Good Works Vs Works Of The Law

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GRACE ambassador

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Most people have zero clue about works
Precious friend, nor do Most have the same about
GRACE Through faith For God's FREE Gift Of Eternal Life! Amen?
When Paul said we are saved by grace, via faith, not by works, he was specifically talking about works of the law of Moses.
So, specifically, IF ONLY "the works of the law of Moses" DO NOT "save us,"
Then, how do you "Define" The Following? As "works of UNrighteousness"?

Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According TO
HIS MERCY HE Saved
us, By The Washing Of Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost;

Now we Quite a dilemma, eh? IF The FREE Gift Is God's OPERATION, Then
how is it man "ADDS his works" TO What God Has Already Accomplished?

Shouldn't we "start Over Again, from Square One"?
God's Simple Will

Be Blessed!
 

GRACE ambassador

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OK, so we are saved FOR good works, I believe that. So if you find a Christian man or woman that refuses to do any good works for his church, and for Jesus, would that not be a sign that he or she is not saved?
Precious friend, Yes, we should do good works, judging Only ourSELVES, NOT
"others." We are NOT "called to judge others," but to preach The Gospel Of
GRACE, JESUS CHRIST, According To The Revelation Of The Mystery!

Thus, we plant/water The Precious Seeds Of HIS Word, But "God Gives
The Increase!" (1Co_3 : 7-15 KJB!) HE ALONE "Knows the heart,"

whether or not we "see ANY signs," Correct?

"...we walk BY faith, NOT by sight..." (2Co_5 : 7 KJB!)

Be Blessed!
 

Curtis

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Precious friend, nor do Most have the same about
GRACE Through faith For God's FREE Gift Of Eternal Life! Amen?

So, specifically, IF ONLY "the works of the law of Moses" DO NOT "save us,"
Then, how do you "Define" The Following? As "works of UNrighteousness"?

Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According TO
HIS MERCY HE Saved
us, By The Washing Of Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost;

Now we Quite a dilemma, eh? IF The FREE Gift Is God's OPERATION, Then
how is it man "ADDS his works" TO What God Has Already Accomplished?

Shouldn't we "start Over Again, from Square One"?
God's Simple Will

Be Blessed!

Nice job of quoting a small part of what I wrote, then using the infamous straw man argument against it.

I said it clearly and used scripture to back it up.

Paul always argues specifically against having to keep the law of Moses as believers, because it was a huge continuing controversy in the early church, since many Jews who believed in Jesus insisted the law of Moses still had to be kept. That’s why the apostles all came together in Acts 15, to discuss what to do about all those who said even gentiles had to be circumcised, and obey the law of Moses.
Thus as I said, anytime Paul mentions works, he always specifically means works of the law of Moses - the specific body of law with 613 parts to obey.
Since the law itself said it was their RIGHTEOUSNESS if they obeyed everything in the law, then when Paul says we are not saved by works of righteousness, that’s still referencing works of righteousness from the law of Moses - to whit:

Deu 6:24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

Deu 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Therefore there is no contradiction between Paul writing that Abraham was justified APART from works (of the law of Moses), and James writing that Abraham WAS JUSTIFIED by works as are ALL MEN, per the citation I gave in my post that you have so disingenuously responded to.

There are works of obedience that we are to do, which are not part of the works of the law of Moses, when all the scriptures are considered, not just the scriptures we like.

James said God expects us to take care of widows and orphans, as one example of works we are to do as believers.

Peter wrote we have to MAKE or calling and ELECTION sure, by adding to our faith the fruit he lists, in order that we will never fall, and make it into heaven, in 2 Peter 1:5-11.

Jesus confirms that in John 15, where we find He is the Vine, we are his branches, and we must bear fruit, or we will be cut off as a dead branch, and end up in the fire.

Those are works of obedience.
 

GRACE ambassador

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Nice job of quoting a small part of what I wrote, then using the infamous straw man argument against it.
Wow, you are very welcome! I am saved By GRACE Through faith, having
received God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life! NOT
by works of the law, works of
righteousness, works of obedience, OR ANY OTHER "works" (Romans 11 : 6 KJB!)
Get it?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!:

I WORK to "earn REWARDS" When I get there! (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!)

