Hamas has attacked Israel with 5000 rockets, 100 dead Israelis. Israel and Hamas now at war

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wrong. There was no Palestinian State 120 years ago for the ‘Zionist’ leaders to invade.

The Palestinians were on the losing side of World War One. Losing territory - and even existence - is a common consequence to losing a war. See Confederate States of America. See indigenous tribes of North America. See the British Empire, German Empire, Roman Empire, Persian Empire, Mongol Empire, India, Empire of Japan. Why is your view that the Ottoman Empire ought to be different viz a vie the Palestinians?
I never said there was a Palestinian State P 120 years ago. You though I meant it and I did not. The land was inhabited by tribes of various types, even Christians who lived there for many, many centuries.....it was not a well defined political entity, State or country especially being under the Ottoman Empire until the WWI.

You seem to be trying to find a technical loop-hole in my story. There is not one, and no grounds for it, for these people living in the land called by the Romans since 120-odd AD...Palestine.

And you are trying to find leverage with the Ottoman breakup and the losers in it then had no rights to their land afterwards. You are again missing the main point that these people most of them today from Eastern Europe, as citizens of the State of Israel never had any right to this land called Palestine, in the first place. It is a moral and ethical issue here. By your reasoning, the Babylonians via todays Syria and Iraq then have more rights in Palestine then these from Eastern Europe, using this type of thought. Even Italy has rights via the Romans......this is fools errand way of thinking.
 

Truthnightmare

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
1,180
336
83
44
Athens
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your inflect does not answer my question, since consistency is key.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

All Israel (pās Israēl). What does Paul mean? The immediate context (use of pās in contrast with apo merous, plērōma here in contrast with plērōma in Rom_11:12) argues for the Jewish people “as a whole.

But the spiritual Israel (both Jews and Gentiles) may be his idea in accord with Rom_9:6 (Gal_6:16) as the climax of the argument. At any rate we should strive for and pray for the conversion of Jews as a whole. Paul here quotes from Isa_59:20.; Isa_27:9.


Rom 11:26 And so Klal Yisroel shall be delivered, as it is written: "Out of Tziyon shall come the Go'el (Deliverer, Redeemer); He will turn away, remove peysha from Ya'akov (Jacob),
Rom 11:27 "And this will be My Berit (covenant) with them, when I take away their sins" YESHAYAH 59:20-21; 27:9.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Who are the chosen whom God foreknew?
We can’t move forward until you stop replacing Israel with Jewish people.

See you don’t seem to understand
Your inflect does not answer my question, since consistency is key.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

All Israel (pās Israēl). What does Paul mean? The immediate context (use of pās in contrast with apo merous, plērōma here in contrast with plērōma in Rom_11:12) argues for the Jewish people “as a whole.

But the spiritual Israel (both Jews and Gentiles) may be his idea in accord with Rom_9:6 (Gal_6:16) as the climax of the argument. At any rate we should strive for and pray for the conversion of Jews as a whole. Paul here quotes from Isa_59:20.; Isa_27:9.


Rom 11:26 And so Klal Yisroel shall be delivered, as it is written: "Out of Tziyon shall come the Go'el (Deliverer, Redeemer); He will turn away, remove peysha from Ya'akov (Jacob),
Rom 11:27 "And this will be My Berit (covenant) with them, when I take away their sins" YESHAYAH 59:20-21; 27:9.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Who are the chosen whom God foreknew?
We have a disconnect in our understanding of Jew. So let’s clear that up first. Who was the first
Jew?
 
J

Johann

Guest
We can’t move forward until you stop replacing Israel with Jewish people.

See you don’t seem to understand

We have a disconnect in our understanding of Jew. So let’s clear that up first. Who was the first
Jew?
Jesus Christ tells John in Revelation 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are jews and are not but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN ". We know that God changed the name of Abram to Abraham Gen. 17:5 and that God changed the name of Jacob to Israel Gen. 32:28 but no where in the Bible do we find where God changed the name of his chosen people Israel to Jew!

Therefore there is no authority by which those who say they are jews can claim to be Israel!

Do you not find it very strange that those who claim to have written the first five books of the Bible and call themselves Jew , can't find the word Jew written in the book anywhere they call there own bible and claim to have written ?

No Jew-but Israel.
Correct?

 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,603
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
it was not a well defined political entity, State or country especially being under the Ottoman Empire until the WWI.

You seem to be trying to find a technical loop-hole in my story.
Nope. The Muslims lost in WWI. Either accept terms of cease fire - which includes Israel’s right to exist - or resume world war. Simple.

