Good Works Vs Works Of The Law

[Hidden In Him]

I'd like to put this up for debate, because I noticed something interesting about the following passage of scripture in Ephesians just this morning. I have always understood the phraseology used by Paul that "we are not saved by works" to refer specifically to not being saved by observing the works of the law, such as observing circumcision and Jewish unclean food laws.

Well if you look at the passage in context this seems to confirm it, because he immediately follows the phrase stating we are "not saved by works [of the law]" by adding that we are "created unto good works."

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

After noticing this, I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish ceremonial law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

I invite friendly debate.
Hidden In Him.

 

[mailmandan]

When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good works" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

Elsewhere, in Titus 3:5, Paul states that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul states that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works..

So it is not merely observing the works of the law that does not save us, but works in general. We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are saved by faith and works.

 

[Philip James]

But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'

I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

A contrite and humble heart is the beginning of righteousness...

Peace be with you!

 

[GracePeace]

edit

 

[GracePeace]

After noticing this, I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

This is the view held by the preeminent Pauline scholar, NT Wright, and it has a problem : "works of Law" includes universal moral injunctions and prohibitions like "do not covet" Romans 3:19-20 Romans 7:7.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good works" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

This is a good solid response.

But now, let me ask you from the perspective of what was retained in Christianity and what has not: The laws regarding things like circumcision were clearly no longer binding upon Christians, whereas everything falling under the greatest two commandments was. Paul used the qualifier good works regarding what we are called to, whereas there is no such qualifier in our text regarding works like circumcision, or ordinances such as the Gentiles not being allowed into the Inner Court of the temple. The Jewish temple was no longer the temple of God, so the entire set of ordinances related to it no longer applied where Christians were concerned, and thus keeping such ordinances in our text would not have been "good" in any sense, and not what were created in Christ Jesus for.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

The problem with taking the passage as referring to the same exact thing throughout for me is that it creates an unnatural reading. If he was not making a distinction between good works and works of the Law like circumcision, you have him saying the phrases "[we are] not saved by works" and then "[we were] created for good works" in rapid succession without delineating them as you did in your post. If one phrase is talking about one type of work and the other about a different type of work, you have a natural reading. But if he is talking about the same exact thing in both you have this strange opposition of the phrases against each other with no qualifying remarks explaining how the two principles relate. Circumcision is defined by Paul elsewhere as a work of the law no longer binding upon Christians, so clearly we were created in Christ Jesus for one type of works but not the other. As Paul says in Romans, both Christians Jews and Gentiles were called to be spiritual lights to those in darkness, yet no longer called to be circumcised, so in the following text he tis making a distinction between the two types of works again. Thus, there is clearly a distinction made within Christianity regarding two, one which we must still keep and one we are no longer bound to keep.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

 

[GracePeace]

This is a good solid response.

But now, let me ask you from the perspective of what was retained in Christianity and what has not: The laws regarding things like circumcision were clearly no longer binding upon Christians, whereas everything falling under the greatest two commandments was. Paul used the qualifier good works regarding what we are called to, whereas there is no such qualifier in our text regarding works like circumcision, or ordinances such as the Gentiles not being allowed into the Inner Court of the temple. The Jewish temple was no longer the temple of God, so the entire set of ordinances related to it no longer applied where Christians were concerned, and thus keeping such ordinances in our text would not have been "good" in any sense, and not what were created in Christ Jesus for.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

The problem with taking the passage as referring to the same exact thing throughout for me is that it creates an unnatural reading. If he was not making a distinction between good works and works of the Law like circumcision, you have him saying the phrases "[we are] not saved by works" and then "[we were] created for good works" in rapid succession without delineating them as you did in your post. If one phrase is talking about one type of work and the other about a different type of work, you have a natural reading. But if he is talking about the same exact thing in both you have this strange opposition of the phrases against each other with no qualifying remarks explaining how the two principles relate. Circumcision is defined by Paul elsewhere as a work of the law no longer binding upon Christians, so clearly we were created in Christ Jesus for one type of works but not the other. As Paul says in Romans, both Christians Jews and Gentiles were called to be spiritual lights to those in darkness, yet no longer called to be circumcised, so in the following text he tis making a distinction between the two types of works again. Thus, there is clearly a distinction made within Christianity regarding two, one which we must still keep and one we are no longer bound to keep.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