Must be time to go, eh? (Romans 16 : 17 KJB!) I will pray for you...
 
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robert derrick

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Two verses are unrelated when they reside in passages that have different subjects in view. Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, helps the reader follow his arguments, introducing them with rhetorical questions.

Romans 3:20
This verse resides in a discussion of the advantages of living under the law. He opens this discussion with a question, "What advantage has the Jew?" Paul will argue that while there are advantages to being a Jew, living under the law, he and his objectors disagree that living as a Jew gives them the advantage with regard to God's favor, specifically justification. The main advantage of being a Jew, under the law, is the fact that his people have access to the oracles. And do these oracles contain proclamations declaring the righteousness of the Jewish people? No, in fact, just the opposite. In other words, living under the law did not give the Jews an advantage with respect to righteousness. These people proved themselves to be sinners just like the rest of us. These oracles condemn all people, including the Jewish people of sin. Thus Paul has proven his thesis statement that every human being falls short of God's glory and if human beings hope to be saved from that condition, there needs to be another way. Chapter four opens with a discussion of the "new way."

Romans 7:7
This verse resides in a discussion concerning the reliability of the law itself. In fact, this verse is the opening question, "Is the law itself sin?" He will consider the fact that the Law, in a sense, lead to his death. (condemned him to die) and the question is whether this would be considered manslaughter. (an unintentional death.) Is the law itself responsible for evil? Paul will argue that the law was not the perpetrator of his death; sin was. Paul was already dead when the law came along to show him his condition. The law is not evil, the law is good because it helps us see ourselves for who we really are.

Suppose I claim the ability to lift 100 pounds. The claim remains theoretical until someone asks me to prove it. Only when I make the attempt is the issue resolved either way. The challenge is good, because the act of lifting the weight will demonstrate whether my claim is true or not.

Suppose I claim to be a righteous man and good man. The claim remains theoretical until a law asks me to prove it. The Jewish law, for instance, defines righteousness in terms of practices and intent, and it commands the Jew to keep those practices and have the right inwardness. The Law is good because until anyone actually lives according to a righteous code such as the Jewish law, his claim to be righteous man is theoretical.

Jesus told the crowd that their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. What did he mean? I said earlier that the Law not only defines righteousness in terms of practice, it also defines righteousness in terms of having the proper inwardness. And this was the missing piece the Pharisees ignored. Jesus was critical of the Pharisees because although orthopraxy was not a problem for them, orthodoxy was. In short, they were doing all the right things but for the wrong reason. They lived the correct praxis, but without contrition, humility, honesty, or faith.

In his argument which begins in 7:7, Paul makes the point that as long as he based his justification on his praxis, he was "alive" with respect to justification; but when he considered coveting, which is not praxis but inwardness, he found that he was "dead" with respect to justification. Coveting is not praxis. That is, coveting takes place in the mind and the heart, not in public where all can see. Paul's warning and exhortation is to those who rely on orthopraxy as the means to God's favor. Paul warns them that the Law not only dictates practice (works) it also dictates inwardness.
(wow, these posts are long.)
Good review of Romans 3, right down the line as written. Jews had the advantage of having the oracles of God, but they proved themselves unworthy of them by violating them every chance they had to do so. And when they did actually obey them, it was outwardly only.

And in Romans 7, you likewise point out that someone can think themselves justified by works, but are continually reminded they are guilty in spirit.

Which applies directly to the main difference between good works and works of the law: Good works are done to help others, but they are only good to God when done by faith from the heart: "though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

Works of the law however have nothing to do with inward faith, because the law doesn't judge the heart nor even cares whether someone believes, agrees, or even likes it: just do it and don't transgress.

While God called upon His faithful believers who obeyed the law outwardly, to be circumcised of the heart and not just of the flesh, it was not law He was preaching, but faith.

The law of Christ, the law of the Spirit of life begins with the heart, and so makes us free from the law of sin and death, which only addresses outward deeds done in the body.