Your story that the Jews are not indigenous to Jerusalem is fictional unless you go back 4,000 years ago.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,675
5,328
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
We can’t move forward until you stop replacing Israel with Jewish people.

See you don’t seem to understand

We have a disconnect in our understanding of Jew. So let’s clear that up first. Who was the first
Jew?
Daniel 12:1, the angel says to Daniel about 'thy people' this at the end of the age (world)

King James Bible
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And in Daniel 10 this about 'your people' far into the future

12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Truthnightmare

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
1,180
336
83
44
Athens
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus Christ tells John in Revelation 2:9 "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are jews and are not but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN ". We know that God changed the name of Abram to Abraham Gen. 17:5 and that God changed the name of Jacob to Israel Gen. 32:28 but no where in the Bible do we find where God changed the name of his chosen people Israel to Jew!

Therefore there is no authority by which those who say they are jews can claim to be Israel!

Do you not find it very strange that those who claim to have written the first five books of the Bible and call themselves Jew , can't find the word Jew written in the book anywhere they call there own bible and claim to have written ?

No Jew-but Israel.
Correct?

That is incorrect, and you will be left rendering misunderstandings if you believe that utilizing one reference I pointed to as my ultimate.

Again you seem to notmunderstand the terminology and defining points of what a Jew is.

So, you have clearly referenced “Jews” so let me direct.

Adam was the first Adamic
Eber was the first Hebrew
Jacob was the first Israelite.

Note: the word ISRAEL is a acronym.
(I)saac (S)arah (R)ebekah (A)braham (E) is for Hebrew pronunciation. (R)ebekah

ISRAEL…. Jacobs name was changed to Israel and this Jacob was the first Israelite.

So I ask again, who was the first Jew.
 
  • Like
Reactions: APAK

Truthnightmare

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
1,180
336
83
44
Athens
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Daniel 12:1, the angel says to Daniel about 'thy people' this at the end of the age (world)

King James Bible
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And in Daniel 10 this about 'your people' far into the future

12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.
Heya Scott,
Im not sure I quite understand, but I noticed you mentioned “your people” who do you believe “your people” are? Who are these people, where do they come from, and who was the first one of them?
 
J

Johann

Guest
That is incorrect, and you will be left rendering misunderstandings if you believe that utilizing one reference I pointed to as my ultimate.

Again you seem to notmunderstand the terminology and defining points of what a Jew is.

So, you have clearly referenced “Jews” so let me direct.

Adam was the first Adamic
Eber was the first Hebrew
Jacob was the first Israelite.

Note: the word ISRAEL is a acronym.
(I)saac (S)arah (R)ebekah (A)braham (E) is for Hebrew pronunciation. (R)ebekah

ISRAEL…. Jacobs name was changed to Israel and this Jacob was the first Israelite.

So I ask again, who was the first Jew.
By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into ae-Ioudaios-Iudaeusalso including in this meaning were the terms Judea-Judean or person living in Judea. The original King James version of the Bible 1611 translated Idumaean - Judean into Iewes. It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word jew appeared (after the year 1900 ). The word jew does not mean Israel or Israelite!

We must therefore conclude that the first jews were Canaanite-Edomite-Hittite. It is certain according to the Bible that Khazar jews are not Israel. [From the Christian Guard Dispatch 76-77]

Jesus was a Jew.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,675
5,328
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Heya Scott,
Im not sure I quite understand, but I noticed you mentioned “your people” who do you believe “your people” are? Who are these people, where do they come from, and who was the first one of them?
Your people, thy people are those who are of the Jews.
God says in Romans 10 how he saves a remnant of the Jews.
Paul goes into great detail about both Jew and gentiles.

The Jews had returned after the captivity in Babylon, and no apostle of Christ or Christ ever said they were not Jewish.
The angel speaking to Daniel is referring to the nation of Jews far into the future.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,675
5,328
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Only those people who are born of the Spirit will be saved, And that holy nation comes from both Jew and gentile.
Not all jews or all gentiles are saved at the end.

In scripture, people are divided between Jew and gentile, gentiles making up all the nations that were not the jews.
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
10,356
10,827
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into ae-Ioudaios-Iudaeusalso including in this meaning were the terms Judea-Judean or person living in Judea. The original King James version of the Bible 1611 translated Idumaean - Judean into Iewes. It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word jew appeared (after the year 1900 ). The word jew does not mean Israel or Israelite!

