Good Works Vs Works Of The Law

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robert derrick

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"Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 subsume "do not covet" under "works of Law", so, no, "works of Law" isn't "religious rituals"."

'Do not covet' is not a work of the law but a work of the flesh forbidden by the law. 'Be circumcised' is a work of the law to do.

Romans 3: how the Jews had 1st advantage by knowing and submitting to the Law of Moses, and were 'under the law', to whom the law spoke expressly and directly.
Such law had 'deeds' as being circumcised (3:1).

They thought themselves justified before God because of doing such deeds, and yet even as the Gentiles they were still judged as under sin (vs 9), and not justified before God. Therefore doing the deeds of the law of Moses, only led to not doing the true righteousness of God found in mercy and judgment. (Matthew 23:23)

Rom 7: There is no mention of the works and deeds of the law, which is now the law of Christ for the body of Christ, and no longer that of Moses. This law only exposes sin for what it is, whether adultery or covetousness. Do not covet is not a work to do demanded by the law, but a work of the flesh not to do.

The works of the law of God in demand to perform was only with that of Moses, and is no more in the law of Christ.

We are dead and delivered from that law of sin and death, because that law is written in our hearts, that by the divine nature we no longer covet to transgress it, even as Christ, who's members we are. We have no need of the law written down and read daily in order to know what is evil and good. We now know what is sin by nature, and by faith we have no dealings in such works of the flesh, but rather seek to produce the fruit of the Spirit in doing good our neighbors and our own.
 
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robert derrick

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Name one work of the Law of Christ that we are to do as Christians by law in detail, that is written in the Scripture of the New Covenant.

I.e. what works of the law of Christ are we supposed to be doing in service to God?
 

robert derrick

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The works of the faith of Jesus are not works of the law of Christ.

Works of faith are from the heart born of God, against which there is no law.

Prayer, Baptism, study of the Word, the Lord's supper, gathering together in one place, doing good to one another and loving our neighbors as ourselves are all done by faith, not by law. They are to be done decently and in order, and at such a time as appropriate and of a free and voluntary will, not of necessity of law (2 Cor 9:7). They are all voluntary, not practiced as a matter of law on pains of punishment, if not done.

If we do not such things at all, it is not a transgression of law of Christ, because there is no law written to do so, but it is by absence of faith in Jesus. Faith is dead. (James 2)

If we transgress the Law of Christ, we are dead. It we do not the works of faith, our faith is dead, though we do not transgress in any particular point of Law. Avoiding the works of the flesh in transgression of the Law of Christ is not sufficient therefore of justification with God. That is only by faith of Jesus, and such faith will naturally and freely produce the good works, that the law has nothing to do with, because against which there is no law.

There is no work of the law of Christ, because there is no law demanding such work to do.
 

GRACE ambassador

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Precious friend(s), So, simply summed up:
Don't do the fleshly "letter of the OLD law," Disallowing BOASTING!

But, Do do the "New spiritual Law of faith," beginning AND
ending In The "Spirit Of Life!" "...faith which worketh By Love!..."
(Romans 3 : 27; Galatians 3 : 3, 5 : 6; Ephesians 3 : 17 KJB!),
"To The Praise And The Glory Of HIS GRACE!"
Correct?
---------------------------------------------
Is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

(1) God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (
1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

"GRACE Through faith" {BOASTING} In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:


All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY
of sin!}
Justification First, And, THEN:


(2) The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL PAYMENT For the above PENALTY
of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!"
Amen?:

We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification:

(2a) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (
Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

(2b) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (
2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

Eternal Results:
reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:


(3) CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE
of sin!}
Amen?

----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between God's Relationship And our fellowship!
Correct?

Precious friend(s): Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
 

GracePeace

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Precious friend(s), So, simply summed up:
Don't do the fleshly "letter of the OLD law," Disallowing BOASTING!

But, Do do the "New spiritual Law of faith," beginning AND
ending In The "Spirit Of Life!" "...faith which worketh By Love!..."
(Romans 3 : 27; Galatians 3 : 3, 5 : 6; Ephesians 3 : 17 KJB!),
"To The Praise And The Glory Of HIS GRACE!"
Correct?
---------------------------------------------
Is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

(1) God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (
1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

"GRACE Through faith" {BOASTING} In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:


All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY
of sin!}
Justification First, And, THEN:


(2) The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL PAYMENT For the above PENALTY
of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!"
Amen?:

We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification:

(2a) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (
Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

(2b) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (
2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

Eternal Results:
reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:


(3) CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE
of sin!}
Amen?