And there we have it: the difference between good works and works of the law is that good works with God require inward faith, while the law only requires outward obedience.

No man can be judged of transgressing the law of works while yet keeping the law outwardly, but all mankind is judged by God of transgressing the law of the Spirit by inward corruption of the heart, which all mankind is by nature born into after the transgression of Adam.

"How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?" (Job 25)

All are sinners before God, whether doing 'good works' or keeping the works of the law, so long as they continue in sin of heart and soul and spirit. An inward work of God's own Spirit bringing believers under, or into, the law of the Spirit through faith is required for true justification with God: to be truly seen as righteous before God, and doing His righteousness by faith from the heart:

"But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption... And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." (Acts 13)

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight... Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Rom 3)

Therefore, no man can fulfill the righteousness of the law by outward works only, but by the inward work of the Spirit we can fulfill the righteousness of God with good works of faith, which likewise do not transgress the outward demands of the law.

The law of sin and death is the law of works only. The law of the Spirit of Life is the law of God's work inwardly.

Therefore, we are justified freely by His grace, because our inward man is born again by His Spirit, and sin no longer reigns in our hearts, therefore we are once again righteous in God's sight, Who sees not the outward appearance only according to the law of works, but judges the very thoughts and intents of the heart according to the law of the Spirit.

The law of works is the law of the flesh, the law that looks only at the works of the flesh to justify or condemn, but the law of the Spirit is the law of God, the law that looks first at the heart to either justify or condemn. And only through the faith of Jesus in the heart can any man be justified inwardly with that law, even if they fulfill the outward demands of the other.
 
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robert derrick

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The key to the whole debate about 'good works' vs 'works of the law' is faith.

I would rephrase it as 'works of faith' vs 'works of the law'. And it is impossible for works of faith to be works of the law and visa versa.

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight...Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law." (Rom 3, Gal 2)

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works...Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect."
(James 2)

Works of the law, whereby there is no justification, are absolutely separate and different from the works of faith, whereby there is justification. One is justified before God, the other is not.

Works of the law are outward works only, while works of faith begin inwardly. Therefore the difference between the 2 works is that of nature. The one is different in nature from the other. The one is fulfilled by outward obedience only, but the other is only fulfilled by inward Spirit.

Works of faith have two things: faith in the heart and works of the body. The works of the law have works of the body only. So even if the works are the same in practise, they are by no means the same in nature.

The law of the Spirit begins in the heart and is made perfect, or is finished in the deed. The law of works cares only for the deed.

The works of the law of the flesh include the good works of the body; however, that law judges no man after the heart. The works of the law of the Spirit are good works by nature, because His law judges every man in the heart.

Even if we fulfil the "royal law" of Scripture to love our neighbor as ourselves, we do well,(James 2:8), but we are still not justified in God's sight.

1. Without the faith of Jesus in the heart, we do well to do 'good works' with our neighbors, yet are not justified by such works of the law, even the that of the royal law.

Therefore, good works without faith are indeed the same as works of the law, which requires no faith. The commandment to believe is not a work of the law, which cares nothing for faith, but is the 1st commandment of the Spirit, Who cares nothing for works without faith.

2. Without the faith of Jesus in the heart, we have no love of God shed abroad therein, and so our good works may not be so good afterall. Without the love of God in our hearts, we cannot possibly love God according to the first great commandment. Therefore, what kind of love do we have for ourselves and so love our neighbors likewise to fulfill the second great commandment?

"Though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." (1 Cor 13)

Some count burning themselves to death by explosion to be love, and do so likewise to their neighbors.

Therefore, the law of works is good and holy in that it defines the deeds of doing good and holy things, but the law of the Spirit works goodness and holiness in the heart, so that we have power of God as sons to be good and holy in deed and in truth (1 John 3), not just in word and tongue, nor even in good and holy deeds done outwardly only.

"And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God."

(Edited this out...Abraham had many great acts of faith...obedience to God to sacrifice his only son is one of the greatest acts of obedience and faith...imho)
 
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robert derrick

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Precious friend, nor do Most have the same about
GRACE Through faith For God's FREE Gift Of Eternal Life! Amen?