We must therefore conclude that the first jews were Canaanite-Edomite-Hittite. It is certain according to the Bible that Khazar jews are not Israel. [From the Christian Guard Dispatch 76-77]

Jesus was a Jew.
I recommend that Jesus was a Judahite from Judea for the tribe of Judah, not a Jew. He was called the King of the Judeans by the Romans not 'King of the Jews' as many think incorrectly.

The reason why, it causes confusion today. Because today this name 'Jew' a constricted word for a Judahite has been hijacked to a new meaning, to mean these Khazarians or the Ashkenazi Jew from the Black Sea region, to many. Jesus was never a Khazarian and from these tribes they came from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,666
2,332
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To All who deny that a remnant of the 12 tribes of the Israelites still exist: You must deny this following passage ( or distort it as something symbolic) as a literal event that will soon take place just prior to, in the beginning of, or during the time period known as the Great Tribulation. This event surely refers to at least a partial remnant mentioned in Romans 11:26 "all Israel will be saved".
There is a clear distinction in Romans 11 that Paul makes between himself, an Israelite from the Tribe of Benjamin and the Gentiles who were grafted in.
as we look at the multitude in heaven on verse 9 (a separate vision from those sealed _ on earth) of this following passage, we see the Church, a number that no one can count, billions. Two separate groups, one on earth alive and another in heaven.


4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
Rev. 7:4-9


FYI. There is nothing symbolic about these numbers, tribes or their sealing by the Holy Spirit. Symbolic language never identifies real names of tribes. A specific number (144k) is sealed on earth for a specific task on earth before any destruction occurs from the First Four Seals that have just been opened. The command to the Four angels is given:
saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” Rev. 7:3

The sealed 144k are clearly physically separate from the multitude in heaven, but of course now, they are in spiritually part of Body of Christ. Let me throw a wrench into the mix. Something is also different, this group was not raptured with the rest, they remain on earth ... did they miss it and sealed after the rapture?
>> This whole chapter is not in a chronological sequence that occurs after the 4 Seals events have engaged, but a parenthetical clause, intended as prerequisite actions and information.
As one examines the destruction of the Four Riders of Horses of the Apolcaplyse, we see devastating results, 25% of the population destroyed. That's two billion! So obviously, these 144k are sealed before that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Scott Downey
J

Johann

Guest
I recommend that Jesus was a Judahite from Judea for the tribe of Judah, not a Jew. He was called the King of the Judeans by the Romans not 'King of the Jews' as many think incorrectly.

The reason why, it causes confusion today. Because today this name 'Jew' a constricted word for a Judahite has been hijacked to a new meaning, to mean these Khazarians or the Ashkenazi Jew from the Black Sea region, to many. Jesus was never a Khazarian and from these tribes they came from.
Let’s think about Jesus. Jesus was both a Jew, in terms of his religious identity (involving law), and also a Judean, in terms of his location:

he lived in the land of Judea, which was a land that comprised regions stretching from Idumaea in the south to Galilee in the north and included the old territorial homeland of the Judahites — Judah/Judea — in its center. This is quite different to someone like the apostle Paul, who was originally a Jew living in the Diaspora, in the city of Tarsus. Jesus was additionally a Judahite, in that he was of the tribe of Judah. The fact that as an adult he lived in Galilee does not take away his tribal affiliation, even though Ernst Renan, for example, notoriously argued in his book Vie de Jésus (1863; English translation The Life of Jesus in 1935) that Jesus was fundamentally a Galilean and noted that this was a region of ethnic mixing, so that Jesus’s “blood” would be difficult to determine. Ethnically, he was of a long line of Judahites that could be traced back to David: the earliest evidence we have on Jesus is from Paul, who twice stresses that he was “born from the seed of David” (Romans 1:3) and from “the root of Jesse”of Isaiah 11:10 (Romans 15:12).

J.
 
  • Like
Reactions: APAK

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
5,406
5,862
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte
J

Johann

Guest
Washington Post columnist dragged for claiming 'we cannot stand by and watch Israel commit atrocities'


What about the atrocities committed by Hamas against Israel?
What do you think of the Charter of Hamas?
 
  • Sad
Reactions: mailmandan

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
5,406
5,862
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you think of the Charter of Hamas?
Hamas, whose 1988 founding charter called for Israel's destruction, is classified a terrorist organisation by Israel, the United States, the European Union, Canada, Egypt and Japan. :eek:
 
J

Johann

Guest
Hamas, whose 1988 founding charter called for Israel's destruction, is classified a terrorist organisation by Israel, the United States, the European Union, Canada, Egypt and Japan. :eek:
And is there any justification for Israel bombing innocent Palestine's?