----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between God's Relationship And our fellowship!
Correct?

Precious friend(s): Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
Wait, isn't "love your neighbor as yourself" a commandment from "the letter of that OLD Law" that you're saying we're not supposed to follow?
Yeah it's Leviticus 19:18.
 

GRACE ambassador

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Prayer, Baptism, study of the Word, the Lord's supper, gathering together in one place, doing good to one another and loving our neighbors as ourselves are all done by faith, not by law.
Precious friend, water baptism? Or: ONE Baptism "BY" The ONE Spirit Into
The ONE Body Of CHRIST {Ephesians 4 : 5; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13 KJB!)?

Fleshly WATER baptism, from the OT {Ceremonial} law? Or:

The New Law Of faith, with
Only ONE {Spiritual} BAPTISM,
God's OPERATION, Under GRACE and "faith By Love"?

or BOTH? TWO baptismS???

13 Bible baptisms

Be Blessed!
 

Gregory

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When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, we cannot dissect good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law). In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good works" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18)

Elsewhere, in Titus 3:5, Paul states that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul states that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works..

So it is not merely observing the works of the law that does not save us, but works in general. We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Nowhere does the Bible teach that we are saved by faith and works.
OK, so we are saved FOR good works, I believe that. So if you find a Christian man or woman that refuses to do any good works for his church, and for Jesus, would that not be a sign that he or she is not saved?
 

robert derrick

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"Wait, isn't "love your neighbor as yourself" a commandment from "the letter of that OLD Law" that you're saying we're not supposed to follow?"

The weightier matters of the law are the commandments of God. (Matthew 23:23)

Ok, we do the commandments of the law, and don't do the transgressions of the law, and freely do any works of religious practice by personal faith with Jesus, but don't do them as law, and especially don't preach them as law, because such works are no longer law God, and neither will they justify us.

We do the commandments of the law, because we are justified by faith, and we don't do any work as a law to be justified by Him.

If someone wants to refer to the commandments of the law as the good works of the law, then so be it. But there are no good works of religious practice that are by law of Christ, as there were in that of Moses.
 

robert derrick

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OK, so we are saved FOR good works, I believe that. So if you find a Christian man or woman that refuses to do any good works for his church, and for Jesus, would that not be a sign that he or she is not saved?
The absence of good work when power to do so is the absence of faith. (James 2)(1 John 3)

I would only question good works 'for the church'. That is more of a religious construct of man than any golden rule of Christ toward one another.

If anything it to be determined as matter of law, or as matter of present faith, then it must be written as so.

What 'church work' therefore is written for all believers to do?

I read giving freely for them that minister, that they might live of the ministry. I read helping such ministers along their way. I read collection for the poor saints (not the poor of the world), and care for widows that are widows in deed. I read loving our neighbor by doing good to them if in our power to do so. I read not forsaking our assembling...
 

robert derrick

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When we are saved, we live freely, not in transgression anymore, but in newness of life to provide for our own with thankfulness to God, and to help others as we would ourselves, when opportunity arises.

Against such there is no law. The bringing in of law with such only serves to confuse, divide, and destroy faith. It's the divide and conquering of antichrist. (Rev 6:1)

And even our good charity must be with soberness (1 Tim 2:15), that we not wear ourselves out in good works, because that also is a snare of the devil:

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws."
(Dan 7:25)
 
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robert derrick

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Precious friend, water baptism? Or: ONE Baptism "BY" The ONE Spirit Into
The ONE Body Of CHRIST {Ephesians 4 : 5; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13 KJB!)?

Fleshly WATER baptism, from the OT {Ceremonial} law? Or:

The New Law Of faith, with
Only ONE {Spiritual} BAPTISM,
God's OPERATION, Under GRACE and "faith By Love"?

or BOTH? TWO baptismS???

13 Bible baptisms

Be Blessed!
Them sent by Jesus to teach are also to baptize in the name of the Lord. Not by commandment nor law, but by request of the believer, even as with the Ethiopian and Phillip. (Acts 8)

Which also proves it is by water, and not just by the 'baptism' of teaching.