So, specifically, IF ONLY "the works of the law of Moses" DO NOT "save us,"
Then, how do you "Define" The Following? As "works of UNrighteousness"?

Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But According TO
HIS MERCY HE Saved
us, By The Washing Of Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost;

Now we Quite a dilemma, eh? IF The FREE Gift Is God's OPERATION, Then
how is it man "ADDS his works" TO What God Has Already Accomplished?

Shouldn't we "start Over Again, from Square One"?
God's Simple Will

Be Blessed!
"IF The FREE Gift Is God's OPERATION, Then how is it man "ADDS his works" TO What God Has Already Accomplished?"

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Was not Abraham our father justified by works." (James 2)
 
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robert derrick

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Wow, you are very welcome! I am saved By GRACE Through faith, having
received God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life! NOT
by works of the law, works of
righteousness, works of obedience, OR ANY OTHER "works" (Romans 11 : 6 KJB!)
Get it?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!:

I WORK to "earn REWARDS" When I get there! (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!)

Must be time to go, eh? (Romans 16 : 17 KJB!) I will pray for you...

I am saved By GRACE Through faith, having received God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life! NOT by works of the law, works of righteousness, works of obedience, OR ANY OTHER "works"

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
" (Eph 2)

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 6)

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." (Rom 3)

The gift of God is neither grace nor salvation nor justification, but is faith and eternal life that is of God. And so we are saved and justified by grace (Rom 3) through the free gift of Jesus' faith and eternal life. (Rom 6)

But, without the works of faith we are not justified. Faith and works therefore work together to justify us and perfect us with God.

Working faith, faith that works, faith with works saves and justifies us by grace.

"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" (James 2:22)

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Rom 2)

We must be hearers and doers, not hearers or 'believers' only. Those who believe the perfect law of liberty by faith must continue therein to do it and so be blessed and justified in his deed. (James 1)

The gift of faith and eternal life is given to us freely by grace to do something good with it and live by it, not to bury it in a napkin in the earth, for if we live earthy, we are earthy and not heavenly, no matter how much faith we proclaim and believe in ourselves to be:

"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly." (1 Cor 15)
 

robert derrick

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Wow, you are very welcome! I am saved By GRACE Through faith, having
received God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life! NOT
by works of the law, works of
righteousness, works of obedience, OR ANY OTHER "works" (Romans 11 : 6 KJB!)
Get it?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!:

I WORK to "earn REWARDS" When I get there! (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!)

Must be time to go, eh? (Romans 16 : 17 KJB!) I will pray for you...
"I WORK to "earn REWARDS""

In the grace and service of God we don't earn anything. The closest thing to earning in Scripture is the earnest of the Spirit. The earnestness of desire for God and His work of faith.

We receive a reward as we do faith: it is a gift. A gift for abiding work, and work of faith willingly done.

We work, because the gift we receive is supposed to work in us and through us. We work, because if we don't we die.

Faith without works is dead. (James 2)

We work with God Himself Who is our exceeding great reward on earth (Gen 15), and our great reward in heaven is for persecution.

So what other reward do we work for? We work with faith in all things, because the love and fellowship of Christ in us is our reward and hope of glory...
 

robert derrick

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There is no difference between good works and the works of the law. If the law is good, then the works of the law are good.

And the law of Christ is good and the greatest commandments are in the law of Christ. It is called the Royal Law:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well." (James 2)

The works of the law of Christ are good works.

The real difference is between works of faith and good works of man. To actually fulfill the royal law and please God requires we do good by faith in God. Even good works, if done without faith, are dead works. Sinners can do good, even love their neighbor as themselves, but they are not justified with God, except they do so with faith of Jesus.

It is not the good works in themselves that God is looking for, so much as His faith in the heart to do them.

And the dispute about justification by faith vs justification by works of the law is also misplaced. We are justified by both working together within us and through us.

