Good Friday?

[FHII]

Well I,ve been in this debate several times and haven't seen evidence that anyone listens to facts, so what's one more time?

1. Three days and three nights: This is not a Jewish figure of speech or idiom, as commonly claimed. John Calvin is the earliest theologian I have read to make this claim (though I haven't read all the great theologians' works). But it is not backed by Biblical history or any other history. In fact, Jewish practices in fasting show it to be the opposite. A three day and three night fast will indeed be 72 hours and never less.

The same cannot be said for "three days". That can be vague, and there is no difference in the way western culture uses the term. There are instances in the Bible where "three days" was less than 72 hours; the same cannot be said with the phrase "three days and three nights".

So, if it were merely 3 days, the Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection would work, even though its roughly only 39 hours. But it doesn't work with "three days and three nights". Even IF a partial day and partial night can be counted, it would have to be at least 50 hours.

I believe it was a full 72 hours due to the Jewish understanding through fasting, as well as other things that will be brought up later.

Key points:

1. The belief that "3 days and 3 nights" is an idiom is false.
2. True understanding of the phrase is 72 hours, though it can be argued down to 50 hours.

 

[FHII]

2. Jesus resurrected before 6 PM on Saturday. We have 4 Gospels and 4 different accounts, which slightly differ. I am not saying any is wrong, it was just a different vantage point. And by the way, there is a movie called "Vantage Point" (has nothing to do with the Crucifixion) that demonstrates how many different accounts can be true, but different.

There is a detail people miss: the Bible (with one possible exception) never says when Jesus rose from the dead. The Gospels tell when the resurrection was discovered.

Here is the exception:

Mark 16:9 KJV
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Yes, that would be Sunday. However, even in Mark's account, when they came to the sepulcher he was already gone. Verse 2 says they came at the rising of the Sun.

Matthew has a different vantage point:

Matthew 28:1 KJV
In a the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The time here is late Saturday afternoon: what we would call around 6 PM. The weekly Sabbath was about to end. The Jewish 1st day of the week begins at sundown.

"Dawn" here is a verb; not a noun. Its not talking about sunrise. Its not talking about the first sunlight hours. Realtime is that it was still during the Sabbath, but it was almost over.

This is the earliest and most detailed account. But the thing that should be noted is that by any of the Gospels, when they came to the tomb he was already gone! No one saw him rise, nor documented it except a questionable Mark 16:9 .

Mark said he "was risen" (not rose) on the first day of the week. That was his vantage point. Matthew sais he already rose before the Sabbath ended.

Key Points:

1. While the Gospels differ, none of them give and exact time when Jesus rose. They only give a time when it was discovered.
2. The earliest account of when it was discovered is before the Sabbath ended.

 

[FHII]

3. Jesus died on Wednesday. If 3 days and 3 nights means 72 hours, and if he rose before 6 PM Saturday (the weekly Sabbath), then its easy to count back 72 hours. We know that he was dead and buried between 3 and 6 PM. Thus, the math is easy. He was buried between 3 and 6 PM on Wednesday and rose between 3 and 6 PM on Saturday. 72 hours. 3 days and 3 nights. Perfectly!

Now, there are more things to consider. I have laid down the timeline. But there are a lot of details to fill in, which will ultimately prove this timeline to be true. But have your fun in critiquing it. I will be posting more later.

Key Points:

1. Jesus rose before the Sabbath ended.
2. 3 days and 3 nights puts his Crucifixion on Wednesday.

 

[Robert Gwin]

.
● Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth.

Some years ago a skeptic asked me how to get three days and three nights
between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. It was an embarrassing
moment.

Well; Passover and Easter Sunday are just around the corner. So . . . .
_

He was in the grave for parts of three days, simple as that, if someone doesn't want to accept that, so be it.

 

[farouk]

Wednesday night
Thursday night
Friday night
rose Saturday night (the beginning of the first day.

@1stCenturyLady I have indeed heard attempts at explaining how the Eastern mind calculated the span of days....

 

[Webers_Home]

Saturday night (the beginning of the first day.

According to Jesus, days in the land of Israel back then were when the
sun is up and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9-10)

His understanding of the hours of day and night agree with Gen 1:4-5,
Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, and Gen 1:17-18 which define the hours of day and
night that God himself set in the very beginning.

Failure to keep the nighttime and daytime hours of Matt 12:40 distinctly
separate has led people to spinning some very unworkable chronologies.

BTW: If the first of Jesus' three days began at sundown, then when did the
first of his three nights begin: at dawn?
_

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady I have indeed heard attempts at explaining how the Eastern mind calculated the span of days....

