Gods Standard is...

[stunnedbygrace]

You and I and all of the rest of us are "good" at coming to conclusions. Have any of us ever changed our mind? But then God...

"For I am the LORD, I change not..." Mal 3:6

Mmm...I changed my mind. At first I was mad at God and thought He could have found a better way than killing Jesus, who I madly loved. I told Jesus I would talk to Him but not to God. Then I read John for the second time and saw that Jesus WAS God, and I changed my mind.

 

[marks]

That could be. But, we also read that God chose us in Christ from before the foundation of the world. And we read that Jesus was foreordained before the foundation of the world and now made manifest for us. And we read, come, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. And we also read that He saved us and called us according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Hi SBG,

I like to go with the immediate context, and if that clears it up, and doesn't conflict anywhere else, that I see this answered.

In considering whether Revelation 13:8 should be understood differently from what 17:8 seems clearly to say, I'm thinking of Hebrews 9:

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

In that Christ entered into heaven, this is that Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, ascended into heaven.

In that He appeared once in the end of the world, rather than having suffered from the foundation of the world, these are different, and therefore Jesus was crucified at a given time.

As Jesus was incarnated a man, and that man was crucified on the cross, and it was a man who came out from the tomb (God & Man of course), this all happened in this world, in this creation.

I think about God's book, in which He will blot out the names of those who sin. Naturally those whose sin is not imputed are not blotted.

But those whose sins are not justified, these names do not remain in God's book. These shall worship the beast.

Again, how I see it.

Much love!

ps . . . @bbyrd009 . . . some more of my reasoning.

 

[amadeus]

Mmm...I changed my mind. At first I was mad at God and thought He could have found a better way than killing Jesus, who I madly loved. I told Jesus I would talk to Him but not to God. Then I read John for the second time and saw that Jesus WAS God, and I changed my mind.

When I was a young Catholic [mostly in the 1950's] I was certain that only Catholics had it correct about God but then I changed my mind. When I was a Oneness Jesus Only several years later I again thought that this was the place, but then I changed my mind again. This happened at least one more time after that... and now I've changed my mind again.

Now I am certain that I know very little at all, but hopefully I will realize that it's getting late, but I am tired from all of that mind changing. I guess maybe now without changing my own mind I will leave all of the changing to Him...

Give God... the one who never changes... all of the glory!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I didn't follow you there marks but it's okay, you are absolutely entitled to your view.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I was a young Catholic [mostly in the 1950's] I was certain that only Catholics had it correct about God but then I changed my mind. When I was a Oneness Jesus Only several years later I again thought that this was the place, but then I changed my mind again. This happened at least one more time after that... and now I've changed my mind again.

Now I am certain that I know very little at all, but hopefully I will realize that it's getting late, but I am tired from all of that mind changing. I guess maybe now without changing my own mind I will leave all of the changing to Him...

Give God... the one who never changes... all of the glory!

I think the trouble would be if your mind DIDNT change. Unless your mind is completely renewed, which is doubtful!

 

[amadeus]

I think the trouble would be if your mind DIDNT change. Unless your mind is completely renewed, which is doubtful!

Well this is how it really is, isn't it? Does the same mind work for the new man as for the old man? I might at the first say, no, but then...

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Phil 2:5

Is that speaking of a mind replacement or simply a second new mind? But then when we consider this verse:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

This indicates a change in his mind, does it not, as he increased in those things?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I just read phil2, (my version says let this same attitude be in you as was in Christ), but the interesting thing to me right now, because its a discussion I was just having, re: is Jesus God, was further down, where it says: though He was God, He did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, He gave up His divine privileges, took the humble position of a slave, and was born as a human being. When He appeared in human form...etc.

So in looking up the passage for the verse you gave, look what I found! Ty, Amadeus!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Mouthful there i guess lol

You made me lose it when I read this! I couldn't stop laughing!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You wouldn't apply it to Christ? You don't think John was talking about Jesus? Thanks for the like even though you didn't agree with me.

Oooh! Bbyrd, I finally understood what you were saying here! You were saying that you see a distinction between Jesus and Christ, right? I would like to hear more of your thought on that...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I just read phil2, (my version says let this same attitude be in you as was in Christ), but the interesting thing to me right now, because its a discussion I was just having, re: is Jesus God, was further down, where it says: though He was God, He did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, He gave up His divine privileges, took the humble position of a slave, and was born as a human being. When He appeared in human form...etc.

So in looking up the passage for the verse you gave, look what I found! Ty, Amadeus!

I know some people think my NLT is crap but I love it!

 

[amadeus]

When I just read phil2, (my version says let this same attitude be in you as was in Christ), but the interesting thing to me right now, because its a discussion I was just having, re: is Jesus God, was further down, where it says: though He was God, He did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, He gave up His divine privileges, took the humble position of a slave, and was born as a human being. When He appeared in human form...etc.

So in looking up the passage for the verse you gave, look what I found! Ty, Amadeus!