(Going down into the water and coming up out of the water only means they got wet in the water. It does not prove full immersion under the water. There was a guy in a war zone who got saved and really wanted to be baptized, and so a canteen had to do. It is not the deed itself, but the heart, which is why law brought in where no law is, is so destructive to faith. If not to common sense.)
 

CadyandZoe

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Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 subsume "do not covet" under "works of Law", so, no, "works of Law" isn't "religious rituals".
As I said, putting two unrelated verses together leads to a misunderstanding.
 

CadyandZoe

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"He rightly argues that God is not granting justification to anyone based on religious rituals and practices."

Even as they were not justifed by the works of the law of Moses, which was weak due to flesh: even them that obeyed remained carnal of mind.

The Pharisees of Jesus' day in the Jews' religion, as well as the 'holinessers' of today in the Christians' religion, were and are some of the most carnally minded people of all. They have so given themselves to outward carnal ordinances and rules, that it is all they think and care about pertaining to justification of God. Grace and love and mercy are but suspect expressions of them that do not obey said 'works' of their law.
Well said. I wonder if Paul meant something similar when he talked about the mind set on the flesh? When someone is keeping score based on "good behavior" is his or her mind set on the flesh? I wonder.
 

GracePeace

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As I said, putting two unrelated verses together leads to a misunderstanding.
Based on what are they "unrelated"? In Romans 3:20, he says "...by the works of the Law... comes the knowledge of sin" then in Romans 7:7 he says "I would not have known what it was to 'covet' lest the Law had said 'do not covet'"? This is literally "the works of the Law" bringing him "knowledge of sin"/"coveting"!
Secondarily, this turns what would have been a "sin" ("coveting") into a "transgression"--exactly what the Law came in to do Romans 5:20 (the Gentiles did't "sin like Adam" Romans 5:14, but "the Law came in to increase the transgression", in part, by bringing "knowledge of sin" ("transgression" can only be committed when a sin is done "with knowledge"--knowingly)).
 

GRACE ambassador

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It is not the deed itself, but the heart, which is why law brought in where no law is, is so destructive to faith. If not to common sense.)
Precious friend, my point Exactly! "Bringing in the commandment {OT law} of water,
and MISusing it, Under GRACE, IS Very Destructive to faith!" Just notice the
MANY denominations, all DIVIDED up, EACH teaching SOMETHING Different! ie:

If God Says water baptism IS FOR Today, Then, which of the following is
THE CORRECT application of it?:

1) believe AND be baptized
{i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

(2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

(3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

(4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

(5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in
their traditional assembly?

(6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion
washing away their original sin?

(7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

(8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody
that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

(9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is
UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

(10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever
traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

(11) Any other "Traditions"(?) I haven't heard of yet?
----------------------------------------------------
And, some leaders, who should "know better" are having a "terrible
problem" with their tradition of "immersion!" When they put
young/middle-aged women in their baptistry, how is that any Different
Than the world who has wet t-shirt contests at SINFUL liquor
establishments? Did Not God Say: "...be NOT conformed to the world"?
-----------------------------------
Or: Is, as has Already Been Pointed Out, God Only Has ONE Baptism
Today, "BY" The Holy Spirit, God's OPERATION! This IMMEDIATELY
Eliminates ALL of the above
traditions of men "bringing an OT ceremonial
ritual" Into God's Program Of PURE GRACE!!! Correct?

FULL "study" is here:
13 Bible baptisms

Be Blessed!
 

Curtis

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After noticing this, I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish ceremonial law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

Correct.

Most people have zero clue about works, or what the term means to Paul.


When Paul said we are saved by grace, via faith, not by works, he was specifically talking about works of the law of Moses.


Anytime in his epistles Paul mentions the law, it’s always about the body of law with its 613 regulations, called the law of Moses.


We’re not saved by works of the law of Moses, therefore we don’t have to eat kosher foods, sacrifice animals, or any of the other 611 rules that are in it.


People ignorantly think anything a believer must do is a work, then cite Ephesians 2:8-9 and claim there’s nothing at all a believer is required to do.


James on the other hand, talks about works, but not works of the law of Moses.


