obvious to me (it wasn't before).

And the lamp-stands of Revelation 11:4 are definitely made up of all believers - Jew and Gentile.

Having in mind the remnant of the faithful saints at the time of Christ's return, I don't know whether or not it's significant that of the seven churches only two received only commendation from Christ, and Revelation 11:4 speaks of two lamp-stands. In my mind I'm wondering if that represents the faithful remnant from all the churches, i.e if the seven churches represent all the churches, and the two faithful represent the faithful remnant drawn from among all the churches, symbolized as the two lamp-stands in Revelation 11:4

It's just a thought that's come up in my mind, not a "belief". LOL. I'm still wondering about the numeral "two" as it relates to the lamp-stands (not the olive trees).

I'm grateful that this thread has caused me to go back prayerfully to this subject because though before this I realized that Zechariah 4 must be giving some sort of indication as to what Revelation 11:4 signifies, I did not understand what it was and satisfied myself that I did not know what the identity of the two witnesses is, and may never know before I die. This thread has changed all that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know I disagreed with the connection you find between the olive tree of Romans 11 and the two olive trees of Revelation 11, but it's nevertheless obvious IMO that Zechariah 4 is where Paul gets the symbol of the olive tree from that he used in Romans 11. At least it's now obvious to me (it wasn't before).

And the lamp-stands of Revelation 11:4 are definitely made up of all believers - Jew and Gentile.

Having in mind the remnant of the faithful saints at the time of Christ's return, I don't know whether or not it's significant that of the seven churches only two received only commendation from Christ, and Revelation 11:4 speaks of two lamp-stands. In my mind I'm wondering if that represents the faithful remnant from all the churches, i.e if the seven churches represent all the churches, and the two faithful represent the faithful remnant drawn from among all the churches, symbolized as the two lamp-stands in Revelation 11:4

That's possible. It's not what I personally believe, but it's certainly a viable possibility. It is interesting that, of the seven churches, only two of them consisted of faithful believers that Jesus didn't need to rebuke.

It's just a thought that's come up in my mind, not a "belief". LOL. I'm still wondering about the numeral "two" as it relates to the lamp-stands (not the olive trees).

It's a reasonable thing to consider.

I'm grateful that this thread has caused me to go back prayerfully to this subject because though before this I realized that Zechariah 4 must be giving some sort of indication as to what Revelation 11:4 signifies, I did not understand what it was and satisfied myself that I did not know what the identity of the two witnesses is, and may never know before I die. This thread has changed all that.

Right. God can reveal anything to us. The scripture is meant to be understood or else it wouldn't have been written. We just have to ask Him to give us wisdom (James 1:5-7).