This is, I believe, a frequent thing among those who believe and read and search the scriptures. Many times when seeking one thing God will respond to me with something complete new or the answer to a question I could never find when I was specifically looking for it. I have over the years heard many others giving similar testimonies or have read them on forum posts. God is still working in and on people. They simply have to be putting first things first and He will simply be adding things to them. [See Matt 6:33]

Give God the glory!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And so, I of course decided to read all of phillipians and another discussion I had been having was over soul sleep versus going to be with Jesus when we die and I found this! - Paul himself believed he would go be with Jesus when he died! He said he was torn between desiring to go and be with Christ and wanting to live longer because it would be best for them.

I am really happy you brought up Philippians. Tickled even!

 

[Nancy]

"But the Lord was not slain before the foundation of the world. The names were recorded in the book before the foundation of the world. Interpret with the parallel passage.

The Jesus was crucified within this space/time continuum, once for all, when the time was right.

"You are my son, today I have begotten you." There was a time when Jesus was the begotten of the Father, before that Jesus was seen in the Messenger of YHWH, my understanding.

Meanwhile, all whose names do not remain written in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world will worship the beast and his image.
..."
Hi Marks!
Just want to throw my 2 pennies in here. God has always lived in the continuum of 'eternity'. He already knows the beginning from the end. In other words, what we are now living (humans) has already happened in Gods view. I picture eternity as a huge canvas depicting time itself. It would start with God's creation and, end with His prophecy concerning the future (our 'time') He lives outside of time but, still knew in His Omniscience every single thing that would happen, every single choice humans would make. God say's He even knew us before we were born: "But when He who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through His grace . . ." (Galatians 1:15)"
♥

 

[bbyrd009]

Mmm...you sort of need all of it to arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is who John is talking about...

He begins by saying in the beginning the word already existed. Seems to be referring us back to the beginning of Genesis, which also begins: In the beginning.

In the beginning the word already existed. The word was with God and the word was God. So what's "the word?"

John answers that next. He says the word is a HE.
He existed in the beginning with God.
God created everything through HIM.

Etc., etc., until you (or at least I) come to a lot of conclusions.

Well, tbh i was going to say this am that if any of the Bible is to be trusted, you pretty much made your point imo, but yes. I know you seek Christ, sbg, but i would ask you to reflect on how we are sold Jesus, whom wadr you expect to one day see with Two Eyes. And see if it were to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that He never actually existed as a person, I would still follow "Him." Mostly bc of the evidence i have experienced, that imo the NT does not overstate, that can even be witnessed, is witnessed by those around me, even though they don't usually say it out loud lol

I still believe that every eye will see Him, sure enough, though. But plucking out your right eye is tough, i can't even say i did it tbh, more like i'm brain damaged and came that way, if anything.

Break up Nehushtan your own way imo, doesn't have to be my way, you don't have to literally walk out that door i guess, lotsa better hearts than mine sign 501c3s, pay taxes, vote, pay mortgages, all that. But you can burn incense, or become a sweet-smelling savor to God yourself, but imo you can't hardly do both.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't care for how we are sold Jesus at all. I don't care for many things we are sold. I don't even care for how we are taught to pray. I have never prayed the way I hear others pray. For a long time I thought I wasn't even praying since it was nothing like the prayers of others I heard. There is so much of what men "teach" or try to sell that I reject and will have no parts of.

 

[bbyrd009]

God created everything through HIM

We personify spirits to make analogies, and then forget that there are no sex organs involved at all, i guess. No persons, no souls Up There, no one to sit down and have a cuppa with and ask questions. There is only One Immortal, Three in Two, but only One i guess. Might seem pointlessly convoluted, but who wants to "worship" a god they can comprehend? Lots of ppl, as it turns out, so i guess we need all that or something, but there is no judgement for beliefs, at least that i can find?

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't care for how we are sold Jesus at all. I don't care for many things we are sold. I don't even care for how we are taught to pray. I have never prayed the way I hear others pray. For a long time I thought I wasn't even praying since it was nothing like the prayers of others I heard. There is so much of what men "teach" or try to sell that I reject and will have no parts of.

ya, me too. I do pray in away, but then i (have learned to) get ready for a lesson. Bc i started out praying for something, to Santa Claus basically, and then i realized that i was being led, literally, through the same scenario again and again, and doing/reacting the same way, expecting diff results. Then i gave up and gave in the twelfth--ha what a weird word--time or whatever, and things changed? I mostly say "thank you Father" to the air and make ppl uncomfortable now lol, i guess. Actually that doesn't seem to bother anyone, i dunno. Most everything else i do sure seems to though

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess I would need to know if instilled means taught, first of all.

Ya, I mean instilled, indoctrinated, by our parents. Who...naturally the way the Bible uses it now want us to make it in the world and be successful

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ya, I mean instilled, indoctrinated, by our parents. Who...naturally the way the Bible uses it now want us to make it in the world and be successful

Maybe we were defining habit differently then. I see that some are taught us. Others are...selfgenerated based on what makes us feel comfortable, in control, and unafraid.

 

[bbyrd009]

"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Psalm 2:7

Ah, some more declaring decrees by a king, no less. but that is not my reply, that just came out after Reading the what came before v7. My reply is that that was said about David, right, David is the Son there, yes? Gotta scroll up now to see if i am still having a convo with you or if i am tryna drive now lol, but i think this address that maybe, brb