God's Wrath Upon Jesus on The Cross??

[ChristisGod]

I have not said that his relationship was broken, but in bearing our sin his relationship changed.
Why else did he cry out about being ' foresaken'
Jesus's torment in the garden was not wholy about the physical pain he would endure, but also abut the spiritual pain as a sinless being he became sin.

God is immutable and there cannot be any change within the Godhead. Their eternal relationship as Father/Son never changed for a millisecond otherwise God changed and the perfect unity within Them no longer existed nor was is eternal. So based upon God innate Being that was an impossibility.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dropship]

I've heard this silly idea preached by some in the pulpit, that The Father just totally abandoned Lord Jesus upon His cross..

It proves that a fool with a theology degree is still just a fool..

 

[quietthinker]

Let me offer a different suggestion. Jesus was in the throes of agony, felt forsaken, and quoted the Psalm simply because its words came to mind (particularly after he saw the soldiers dividing his garments by casting lots and heard the chief priests and scribes mocking him with his apparent inability to save himself) -- without any intention to have a teaching moment for posterity.

Consider the possibility that the teaching moment was Matthew's rather than Christ's.

You speak of this as if you've read it in a novel. It is as removed from the real Jesus in a way which indicates a lack of connection

 

[RedFan]

You speak of this as if you've read it in a novel. It is as removed from the real Jesus in a way which indicates a lack of connection

Not sure I follow you, my friend. I'm happy to presume a connection between Matthew's account and Jesus' actual words. Indeed, I'm happy to presume that Matthew accurately recorded all of the goings-on at the crucifixion, even though it does not appear that he personally was present. (I might have an issue with the apparent contradiction between Matthew's account of the goings-on and Luke's, but that's another story.)

 

[Nancy]

Yes, He did. But what actually is that "cup" He was pointing to? I believe He was referring to the future cup of God's Wrath poured out upon the wicked on the last day of this world at His future coming, per Revelation 19. I fathom Him being more concerned about having to do that future event than worrying about Himself upon His cross like some want to think.

I mean, IF we try to treat Lord Jesus when He was in the flesh exactly like us in the flesh, then wouldn't it mean that He had sin like us? Yet as written, He was without sin. That means He was NOT tempted by His flesh, otherwise He would have had sin; and just who would want us to believe Jesus sinned while in the flesh?

"That means He was NOT tempted by His flesh, otherwise He would have had sin"

Jesus was tempted in all ways we are so yes, He was tempted in the flesh. Just because He was tempted does not mean He ever sinned, cause like you said, He did NOT sin once.

Satan tempted Him with bread, and power...that would be being tempted in the flesh, no?

Hebrews 4:15
15 "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
JustMy2c.
Be nice!!

 

[Matthias]

God poured out his wrath on himself? Lord have mercy.

 

[ChristisGod]

God poured out his wrath on himself? Lord have mercy.

Did you ever read my exegesis and paper I wrote on that topic from a Trinitarian perspective?

It’s in 4 parts below , it what convinced me Calvinism was wrong when I started an in depth study on the topic .

The WRATH of God poured out on Christ … where?

 

[Davy]

"That means He was NOT tempted by His flesh, otherwise He would have had sin"

Jesus was tempted in all ways we are so yes, He was tempted in the flesh. Just because He was tempted does not mean He ever sinned, cause like you said, He did NOT sin once.

Satan tempted Him with bread, and power...that would be being tempted in the flesh, no?

Hebrews 4:15
15 "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin."
JustMy2c.
Be nice!!

Some choose to think just with the wicked offering Jesus a temptation, like in Matthew 22:15-18, that it means the idea of 'test' means being tempted. I don't see it that way, because to be tempted means caving into to the temptation.

In Revelation 3 of what Jesus said to the Church of Philadelphia is an example of what I'm saying. Jesus told them since they had kept the Word of His patience, that He would keep them from the "hour of temptation". Some interpret that to mean a pre-trib rapture literal physical escape, I don't.

I interpret it to mean when the 'temptation' that is to come upon the whole... world at the end, that Church is promised to NOT be tempted. In other words, the thing that will tempt and thus deceive the whole world (like Revelation 13:7-8), will not be a temptation for Christ's elect. And that temptation event won't have anything to do with physical escape for the elect.

It's very simple actually, if someone shows up among your friends saying they are so-and-so, deceiving your friends, but you know that person is false, then you simply won't be tempted by that false person. It doesn't mean you have to physically escape their presence to not be tempted.

 

[Behold]

read my previous response because Jesus promised His disciples they would drink the same cup Jesus drank.

Except for John and Judas, all the original 12 were murdered.
IF you've not read Foxe's Book of Martyr's, you should get it.
Its very inspiriing and informative.

 

[ChristisGod]

Except for John and Judas, all the original 12 were murdered.
IF you've not read Foxe's Book of Martyr's, you should get it.
Its very inspiriing and informative.

Excellent book I bought it in 1980.

 

[Waiting on him]

Maybe what Jesus was teaching on the Cross is that God is not coming to save your flesh?

 

[Behold]

Excellent book I bought it in 1980.

Have you read CS Lewis's : The Screwtape Letters

 

[Behold]

Maybe what Jesus was teaching on the Cross is that God is not coming to save your flesh?

