God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

[Nancy]

That makes sense. I agree.
But I'm guessing you wouldn't "throw someone under the bus" over a minor doctrinal difference? (like UR) - LOL

NEVER!!! Lol, it seems there is always going to be differences of doctrinal belief, even within the same body/local church's.

 

[St. SteVen]

To your question, can someone who believes in a "prosperity Jesus" be a true believer? Is that what you are getting at?

Clearly not a "salvation" issue. (as the saying goes)
I think if what we are calling a "true" believer ALSO believes that God is blessing them materially,
but are not worshiping materialism as a god, they are pretty much as "true" as anyone else. IMHO

No, I wouldn't sideline someone that believes in a "prosperity gospel" any more than I would trash someone
that is a full TULIP Calvinist. (that's the worst thing I could come up with on the spot) - LOL

Believe me. a "prosperity gospel" believer in a Porsche is a lot more fun to hang with than a Calvinist in a Camry. - LOL
Just sayin'.

 

[St. SteVen]

The question that comes to my mind for a person seemingly in a losing position, is whether or that person is growing toward God? If the answer really is, yes, then God may be pleased as He was pleased with some OT people who fell short of what God would apparently expect from a person ultimately.

For example, consider David, the king who had wives rather than one wife.

Mt 19:4	And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mt 19:5	And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

I wonder about how much of our own culture we project onto ancient cultures.
Polygamy is outlawed in the US, except in Utah. But it was common in ancient times.
And multiple wives for kings had political reasons.

Let's not even discuss concubines... (unless you want to) - LOL

They had arranged marriages too. We don't do that in modern culture.
But in some cases, maybe we should have. - LOL
What's the divorce rate in the US?

 

[JPPT1974]

Well as believers we are saved by God through Jesus Christ. His Word the Bible never lies. God never changes and His Word never changes at all.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well as believers we are saved by God through Jesus Christ. His Word the Bible never lies. God never changes and His Word never changes at all.

Do you show the signs of a believer?
As you say, "... the Bible never lies. God never changes and His Word never changes at all."

Mark 16:16-18 NIV
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all;
they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

 

[amadeus]

I wonder about how much of our own culture we project onto ancient cultures.
Polygamy is outlawed in the US, except in Utah. But it was common in ancient times.
And multiple wives for kings had political reasons.

Let's not even discuss concubines... (unless you want to) - LOL

They had arranged marriages too. We don't do that in modern culture.
But in some cases, maybe we should have. - LOL
What's the divorce rate in the US?

While I hear what you are saying regarding current laws and cultural practices, some things are ultimately not OK with God. If a person lives so long serving and continues to grow, eventually in any time or culture he would eliminate all things that displease God. If he runs out of time before making everything right, will he lose any place in God's kingdom? I would say, no, so long as he was working unto the end primarily toward accomplishing God's purposes. This also as I see it is covered under the following words of Jesus:

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more "much is given... much is required"

This would also include "time available".

 

[Arthur81]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

Let me suggest a different meaning to the passage that I don't see in this thread. Let me quote the verse in a larger context -

"...but refuse profane and old wives' fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness: for bodily exercise is profitable for a little; but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life which now is, and of that which is to come. Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation. For to this end we labour and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." (1Tim 4:7-10 ERV)

Is the saving of all men, talking about the same thing as the saving of believers? I do not believe so.

I see a distinction here between "bodily exercise is profitable a little" (which is here on earth) and "godliness that is profitable for all things"(which is not only on earth, but in the future, eternity). I see two areas here, life here on earth which ALL men experience; and the life of believers expressed as "godliness" which means salvation not only here on earth, but also in eternity.

The salvation that is for ALL men here on earth is the goodness and kindness upon all for their preservation: “that ye may be sons of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.” (Matt 5:45 ERV) “The LORD is good to all; and his tender mercies are over all his works. All thy works shall give thanks unto thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.” (Ps 145:9-10 ERV)

The Greek-English Lexicons do define the word “Savior” that is used here as: “saviour, deliverer, preserver”, from the AMGL

To me this is the most consistent understanding of the verse in question.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are saved ultimately when you are resurrected into a different type body, and allowed to enter into heaven, and given eternal life from Jesus the Christ. Not before then.

Why do posters only read the topic title and skip the OP?

 

[dev553344]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

OK, I'll answer the OP, people aren't saved until they have eternal life, they are resurrected after they die, and are invited into heaven. I suppose if God tells someone he is going to save them then he will do it. But just thinking a person is saved for this reason or that has no real value to it. As only God decides who is saved. Only God has power to save someone.

Justification comes from both works and faith. Some who can't do works are justified thru faith. Others better do good works as described by Jesus thru out the bible including the sheep and goats.

Jesus spelled out a church for the apostles in the bible, they all sold all their possessions or donated them to the group and all lived in common, and all had according to their needs. And that is probably why it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of the needle. And I think this applies today, storing up money and possessions may not be desirable to God.

 

[Lambano]

God wants to save Christians too.

- And God only knows why.

Why do posters only read the topic title and skip the OP?

Too many years of being conditioned by clickbait?

Sorry, man. Couldn't resist.

 

[Behold]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

Here is how to understand your verse.

