God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

[St. SteVen]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

 

[Episkopos]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

Very good. Believers are called to rule with Christ...not just be saved. Many are called, but few are chosen. In a wedding feast there are many more guests than brides. (Always a bridesmaid, never a bride? )

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

In MHO also. The most stubborn form of outer man, is the religious one who has been indoctrinated into thinking he is safe from judgment...sort of like king Agag who thought the bitterness of death was past...just before being cut into pieces by Samuel.

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

Discussion pre-supposes that enough people care to question their certainties. More like..care to attack?

 

[Pearl]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

Going to church won't save you. Reading a bible won't save you. Doing good deeds won't save you. Being brought up in a Christian home won't save you. Believing in God won't save you. Although all these things are good, of themselves they won't save you. The only way to be saved is to repent and seek God's forgiveness for your sin and turning your life over to Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

Going to church won't save you. Reading a bible won't save you. Doing good deeds won't save you. Being brought up in a Christian home won't save you. Believing in God won't save you. Although all these things are good, of themselves they won't save you. The only way to be saved is to repent and seek God's forgiveness for your sin and turning your life over to Jesus.

And never assume that because you are seeking something, that that seeking justifies you. Staying humble and unassuming is the secret to salvation. What we think has no value. We only get in the way.

 

[amadeus]

Going to church won't save you. Reading a bible won't save you. Doing good deeds won't save you. Being brought up in a Christian home won't save you. Believing in God won't save you. Although all these things are good, of themselves they won't save you. The only way to be saved is to repent and seek God's forgiveness for your sin and turning your life over to Jesus.

And never assume that because you are seeking something, that that seeking justifies you. Staying humble and unassuming is the secret to salvation. What we think has no value. We only get in the way.

Mt 6:33

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

When is it, if ever, that we should stop seeking? When is it then that God will stop adding things to us?
What is our limit?
What is God's limit?

 

[Episkopos]

Mt 6:33

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

When is it, if ever, that we should stop seeking? When is it then that God will stop adding things to us?
What is our limit?
What is God's limit?

To seek is good. To humbly seek is better.

 

[amadeus]

To seek is good. To humbly seek is better.

Amen!

Where is it that one starts each day and each moment? For me I have found the answer in the lowest room. Not surprisingly I guess, some disagree saying that means something else. Perhaps it does, but to me it means a place to begin and to allow God one more time to hopefully lift me up higher:

Lu 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11	For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

Who says believers are hard to save?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said :
So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

In MHO also. The most stubborn form of outer man, is the religious one who has been indoctrinated into thinking he is safe from judgment...sort of like king Agag who thought the bitterness of death was past...just before being cut into pieces by Samuel.

Right. Reminds me of this verse.

Matthew 21:31 NIV
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes
are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV

So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news.
His salvation of all will include "believers". As a subset of all.

So, why are believers so hard to save? They are trapped in a religious mindset. IMHO

Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!

Agree or disagree?
Let's discuss. Thanks.


@Patrick1966

this makes no sens. a true believer is saved.

so why does he need to be saved?

 

[St. SteVen]

this makes no sens. a true believer is saved.

so why does he need to be saved?

Good question.

A "true" believer? What does that mean?
Those in your religious tribe?

In this scripture, "those who believe" are a subset of "all people". (who are saved)

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[CadyandZoe]

this makes no sens. a true believer is saved.

so why does he need to be saved?

Good question. His/her position is that eventually, God will save every person who ever lived. Accordingly, those who don't make the first cut, are placed in a "rehabilitation" camp until they "see" the wickedness of their ways. If that ain't torture, I don't know what is.

 

[St. SteVen]

I had forgotten about this topic. I was alerted to some reactions.

What is a "true" believer? (see post #11)

 

[Nancy]

I had forgotten about this topic. I was alerted to some reactions.

What is a "true" believer?

IMHO, a true believer is one who is justified upon conversion, it frees the believer from penalty ofm sin.
Then I see sanctification that frees us from the POWER of sin, and I see this as being progressive.
And, ultimately, true Christians will become glorified just as Jesus was! It frees the believer from the "presence" of sin forever, amen!

 

[St. SteVen]

IMHO, a true believer is one who is justified upon conversion, it frees the believer from penalty ofm sin.
Then I see sanctification that frees us from the POWER of sin, and I see this as being progressive.
And, ultimately, true Christians will become glorified just as Jesus was! It frees the believer from the "presence" of sin forever, amen!

That's good thanks.
I usually see the term from posters differentiating themselves from those they have petty doctrinal disagreements with
by claiming those with their own personal opinions are "true" believers. Which I usually question.
Looks like that is where this discussion left off.

From the OP:
"Come on, do you really believe that EVERYONE who calls themselves "Christian" will be saved?
Will you be saved because you belong to this or that church? Or by your stellar works portfolio?
Get real!"

 

[St. SteVen]

IMHO, a true believer is one who is justified upon conversion, it frees the believer from penalty ofm sin.
Then I see sanctification that frees us from the POWER of sin, and I see this as being progressive.
And, ultimately, true Christians will become glorified just as Jesus was! It frees the believer from the "presence" of sin forever, amen!

Do you have the same reaction that I do to the term "true" believer?
It's like... as opposed to what?

 

[Nancy]

Do you have the same reaction that I do to the term "true" believer?
It's like... as opposed to what?

As opposed to a pew warmer who thinks if they sit in a church once a week they will somehow become a believer. Many false Christians out there, I personally know quite a few, and I myself was one in the past.

 

[Azim]

I had forgotten about this topic. I was alerted to some reactions.

What is a "true" believer? (see post #11)

I think it was because of me, as I was looking through this thread earlier, lol.

To your question, can someone who believes in a "prosperity Jesus" be a true believer? Is that what you are getting at?

 

[amadeus]

I think it was because of me, as I was looking through this thread earlier, lol.

To your question, can someone who believes in a "prosperity Jesus" be a true believer? Is that what you are getting at?

The question that comes to my mind for a person seemingly in a losing position, is whether or that person is growing toward God? If the answer really is, yes, then God may be pleased as He was pleased with some OT people who fell short of what God would apparently expect from a person ultimately.

For example, consider David, the king who had wives rather than one wife.

Mt 19:4	And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mt 19:5	And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Why was David then called the apple of God's eye and a man after God's own heart? Reading his history filled with errors or sins we see yet that the man was learning by his mistakes. He was repenting as he recognized his errors.
Trying to weigh all of these things in any other person should make it clearer to us as to why Jesus said:

Mt 7:1	Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mt 7:2	For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Jesus also said:

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

These things considered, I am certainly not qualified to finally judge any man. I do not know all of the facts and if I did could I correctly assess them and come up with God's answer?

 

[St. SteVen]

As opposed to a pew warmer who thinks if they sit in a church once a week they will somehow become a believer. Many false Christians out there, I personally know quite a few, and I myself was one in the past.

That makes sense. I agree.
But I'm guessing you wouldn't "throw someone under the bus" over a minor doctrinal difference? (like UR) - LOL