"Your Body is dead because of sin"

This is why the born again get a new body.
The old one does not FIT the "Born again Spirit".
See that?

So, the born again, (not the water baptized christian fakir)...but the born again, Spiritually, are already "in Christ', "one with God".
This is why the NT tells you that you are ALREADY "seated in heavenly places"..."in Christ".
See that?

"but im in a body".
That body is just an earth suit...... the real you is IN IT..
The body, goes back to the earth = DEATH.
The real you, is the SPIRIT that is IN the body, and this is a part of GOD, if you are born again.

See, God is A SPIRIT.....
See that?
And we JOIN HIM< Spiritually, when we are born again BY the Spirit of GOD.
We literally become a part of God's "body of Christ" which is to become "ONE WITH GOD">......spiritually.

 

[Waiting on him]

"Your Body is dead because of sin"

This is why the born again get a new body.
The old one does not FIT the "Born again Spirit".
See that?

So, the born again, (not the water baptized christian fakir)...but the born again, Spiritually, are already "in Christ', "one with God".
This is why the NT tells you that you are ALREADY "seated in heavenly places"..."in Christ".
See that?

"but im in a body".
That body is just an earth suit...... the real you is IN IT..
The body, goes back to the earth = DEATH.
The real you, is the SPIRIT that is IN the body, and this is a part of GOD, if you are born again.

See, God is A SPIRIT.....
See that?
And we JOIN HIM< Spiritually, when we are born again BY the Spirit of GOD.
We literally become a part of God's "body of Christ" which is to become "ONE WITH GOD">......spiritually.

I see a man nailing a useless thing to a cross, condemning it and rendering it useless.

 

[Waiting on him]

Colossians 2:14-15 KJV
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Behold]

I see a man nailing a useless thing to a cross, condemning it and rendering it useless.

MOSES law and commandments , are completely useless regarding delivering to you what God requires to save you and keep you saved.

 

[Behold]

Colossians 2:14-15 KJV
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

YES.

Praise GOD for His Grace who is His Son who is our Redemption.

 

[Webers_Home]

,

this silly idea
gross Biblical illiteracy!
go on a tirade
hide your disgust
false fad message
created by the wolves in sheep's clothing

I suggest that you be a bit more thoughtful with your choice of words lest
the hapless day arrive when you are forced to eat them.

"I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall
render account for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be
justified, and by your words you shall be condemned." (Matt 12:36-37)

I am not listening to you. You're a bad influence. Away with you to the abyss of Ignore.
_

 

[Davy]

,


I suggest that you be a bit more thoughtful with your choice of words lest
the hapless day arrive when you are forced to eat them.

"I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall
render account for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be
justified, and by your words you shall be condemned." (Matt 12:36-37)

I am not listening to you. You're a bad influence. Away with you to the abyss of Ignore.
_

Whatever you say o' great one. Your day of exalting yourself is soon coming to an end.

 

[brightfame52]

I've heard this silly idea preached by some in the pulpit, that The Father just totally abandoned Lord Jesus upon His cross, and even poured out His Wrath upon Lord Jesus by His going through the crucifixion! The reality is, that to teach such an idea shows gross Biblical illiteracy!

Those preachers simply do not... study all their Bible. They follow fad messages they hear others speak, and a lot of the time those they listen to are crept in unawares that exist to destroy Christ and His Word.

Matt 27:46
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"
KJV

Lord Jesus, while upon His cross, said that "Eli, Eli, ....", which is in the Aramaic language.

Some preachers will quote that and then go on a false tirade of how The Father abandoned Lord Jesus on His cross, making Him suffer, and it's almost like the preacher wants you to literally 'feel' the pain Lord Jesus went through on His cross! Some fake preachers even go farther with guilt tripping and try to say that WE killed Jesus! When you hear junk ideas like that from the pulpit, then you ought to know that preachers has been listening to the crept in unawares, Christ's enemies like wolves in sheep's clothing that sneak in among God's people.

The reason Lord Jesus said that, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani", was because He was still TEACHING, even while upon His cross!

Jesus was quoting the Psalms 22:1 verse, which Psalms 22 is a prophecy about Christ's crucifixion given about 1,000 years before through king David. Why would Lord Jesus quote that while upon the cross?

It was to SHOW that He is The Christ, The Messiah, prophesied to come per The Old Testament prophets! (yes, David was a prophet also). Right then, while upon the cross, He was revealing the fulfillment of that Psalms 22 prophecy He gave through king David about a thousand years prior.

So WHY... did the scribes and Pharisees not recognize His quote from Psalms 22? I mean, they supposedly knew what was written in the law and the prophets, right?

The point is, Lord Jesus 'chose' to suffer upon His cross, and The Father certainly did NOT abandon Lord Jesus while upon His cross. Lord Jesus knew He would suffer like us in the flesh, that was part of His purpose for being born in the flesh like us, and His Sacrifice was to defeat death for us, and He did, which only God could do.

So when you hear some preacher get up at the pulpit and go on a tirade about how The Father abandoned Lord Jesus while upon His cross, then just put your hand over your face and try to hide your disgust until that preacher gets done with that false fad message created by the wolves in sheep's clothing.

So do you believe Christ was punished by God, bruised by the Father, suffered the penalty of sin death because of the sins of those He died for being charged to Him ? Yes or no ?