That there are two different kinds of works explains the apparent contradiction between Paul writing that Abraham was justified apart from works, and James writing that Abraham WAS justified by works, as are ALL MEN.


In fact works were part of Abraham’s justification and perfected his faith.


Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?


Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED and NOT by faith ONLY.


Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Above, it states that though Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness, his works of obedience in sacrificing his son Isaac (as a test, before God stopped him), was an integral part of his justification, and his works perfected his faith.


There are works of obedience we are to do, as believers, (apart from the law of Moses), as part of justification.


And we’re required to bear fruit, but that’s another topic.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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It's not about good works vs works of the Law.
The works of the OT Law do not cut it as to God after Jesus Christ came, the OT works were needed to bring Man to that point until Jesus Christ came and then under Christ Jesus who was and is the Alpha and the Omega ? right ! so then the OT had come to the point like an egg had hatched lets say, so it was all about the coming to this point, so the true worthy Israelites from this point became Christians in fact and because Jesus Christ is the King of Israel his servants are his body and they abide in him only, so it's not about ones own works now, because one can not cut it through ones own works at all, you need Grace and Grace abounds in Christ Jesus, the Law still stands but is under Grace now, so it's not the Letter of the Law.
The commandments are still in effect.
If anyone peddles the Letter of the Law they clearly have no Grace.
 

robert derrick

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It's not about good works vs works of the Law.
The works of the OT Law do not cut it as to God after Jesus Christ came, the OT works were needed to bring Man to that point until Jesus Christ came and then under Christ Jesus who was and is the Alpha and the Omega ? right ! so then the OT had come to the point like an egg had hatched lets say, so it was all about the coming to this point, so the true worthy Israelites from this point became Christians in fact and because Jesus Christ is the King of Israel his servants are his body and they abide in him only, so it's not about ones own works now, because one can not cut it through ones own works at all, you need Grace and Grace abounds in Christ Jesus, the Law still stands but is under Grace now, so it's not the Letter of the Law.
The commandments are still in effect.
If anyone peddles the Letter of the Law they clearly have no Grace.
"If anyone peddles the Letter of the Law they clearly have no Grace."

It's one thing to quote the law against sin. Drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God. It's another thing to peddle personal rules as law. Drinkers shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Law makers are letter of law peddlers, who make up laws to obey. Law abiders are keepers of the law, who eschew transgressions thereof.

I would say doing the works of the law to be justified thereby is far different from being keepers of the law being justified by faith.

So the distinction really comes down to doing works of the law vs being keepers of the law. I keep the law by not transgressing it, but beyond that I live by faith in all things that I do.

I don't do anything because a law tells me to, but I do it because the faith of Jesus desires me to. It's the difference between good will from the heart and fear of punishment. Godly sorrow is from failing to do good. Sorrow of the world is from getting caught doing evil.

The one leads to confession and repentance, the other only leads to anguish of soul. Esau found no place of repentance, because he did not confess from the heart his sin, but only railed about the punishment of the sin.

"Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears." (Heb 12)

He did not seek repentance from the sin, but sought the birthright though he had sinned it away...
 

CadyandZoe

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Based on what are they "unrelated"? In Romans 3:20, he says "...by the works of the Law... comes the knowledge of sin" then in Romans 7:7 he says "I would not have known what it was to 'covet' lest the Law had said 'do not covet'"? This is literally "the works of the Law" bringing him "knowledge of sin"/"coveting"!
Secondarily, this turns what would have been a "sin" ("coveting") into a "transgression"--exactly what the Law came in to do Romans 5:20 (the Gentiles did't "sin like Adam" Romans 5:14, but "the Law came in to increase the transgression", in part, by bringing "knowledge of sin" ("transgression" can only be committed when a sin is done "with knowledge"--knowingly)).

Two verses are unrelated when they reside in passages that have different subjects in view. Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, helps the reader follow his arguments, introducing them with rhetorical questions.