To put it another way, "works of Law" might be what are produced by someone alive to Law and dead to God Galatians 5:4 whereas "good works" would be produced by someone dead to Law alive to God Galatians 2:19. The issue is not the aim (which is agreed upon--righteousness) but the method--Law/flesh (resulting in dread/fear Romans 8:15) Romans 8:3 Galatians 3:1-5 versus Grace/Spirit (resulting in hope Romans 5:2-5 Galatians 5:5) Jeremiah 23:6 1 Corinthians 15:10. The issue is who produces the works. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil doesn't necessarily contain inaccurate information (except it is skewed and accuses God - - has the wrong spirit about it) , yet it always results in death... simply because it's not the Tree of Life. Life seemingly is God's graciousness. Life from a gracious God first, good works after--not Good works to placate an angry God, then Life.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Recall that the effect of being under Law is slavery Galatians 4:20+... This becomes complicated by the fact that when Paul turns people away from the false Gospel Galatians 1:6-9 Galatians 3:1-5 Galatians 5:8, which places people "under Law", Galatians 4:20-21 Galatians 5:13 he turns them not only to the faithfulness of Christ Galatians 2:13, but also to good works that proceed from love and faith (so, what Paul is anxious about Galatians 4:20 is the mind being moved away from Christ over to the difficult complicated calculations of a Book 2 Corinthians 11:3 to which he has "died" Galatians 2:19) Galatians 5:5-14--realizing that Galatians is actually a treatment of "how to be perfected" (how to go from carnal to spiritual), not of "how to begin" (how to go from unsaved to saved) Galatians 3:1-5, the use of the phrase "justified" to describe this is illuminating

Let me just set Calvinism aside and deal with Galatians in light of my argument given in Post #6.

Again you have works of the law no longer binding upon Christians being juxtaposed against works that are. They were observing days and months and years (i.e. Jewish holy days) as referenced in Galatians 4:10-11, which he taught as being unnecessary and would bring them back under bondage, and thus were not binding upon them. Yet he clearly emphasized the keeping of good works from Galatians 5:22 on, and even goes so far as to say that Christians will reap what they sow:

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. (Galatians 6:7-10).

If through such good works they would reap eternal life if they sowed them, this necessitates he was saying they would not reap eternal life if they did not. So again we have a clear distinction between two different types of works: One binding upon Christians and relevant to eternal life if they do or do not keep them, and the other utterly unnecessary, and which would only bring them under bondage to the mere "grade school" principles as pertains to the things of this world.

 

[Daniel Veler]

There are three types of works. We have the works of righteousness, works of unrighteousness, and unprofitable works. The works of righteousness is accomplished by LOVE. The unrighteous works are accomplished by hate and greed. The unprofitable works are works that we do that don’t profitable to our Father. Unprofitable works will be anything we do that does not promote the gospel of our Savior.

Some teach that the fire is the second Baptist. Those that teach this say talking in tongues is being baptized with fire. This just isn’t true.


As it is written:


1 Corinthians 3:13

“Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”


John the Baptist said that Christ would Baptist us with the Spirit and Fire. We can understand the Holy Spirit part. Now we know the purpose of the fire.


Matthew 3:11

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”


Matthew 3:11

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”


The Holy Spirit is what we receive at our conversion. The fire is to purify us from our unprofitable works.

The purpose of the fire is meant to purify us from our unprofitable works, that we have committed, and we will be rewarded for the profitable ones.

This is the baptism of Fire.

 

[GracePeace]

If through such good works they would reap eternal life if they sowed them, this necessitates he was saying they would not reap eternal life if they did not. So again we have a clear distinction between two different types of works: One binding upon Christians and relevant to eternal life if they do or do not keep them, and the other utterly unnecessary, and which would only bring them under bondage to the mere "grade school" principles as pertains to the things of this world.

1. This issue of "bondage" Galatians 5:1 is important--but it is not as though the Law is the only route to bondage (sin is slavery). I think it's possible to be in an equivalent state to "under Law", fearful in service (eg, Matthew 25:26), even without the Law. Hebrews mentions "shrinking back" which sounds like "fear". It's what Adam did after he sinned. The antidote is Grace which is a repudiation of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil which the Jews acknowledge is what the Torah represents.
2. Problem with trying to parse "works of Law" and "good works" this way (one results in eternal life, one doesn't) is there is a lot of overlap in the works (within "good works", for instance, "no covetous man has any inheritance in God's Kingdom" and Paul even has Timothy circumcised).