Paul was only rebuking justification by works of law only, without faith of God inwardly, and James was rebuking faith only, without works of God outwardly.
 

robert derrick

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There are two ways for works of the Law to be unjustified and unacceptable to the the Lord:

1. They are done without faith and charity, but only by outward obedience as by law.

2. They are works of men's commandments, not Law of Christ, and so done by a false faith.

Only the works of faith in the law of Christ done by the faith of Jesus from the heart are justified by God, even as Abraham was imputed righteousness for believing God, and justified by doing it.

Every other work, whether without faith or by deceived faith, are vain and unjustified with God.
 

Daniel Veler

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Read the following and ask God for understanding:
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham”
 

Gregory

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There is no difference between good works and the works of the law. If the law is good, then the works of the law are good.

And the law of Christ is good and the greatest commandments are in the law of Christ. It is called the Royal Law:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well." (James 2)

The works of the law of Christ are good works.

The real difference is between works of faith and good works of man. To actually fulfill the royal law and please God requires we do good by faith in God. Even good works, if done without faith, are dead works. Sinners can do good, even love their neighbor as themselves, but they are not justified with God, except they do so with faith of Jesus.

It is not the good works in themselves that God is looking for, so much as His faith in the heart to do them.

And the dispute about justification by faith vs justification by works of the law is also misplaced. We are justified by both working together within us and through us.

Paul was only rebuking justification by works of law only, without faith of God inwardly, and James was rebuking faith only, without works of God outwardly.

Galations 6:2 gives a little peek of what the Law of Christ is. As stated, the centerpiece of the Law of Christ is faith and good works.
 

Gregory

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Wow, you are very welcome! I am saved By GRACE Through faith, having
received God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Life! NOT
by works of the law, works of
righteousness, works of obedience, OR ANY OTHER "works" (Romans 11 : 6 KJB!)
Get it?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!:

I WORK to "earn REWARDS" When I get there! (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!)

Must be time to go, eh? (Romans 16 : 17 KJB!) I will pray for you...

Are you therefore determined not to do good works in your Christian life?
 

robert derrick

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Galations 6:2 gives a little peek of what the Law of Christ is. As stated, the centerpiece of the Law of Christ is faith and good works.
Yes, because the law of Moses with the Old Covenant was weak thru the flesh of men called upon to obey it.

In the end they only obeyed outwardly, while remaining corrupt inwardly.

But with the Law of Christ in the New Covenant, the faith and Spirit of Christ is born within the heart, so that the royal law is believed from the heart first, and then works to do the righteousness of God outwardly.
 

robert derrick

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Read the following and ask God for understanding:
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham”
1. It proves the body of Christ is the Israel of God, with the old nation put away, even as the Old Covenant.
The Abraham's seed of promise is one only, not seeds. 1st the national Israel, Jews after the flesh, and now the holy nation and body of Christ, Jews inwardly by the Spirit.

If the natural Jews were still a seed of Abraham by promise, then there would be 'seeds'. There are not. the One seed first with the Jews, and now that one seed with them that believe Jesus, Jew or Greek.

Christians are the promised seed of Abraham, and there is only one. Likewise Christians are the promised children of Abraham, even as Isaac. (Gal 4)

2. The promise of God to Abraham was not annulled by the law of Moses. It is confirmed in Christ (Rom 15) with the law of Christ.

The law of Moses of carnal commandment pertaining to the flesh, such as circumcision, did not stop God fulfilling His promise to Abraham by His Spirit, through His Son.

Therefore, the law of Moses does not prevent the children of faith and seed of Abraham from being the chosen people of God named by Israel.

3. The promise of God is however made of none affect and annulled to them who keep not His promise by faith, and so the unbelieving Jews are cut off, as shall we, if we fall by same example of unbelief. (1 Cor 10) (Rom 11)

(God did not cast off Israel. The unbelievers fell away from the tree by their own dead weight of disobedience. As shall we from the true Vine, if we disobey and crucify the Son of God afresh (Heb 6))
 

robert derrick

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Are you therefore determined not to do good works in your Christian life?
Good question.

I think it's sort of like, yes, I will, but I won't be doing it to be justified, only because I want to for Jesus.

Which actually is how it works.

Good works are only as good as the faith and the law they keep.