Romans 3:20
This verse resides in a discussion of the advantages of living under the law. He opens this discussion with a question, "What advantage has the Jew?" Paul will argue that while there are advantages to being a Jew, living under the law, he and his objectors disagree that living as a Jew gives them the advantage with regard to God's favor, specifically justification. The main advantage of being a Jew, under the law, is the fact that his people have access to the oracles. And do these oracles contain proclamations declaring the righteousness of the Jewish people? No, in fact, just the opposite. In other words, living under the law did not give the Jews an advantage with respect to righteousness. These people proved themselves to be sinners just like the rest of us. These oracles condemn all people, including the Jewish people of sin. Thus Paul has proven his thesis statement that every human being falls short of God's glory and if human beings hope to be saved from that condition, there needs to be another way. Chapter four opens with a discussion of the "new way."

Romans 7:7
This verse resides in a discussion concerning the reliability of the law itself. In fact, this verse is the opening question, "Is the law itself sin?" He will consider the fact that the Law, in a sense, lead to his death. (condemned him to die) and the question is whether this would be considered manslaughter. (an unintentional death.) Is the law itself responsible for evil? Paul will argue that the law was not the perpetrator of his death; sin was. Paul was already dead when the law came along to show him his condition. The law is not evil, the law is good because it helps us see ourselves for who we really are.

Suppose I claim the ability to lift 100 pounds. The claim remains theoretical until someone asks me to prove it. Only when I make the attempt is the issue resolved either way. The challenge is good, because the act of lifting the weight will demonstrate whether my claim is true or not.

Suppose I claim to be a righteous man and good man. The claim remains theoretical until a law asks me to prove it. The Jewish law, for instance, defines righteousness in terms of practices and intent, and it commands the Jew to keep those practices and have the right inwardness. The Law is good because until anyone actually lives according to a righteous code such as the Jewish law, his claim to be righteous man is theoretical.

Jesus told the crowd that their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. What did he mean? I said earlier that the Law not only defines righteousness in terms of practice, it also defines righteousness in terms of having the proper inwardness. And this was the missing piece the Pharisees ignored. Jesus was critical of the Pharisees because although orthopraxy was not a problem for them, orthodoxy was. In short, they were doing all the right things but for the wrong reason. They lived the correct praxis, but without contrition, humility, honesty, or faith.

In his argument which begins in 7:7, Paul makes the point that as long as he based his justification on his praxis, he was "alive" with respect to justification; but when he considered coveting, which is not praxis but inwardness, he found that he was "dead" with respect to justification. Coveting is not praxis. That is, coveting takes place in the mind and the heart, not in public where all can see. Paul's warning and exhortation is to those who rely on orthopraxy as the means to God's favor. Paul warns them that the Law not only dictates practice (works) it also dictates inwardness.
(wow, these posts are long.)
 

GracePeace

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Two verses are unrelated when they reside in passages that have different subjects in view.
So if Paul describes "murder" in these two passages, no one is allowed to take advantage of that, and pick his brain on his definition of "murder"? LOL
Why?

Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, helps the reader follow his arguments, introducing them with rhetorical questions.
I don't think that's his intention--I think he's actually preempting Rome's Jewish believers' objections. He knew Gentiles didn't have the Scriptures so they would not of necessity have been able to follow along, most of it (from about Romans 2 through 11:12, but he addresses Gentiles finally in Romans 11:13) was written for the Jewish believers.

Romans 3:20
This verse resides in a discussion of the advantages of living under the law. He opens this discussion with a question, "What advantage has the Jew?" Paul will argue that while there are advantages to being a Jew, living under the law, he and his objectors disagree that living as a Jew gives them the advantage with regard to God's favor, specifically justification. The main advantage of being a Jew, under the law, is the fact that his people have access to the oracles. And do these oracles contain proclamations declaring the righteousness of the Jewish people? No, in fact, just the opposite. In other words, living under the law did not give the Jews an advantage with respect to righteousness. These people proved themselves to be sinners just like the rest of us. These oracles condemn all people, including the Jewish people of sin. Thus Paul has proven his thesis statement that every human being falls short of God's glory and if human beings hope to be saved from that condition, there needs to be another way. Chapter four opens with a discussion of the "new way."
1. No, actually, a) there were no chapters when he wrote it, and b) the "alternative" is already being discussed in Romans 3:21--"righteousness of God".
2. The notion "Different portions of Paul's writings have no corresponding ideas in them--none of his content can be compared or considered analogous to any other part in his writings" should be rejected as absurd.
His letter is a cohesive whole, and uses the same terms and definitions throughout.