In one of the gospels is specifies the Sabbath as being a "High" Sabbath. It was the feast of unleavened bread connected to the Passover.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

According to Jesus, days in the land of Israel back then were when the
sun is up and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9-10)

His understanding of the hours of day and night agree with Gen 1:4-5,
Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, and Gen 1:17-18 which define the hours of day and
night that God himself set in the very beginning.

Failure to keep the nighttime and daytime hours of Matt 12:40 distinctly
separate has led people to spinning some very unworkable chronologies.

BTW: If the first of Jesus' three days began at sundown, then when did the
first of his three nights begin: at dawn?
_

He died at 3:00 pm on Wednesday.

The counting is such:

Wednesday NIGHT
Thursday DAY
Thursday NIGHT
Friday DAY
Friday NIGHT
Saturday DAY

Saturday NIGHT is actually the beginning of the next day Sunday, so He rose on the beginning of Hebrew 1st day of the week, which is our modern Saturday night after the weekly Sabbath had ended.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Saturday NIGHT is actually the beginning of the next day Sunday

If your days begin at night, then when do your nights begin; at dawn?

Now, unbeknown to quite a few Bible students; holy days like the sabbath
begin at sundown, whereas according to Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16,
Gen 1:17-18, and John 11:9-10, normal days begin at sunup.

When people mix and mash the beginning of holy days with the beginning of
normal days, they inevitably end up spinning the chronology of Jesus'
crucifixion and resurrection. Until they learn to count the three days and nights
predicted by Matt 12:40 as normal days and nights, they will never get it right.
_

 

[1stCenturyLady]

f your days begin at night, then when do your nights begin; at dawn?

When you need the timing for the Sabbath, the Sabbath starts at sunset and ends at sunset the next day. So Friday at sunset and ends Saturday evening at sunset. Then Sunday starts Saturday evening at sunset, so Jesus rose just after the Sabbath ended.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

When you need the timing for the Sabbath, the Sabbath starts at sunset and
ends at sunset the next day. So Friday at sunset and ends Saturday evening
at sunset. Then Sunday starts Saturday evening at sunset, so Jesus rose
just after the Sabbath ended.

Saturday at sunset is the beginning of Saturday night, just as Friday at
sunset is the beginning of Friday night.

If you keep on insisting that the days of Matt 12:40 began at sunset and its
nights began at dawn, you will have to accept the very real possibility that
educated folk are going to write you off as a kook. I myself don't think
you're a kook; but I do suspect you've been misled by some clever talkers.
_

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Saturday at sunset is the beginning of Saturday night, just as Friday at
sunset is the beginning of Friday night.

Your mixing apples and oranges.

Jewish culture:
Sabbath begins from sunset to sunset as does each day.
This is why in scripture Jesus died at the ninth hour which is 3:00 pm counting from sunrise, not the 15th hour counting from midnight.

American culture:
Sabbath begins from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Jewish culture:
Sabbath begins from sunset to sunset as does each day.

When Jesus was living in the land of Israel, only holy days began at sunset
the previous day. All other days began at sunrise. Seeing as how the first
day of the week wasn't a holy day, then it began at sunrise as all secular
days did back then.

In other words: holy days began in darkness and ended with light; whereas
secular days were just the opposite; they began in light and ended with
darkness.

Holy days are patterned after God's creation itinerary. He began with
darkness, and ended with light. I don't know if that's significant, but it clicks.
_

 

[1stCenturyLady]

.


When Jesus was living in the land of Israel, only holy days began at sunset
the previous day. All other days began at sunrise. Seeing as how the first
day of the week wasn't a holy day, then it began at sunrise as all secular
days did back then.

In other words: holy days began in darkness and ended with light; whereas
secular days were just the opposite; they began in light and ended with
darkness.

Holy days are patterned after God's creation itinerary. He began with
darkness, and ended with light. I don't know if that's significant, but it clicks.
_

That is only half a day. A full day is from sunset to the next sunset.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well I,ve been in this debate several times and haven't seen evidence that anyone listens to facts, so what's one more time?

1. Three days and three nights: This is not a Jewish figure of speech or idiom, as commonly claimed. John Calvin is the earliest theologian I have read to make this claim (though I haven't read all the great theologians' works). But it is not backed by Biblical history or any other history. In fact, Jewish practices in fasting show it to be the opposite. A three day and three night fast will indeed be 72 hours and never less.

The same cannot be said for "three days". That can be vague, and there is no difference in the way western culture uses the term. There are instances in the Bible where "three days" was less than 72 hours; the same cannot be said with the phrase "three days and three nights".

So, if it were merely 3 days, the Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection would work, even though its roughly only 39 hours. But it doesn't work with "three days and three nights". Even IF a partial day and partial night can be counted, it would have to be at least 50 hours.