Lets use this one, so that we can see what is happening, when we apply the context to your verse.


Jesus is Lord of ALL. = Every knee shall bow and proclaim it.

Yet a person says....

"but the unbelievers dont have Him as their Lord"..

So, that is the wrong understanding... See, Jesus is LORD...... and if you believe it, or if you dont..... makes no difference.
He is LORD of the living and the dead.
That is His Eternal Status, and is not qualified by man's faith, or disqualified by man's unbelief...


So, when we read that Jesus is the Savior of all Men... especially THEM... that believe..
That is the same as Jesus being THE LORD, no matter if you believe or not.

See it?

Its like this......God provided one SAVIOR....and He is THE ONLY Savior..

He is the Savior of all Men, by being the only one Available for all men, people.
THOSE who believe, are THOSE who have become His own...

If you never believe, that does not preclude Jesus from Being THE LORD and THE Savior.

 

[St. SteVen]

Too many years of being conditioned by clickbait?

Brilliant response. - LOL


New topic. (going for a world record)

The "Yeah, but..." school of doctrine - Bible versus Bible

We have all been there. You present your doctrinal position and give biblical support for it. The response is, "Yeah, but..." and then your "opponent" gives their differing doctrinal position with biblical support. So basically, Bible versus Bible. (who will win?) Ironically, the WORDS "Yeah...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

St. Steve said:
God wants to save Christians too.

- And God only knows why.

Seriously. Senseless grace?

 

[St. SteVen]

OK, I'll answer the OP, people aren't saved until they have eternal life, they are resurrected after they die, and are invited into heaven. I suppose if God tells someone he is going to save them then he will do it. But just thinking a person is saved for this reason or that has no real value to it. As only God decides who is saved. Only God has power to save someone.

Justification comes from both works and faith. Some who can't do works are justified thru faith. Others better do good works as described by Jesus thru out the bible including the sheep and goats.

Jesus spelled out a church for the apostles in the bible, they all sold all their possessions or donated them to the group and all lived in common, and all had according to their needs. And that is probably why it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of the needle. And I think this applies today, storing up money and possessions may not be desirable to God.

There you go. I appreciate the effort.

Are you saying that you do not have assurance of salvation?

Perhaps you are the Christian that God wants to save? ???

 

[Lambano]

Seriously. Senseless grace?

That's my humorous way of restating the classic Reformed axiom that God saves Christians for reasons known only to Himself and not based on any merit within themselves. Hey, "senseless grace" may be the best kind.

(I'm easily amused. Or maybe the laughter masks the uncertainty. Who knows?)

 

[St. SteVen]

maybe the laughter masks the uncertainty.

What would faith be if we knew for sure?

 

[St. SteVen]

@Episkopos
Sorry to see that your topic: Forgiveness vs Atonement
was shut down. But, 29 pages is a good run. Kudos.

You've been a good reader this week.
What's your next GREAT topic idea? (nudge)

 

[Behold]

@Episkopos
Sorry to see that your topic: Forgiveness vs Atonement

29 pages of his bizarre theology, is 29 pages too much.

Ive tried to get Him to tell us whose commentaries he's using, when he starts his Threads and Videos and Posts, that are always based on them.

He wont tell me. He wont tell any of us, as a few have asked Him.
He also does not deny it.

So, what does that tell you ??????????????????

Maybe he will tell you, @St. SteVen

If he does pm you, and tells you..... then at least you'll know.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos
Sorry to see that your topic: Forgiveness vs Atonement
was shut down. But, 29 pages is a good run. Kudos.

Yes...too many hecklers and haters of sound doctrine I'm afraid. Way too much immaturity. I like that you don't take yourself too seriously. I don't either. The truth is serious. But the truth needs to be lived out...not just believed in (or about) ...allowed to stand on its own merit without all the silly speculations...so obviously carnal. Yet no one seems to notice. It's like the flesh nature...the elephant in the room...always has to be deferred to. When there is a lack of humour and people think that their indoctrination is worth frowning on others for...well, that's the kind of situation that wrecks any chance for real edification. A little leaven leavens the whole lot...A LOT of leaven....well..

You've been a good reader this week.
What's your next GREAT topic idea? (nudge)

What can people handle? Anything beyond the modern superficial self-serving gospel and some here get into a cataclysmic snit.

A thread about the great apostasy would only bring out the evidence of why that is...

This is a great thread and a lot truer than many would think.

 

[Episkopos]

29 pages of his bizarre theology, is 29 pages too much.

So why do you post what you have been indoctrinated to believe?

Ive tried to get Him to tell us whose commentaries he's using, when he starts his Threads and Videos and Posts, that are always based on them.

I try to get you to read the bible. But you would rather read Mormon stuff. I try to get you to seek God...but you insist on twisting what little bible you have been taught to think gives you a license to sin.

He wont tell me. He wont tell any of us, as a few have asked Him.
He also does not deny it.

I also mainly igore your superficial observation..too carnal to take part in.

So, what does that tell you ??????????????????

Maybe he will tell you, @St. SteVen

If he does pm you, and tells you..... then at least you'll know.

St. SteVen doesn't need molly coddling. And I am not your babysitter.