Romans 7:7
This verse resides in a discussion concerning the reliability of the law itself. In fact, this verse is the opening question, "Is the law itself sin?" He will consider the fact that the Law, in a sense, lead to his death. (condemned him to die) and the question is whether this would be considered manslaughter. (an unintentional death.) Is the law itself responsible for evil? Paul will argue that the law was not the perpetrator of his death; sin was. Paul was already dead when the law came along to show him his condition. The law is not evil, the law is good because it helps us see ourselves for who we really are.
Correction : "Or do you not know..." Romans 7:1 is a rejoinder to "you are not under Law but under Grace" Romans 6:14, and it goes on to explain why exactly they are "not under Law", and how exactly they had been "mastered by sin" when they were "in the flesh" Romans 7:5 (Christians like his audience aren't "in the flesh" but "in the Spirit" Romans 8:9) and "under Law".

Suppose I claim the ability to lift 100 pounds. The claim remains theoretical until someone asks me to prove it. Only when I make the attempt is the issue resolved either way. The challenge is good, because the act of lifting the weight will demonstrate whether my claim is true or not.

Suppose I claim to be a righteous man and good man. The claim remains theoretical until a law asks me to prove it. The Jewish law, for instance, defines righteousness in terms of practices and intent, and it commands the Jew to keep those practices and have the right inwardness. The Law is good because until anyone actually lives according to a righteous code such as the Jewish law, his claim to be righteous man is theoretical.
You're actually making my point for me : in both cases, the definitions are the same (the challenge to pick the weight up, and the act of lifting, which you want to place these two portions under, utilize the same definitions--same goalposts, nothing moves).

Jesus told the crowd that their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. What did he mean? I said earlier that the Law not only defines righteousness in terms of practice, it also defines righteousness in terms of having the proper inwardness. And this was the missing piece the Pharisees ignored. Jesus was critical of the Pharisees because although orthopraxy was not a problem for them, orthodoxy was.
In short, they were doing all the right things but for the wrong reason. They lived the correct praxis, but without contrition, humility, honesty, or faith.
1. Please reread Matthew 15, starting at verse 1, because you're totally wrong in saying Jesus thought they had no problem with their practice.
2. None of this is relevant to your point--none of it proves a term's definition he gives can't be helpful for understanding that term when used in another area of literally the same letter. LOL I mean, that's the reason you would give a term's definition in the first place--so that people could use it to help find internal consistencies in your presentation and make sense of your statements. LOL

In his argument which begins in 7:7, Paul makes the point that as long as he based his justification on his praxis, he was "alive" with respect to justification; but when he considered coveting, which is not praxis but inwardness
1. YOU are importing "legal definitions" he never used--for a Jew, "do not covet" was included in "praxis", because the Law was to govern the entire being spirit soul and body (eg, "take heed to your spirit").
2. Again, you still haven't proven Paul "moved the goalposts". Same definitions.

he found that he was "dead" with respect to justification. Coveting is not praxis. That is, coveting takes place in the mind and the heart, not in public where all can see. Paul's warning and exhortation is to those who rely on orthopraxy as the means to God's favor. Paul warns them that the Law not only dictates practice (works) it also dictates inwardness.
(wow, these posts are long.)
No, "works" includes "internalities"--"Commandments" correspond to "works" (obviously, the "work" being "Commanded" must get done), and the greatest two are to love God and men, but these are internal realities, and to "do" them would be to "do the work which was Commanded". No "division" exists between internal and external "works".

Not sure how you were thinking any of this was supposed to prove to anyone I shouldn't find Paul's terms and definitions consistent, because it falls very short of doing that.

I stand by my observation--"The term 'works of Law' cannot be said to refer only to 'Jew-specific commands--circumcision, dietary law, Sabbath, etc'; rather, 'works of Law' must refer to the 'works' corresponding to the Commands which 'the Law' issues (eg, 'do not covet'), or else, there would be no parity between the 'sins' of Gentiles and 'transgressions' of Jews (the Gentiles did not 'sin in the likeness of Adam's sin'--but 'the law came in to increase the transgression', so, through Law, the unknowing sin of the Gentile becomes the knowing sin, trangression ('like Adam'), of the Jew)--and we see that Paul defines 'coveting' as precisely one of the sins which the Commands of the Law, and their corresponding works, bring knowledge of (rendering it a transgression)."
 
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