I believe it was a full 72 hours due to the Jewish understanding through fasting, as well as other things that will be brought up later.

Key points:

1. The belief that "3 days and 3 nights" is an idiom is false.
2. True understanding of the phrase is 72 hours, though it can be argued down to 50 hours.

So what did Calvin say???

 

[Webers_Home]

.
• Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth.

The easiest day to indentify in that prediction is the third day because the
Bible gives us that one.

By comparing Luke 24:1 with Luke 24:21-23 it's readily seen that the third
day would've been a Sunday had they labeled the days of the week back
then like we do today; so all we need do to obtain the identity of the other
two days is simply count backwards.

Now, back when Jesus was living in the land of Israel, days were counted
when the sun was up, and nights were counted when the sun was down
(John 11:9-10).

So then, if Sunday was the third day, then Saturday was the second day,
and Friday was the first day.

Saturday night was the third night, and Friday night was the second night,
leaving Thursday night as the first of the three nights.

That part of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection is so simple that even a
school kid can figure it out. The real challenge comes in identifying and
placing the high sabbath day spoken of at John 19:31. That day requires the
expertise of someone familiar enough with the Old Testament to know that
the routine sabbath isn't the only sabbath in the Bible. There are at least six
others:

First and final days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

Feast of Trumpets (Lev 23:23-25)

Yom Kippur (Lev 16:30-31)

First and final days of the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev 16:34-36, Lev 16:39)
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.

That is only half a day. A full day is from sunset to the next sunset.

Your "full day" is an amalgam of light and dark, which is contrary to the
conditions of day and night defined by Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16,
and Gen 1:17-18.

Back when Jesus was living in the land of Israel, the length of a day
complied with the conditions of day and night defined by Genesis, and
thus days were limited to a maximum of 12 hours rather than the 24
you're thinking of. (John 11:9-10)

One of the frequent errors that people make when calculating the chronology
of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection is that of working with 24-hour calendar
days instead of 12-hour physical days.
_

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

CGE Replies
(piece by piece)

Re: Webers_Home . <<If Hebrews days began and ended at sunset, then when did Hebrew nights begin and end? At sunrise?

Not really. Evening transitioned to night, which transitioned to day, and then to evening, giving a complete 24 hour cycle.>>

Reply:

I agree; just say ‘Not at all’ instead of <Not really>.

Re: Enoch111 <<with sunset day immediately changes to night>>

Reply:

Good
Re: Enoch111 <<distinguish between Passover, which is set for the fourteenth day of the month, and (the Festival ...of Unleavened Bread; ἑορτή τῶν ἀζύμων, Luke xxii. 1; Josephus, "B. J." ii. 1, § 3), appointed for the fifteenth day.>>

Reply:

Good

Re: Enoch111 <<from sunset on the fourteenth day to sunset on the twenty-first day>>

Reply:

Not good. Rather, ‘from sunset after the fourteenth day evening on the fifteenth day to after sunset evening on the twenty-first day’.

Re: Webers_Home <<Unknown to a pretty good number of Bible students is that Jesus and his men ate their Passover dinner the night of his arrest. (Matt 26:17-20, Mark 14:12-17, and Luke 22:7-15)
The Jews ate their Passover after he was dead and buried. (John 13:1-2, John 18:28-29, John 19:13-14, and John 19:31)
The Jews were somehow unaware that their religious calendar was tardy the year that Christ was crucified>>

Reply:

Jesus and his men did not eat their <<Passover dinner>> but the new, “Lord’s Supper” without flesh of sacrifice. 1Corinthians 11. There was nothing <tardy> with <their religious calendar>. The Last Supper was in the night of the 14th and the passover meal was supposed to come in the following night of the 15th. But nothing came of it because the Lamb of God would be the last passover lamb ever slaughtered and so “At That Night” John 19:39 there was no ‘seder’ or whatever meal for the eating to begin the Feast of ulb with.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

.


Your "full day" is an amalgam of light and dark, which is contrary to the
conditions of day and night defined by Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16,
and Gen 1:17-18.

Back when Jesus was living in the land of Israel, the length of a day
complied with the conditions of day and night defined by Genesis, and
thus days were limited to a maximum of 12 hours rather than the 24
you're thinking of. (John 9:10-11)

One of the frequent errors that people make when calculating the chronology
of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection is that of working with 24-hour calendar
days instead of 12-hour physical days.
_

John 9:10-11
10 Therefore they said to him, “How were your eyes opened?”

11 He answered and said, “A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to the pool of Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed, and I received sight.”

I think you have a typo.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

I think you have a typo.

Thank You.
_