Grace is NOT unmerited favor!

[justbyfaith]

Yes, He did, and always gave scriptural proof. It was the rabbis that made it harder.

The letter requires that we not do any work on the sabbath day. Exodus 20:10.

But Jesus said, My Father worketh hereunto; and I work. John 5:17.

Then the apostle John testifies under inspiration of the Holy Ghost (John 5:18) that Jesus had not only broken the sabbath but had also said that God was His Father; making Himself equal with God.

 

[marks]

You do know that the law of Liberty is tougher than the Law of Moses don't you?

It's more all-encompassing, but I wouldn't say it is "harder" to keep. I'll go with @Episkopos airplane example here. Keeping the law of liberty is like flying to Hawaii. We can all jump up and down, but only in an airplane will we fly to Hawaii. In the same way, we can all act kindly towards others, but only in our new creation, walking in the Spirit, we keep the law of liberty, the law of love.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Yes, Grace has accountability. If not , then we end up just like the man who buried his talent away , then just gave to the Master when he returned to check what they had done with what He had given then .
The Master commended the man who had doubled his gift, and threw out the man who had "just kept his safe and unused".

Grace is not just 'unmerited favour.'

.....H

Amen Helen,
Those gifts He gives us are to be used. Whatever they may be at any given time; and without His grace to do so, that would not be possible.
We should be encouraging one another to use those gifts over and over when called for.
xo

 

[CharismaticLady]

The letter requires that we not do any work on the sabbath day. Exodus 20:10.

But Jesus said, My Father worketh hereunto; and I work. John 5:17.

Then the apostle John testifies under inspiration of the Holy Ghost (John 5:18) that Jesus had not only broken the sabbath but had also said that God was His Father; making Himself equal with God.

There is a difference between doing work, and doing good. Jesus did good. The Pharisees accused Him of working.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's more all-encompassing, but I wouldn't say it is "harder" to keep. I'll go with @Episkopos airplane example here. Keeping the law of liberty is like flying to Hawaii. We can all jump up and down, but only in an airplane will we fly to Hawaii. In the same way, we can all act kindly towards others, but only in our new creation, walking in the Spirit, we keep the law of liberty, the law of love.

Much love!

You didn't complete my quote. And I said tougher laws, but easier to keep, not harder. Except, of course, if you don't have the Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is a difference between doing work, and doing good. Jesus did good. The Pharisees accused Him of working.

Jesus said He was working, in John 5:17.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus said He was working, in John 5:17.

There are good works and works of toil.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are good works and works of toil.

In Exodus 20:10, you shall not do any work on the sabbath day...

This is the letter of the law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

In Exodus 20:10, you shall not do any work on the sabbath day...

This is the letter of the law.

So if one of your livestock fell in a pit, would you wait till Sunday to help it out?

 

[marks]

You didn't complete my quote. And I said tougher laws, but easier to keep, not harder. Except, of course, if you don't have the Spirit.

For me it's not a matter of effort, rather a matter of nature.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

So if one of your livestock fell in a pit, would you wait till Sunday to help it out?

No, because I am not bound by the letter but rather am obedient to the spirit of the law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, because I am not bound by the letter but rather am obedient to the spirit of the law.

I'm talking about the Sabbath Law. You were accusing Jesus while He was under the law of working on the Sabbath.

So if one of them had an ox and it fell in a pit, would it have been a sin for them to pull it out on the Sabbath?

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm talking about the Sabbath Law. You were accusing Jesus while He was under the law of working on the Sabbath.

He did indeed claim to work on the sabbath day (John 5:17). Do you suppose that He was lying?

 

[CharismaticLady]

He did indeed claim to work on the sabbath day (John 5:17). Do you suppose that He was lying?

It was excused. He said so.

Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. 2 And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. 3 And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

4 But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go. 5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.

Are you accusing Jesus of sinning?

 

[CharismaticLady]

For me it's not a matter of effort, rather a matter of nature.

Much love!

That's why it is easier. There is no struggle to do what comes naturally.

 

[justbyfaith]

It was excused. He said so.

Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. 2 And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. 3 And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

4 But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go. 5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.

Are you accusing Jesus of sinning?

Nope; because my position is that Jesus came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life (Hebrews 7:16); for He is the High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec (Hebrews 7:21, Hebrews 7:26).

Since there is a change in priesthood (from the Aaronic priesthood) there is also a change in law (Hebrews 7:12).

This change in law has to do with the fact that we are no longer subject to a set of do's and don'ts (Romans 7:6); and neither was Jesus, for that matter: but that rather now we define sin by whether or not we walk according to the flesh; because God has confined sin to the flesh (Romans 8:3).

The new law of the Spirit is that we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if we live according to the flesh, we will die; but if through the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the body, we will live. Romans 8:12-13.

Now the Lord Jesus also commanded a lame man to pick up his mat and to walk on the sabbath day; and this was in effect a violation of the sabbath day law (as the letter defined it) in His teaching; for Jesus here by example was saying that it was not necessary to observe the letter of the sabbath day laws; in that He told a lame man to pick up his mat and walk around with it (which was working on the sabbath day, a violation of Exodus 20:10; which declares to us the letter of the sabbath law).

You can find this story in John 5.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, Jesus claimed to be working on the sabbath day; for the context of John 5:17 bears out that it was on the sabbath day that He said, My Father worketh hitherto; and I work.

 

[justbyfaith]

It was excused. He said so.

Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. 2 And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. 3 And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

4 But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go. 5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?” 6 And they could not answer Him regarding these things.

Also, this is not the same passage as what we are looking at in John 5.

You can bring other passages into it if you want; but if you are going to do so you should at least mention that it is a different passage than the one being discussed.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Nope; because my position is that Jesus came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life (Hebrews 7:16); for He is the High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec (Hebrews 7:21, Hebrews 7:26).

Since there is a change in priesthood (from the Aaronic priesthood) there is also a change in law (Hebrews 7:12).

This change in law has to do with the fact that we are no longer subject to a set of do's and don'ts (Romans 7:6); and neither was Jesus, for that matter: but that rather now we define sin by whether or not we walk according to the flesh; because God has confined sin to the flesh (Romans 8:3).

The new law of the Spirit is that we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if we live according to the flesh, we will die; but if through the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the body, we will live. Romans 8:12-13.

Now the Lord Jesus also commanded a lame man to pick up his mat and to walk on the sabbath day; and this was in effect a violation of the sabbath day law (as the letter defined it) in His teaching; for Jesus here by example was saying that it was not necessary to observe the letter of the sabbath day laws; in that He told a lame man to pick up his mat and walk around with it (which was working on the sabbath day, a violation of Exodus 20:10; which declares to us the letter of the sabbath law).

You can find this story in John 5.

Jesus was BORN as a human under the law. He lived under the law. He wasn't our High Priest until after the Resurrection.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus was BORN as a human under the law. He lived under the law. He wasn't our High Priest until after the Resurrection.

So, are you saying that John 5:18 doesn't show clearly that Jesus was and is equal with the Father?

Because if He did not violate the sabbath according to John 5:18, it can be argued that He also didn't say that God was His Father; making Himself equal with God.

And Jesus is our High Priest throughout eternity.

Even if He wasn't, He still came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life (Hebrews 7:16).

And therefore violating the letter would not in effect make Him a sinner.

But since the priesthood was in fact changed at the coming of Christ, the law also was changed so that Jesus' violation of the letter of the sabbath day laws did not amount to sinning.