 

[GracePeace]

would only bring them under bondage to the mere "grade school" principles as pertains to the things of this world.

Which goes back to Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and flesh versus Tree of Life and Spirit. Who produces it is the question.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Let's go straight to the master for this:
7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ ” Luke 17:7-10
Seems to me that the Lord is saying here that we were created to follow His commandments, to do what is right, and doing what is required of you is not meritorious. In other words, we should do good because we were created to do good and failure to do so is failure to meet the purpose for which we were created. I'm pretty sure that this is where the idea comes from for sins of "omission."
We shouldn't feed the notion that performing the ordinances of the law and obeying the prohibitions was in some way meritorious. Doing what is required of you is never meritorious.
We also tend to think of our sacrifices as meritorious, but what can you give God that He hasn't already given you except thanks and praise?

 

[GracePeace]

Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are saved by faith and works.

Oops! James 2:14-31 does Galatians 6:6-10 does Matthew 22:11-13 and Revelation 19:7-8 does LOL

 

[GracePeace]

I'd like to put this up for debate, because I noticed something interesting about the following passage of scripture in Ephesians just this morning. I have always understood the phraseology used by Paul that "we are not saved by works" to refer specifically to not being saved by observing the works of the law, such as observing circumcision and Jewish unclean food laws.

Well if you look at the passage in context this seems to confirm it, because he immediately follows the phrase stating we are "not saved by works [of the law]" by adding that we are "created unto good works."

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

After noticing this, I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

I invite friendly debate.
Hidden In Him.

I have already been edified by the discussion. Thanks for posting it.

 

[GracePeace]

Again you have works of the law no longer binding upon Christians being juxtaposed against works that are. They were observing days and months and years (i.e. Jewish holy days) as referenced in Galatians 4:10-11, which he taught as being unnecessary and would bring them back under bondage, and thus were not binding upon them. Yet he clearly emphasized the keeping of good works from Galatians 5:22 on, and even goes so far as to say that Christians will reap what they sow:

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. (Galatians 6:7-10).

The Law was never binding on anyone but Jews Romans 2:12 Romans 2:14---Jews are released from their obligation to serve by Law when they die Romans 7:1-6 and Talmud Niddah 61b. Gentiles ought never have been brought under Law at all after having been saved--it was a false Gospel.

 

[GracePeace]

Awareness of God's graciousness versus ignorance of God's graciousness I think is what may make the difference between "works of Law" and "serve one another by faith working through love" . LOL

 

[GracePeace]

Let's go straight to the master for this:
7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ ” Luke 17:7-10
Seems to me that the Lord is saying here that we were created to follow His commandments, to do what is right, and doing what is required of you is not meritorious. In other words, we should do good because we were created to do good and failure to do so is failure to meet the purpose for which we were created. I'm pretty sure that this is where the idea comes from for sins of "omission."
We shouldn't feed the notion that performing the ordinances of the law and obeying the prohibitions was in some way meritorious. Doing what is required of you is never meritorious.
We also tend to think of our sacrifices as meritorious, but what can you give God that He hasn't already given you except thanks and praise?

The problem is saying these things doesn't help people struggling with reading verses that teach eternal life is a repayment for good deeds Romans 2:6-7 Galatians 6:6-10 Revelation 19:7-8+Matthew 22:11-13

 

[kcnalp]

A contrite and humble heart is the beginning of righteousness...

Amen!

 

[Enoch111]

the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish law, since they have no effect on things.

The "works of the Law" would be primarily the ceremonial observances such as circumcision, ceremonial cleansings and washings, etc. Tithing as practiced by the Pharisees would be included.

But any law which would pertain to justice and mercy would not be included. Neither would obedience to the Ten Commandments.

Paul was trying to get Jews to see that justification (salvation) is solely by grace through faith apart from any works, whether works of the law or even charitable deeds (good works). At the same time he made it clear that those who were saved by grace were bound to do good works (as a result of salvation).

Therefore he went all the way back to Abraham (when he was Abram). Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness. So we cannot avoid the matter of imputed righteousness when discussing the basis of salvation. Unfortunately, there is too much misunderstanding about imputed righteousness.

 

[kcnalp]

Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.