Hard Truth For Non Tongue Speakers

[JesusIsFaithful]

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

If you agree that the above verses is for each and every believer, then you have to agree that the Holy Spirit is not using tongues for uttering His own intercessions when He cannot even utter His own groanings.

You cannot agree that the Spirit is praying in tongues regardless of how tongue speakers testify to how the Spirit will urge them to pray for someone in tongues, because what about you? The stigma is that " if " the Spirit is using tongues as being necessary to utter His own intercessions for the tongue speakers, how does that not make you look out in the cold from the Holy Spirit?

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. KJV

If Jesus testified that the Father knows before we ask Him, then why should we believe that supposedly the Holy Spirit has to use tongues to make the Father know what we are going through?

Does God love the non-tongue speakers or not? Yes, He does. Then what tongue speakers are sharing in how the Spirit in them pray in tongues is an act that denies God's love towards us all.

Does God show partiality? Then neither should tongue speakers that pray in tongues say so by their actions and testimony about praying in tongues. They are the ones that separate themselves from the body of Christ by claiming to have another drink of the One Spirit by how they got that tongue which comes with no interpretation which is why I say it is not of Him at all.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

They have failed to test the spirits, and it is no wonder why some tongue speakers will go further for another drink of the One Spirit for other signs of confusion in the flesh.

So do not feel left out, non-tongue speakers, because most tongue speakers today do not have the actual God's gift of tongues which was prophesied for speaking unto the people; not for ALSO speaking back to God. That would be confusing which God is not the author of.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.....32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I really don't know what you are arguing for?

 

[amadeus]

I really don't know what you are arguing for?

It appears to me that he has decided that he knows how God works and how God does not works in every case and is checking to see if anyone would disagree with Him.

 

[Enoch111]

I really don't know what you are arguing for?

Based on the OP, I believe the title should have said "Hard Truth for Tongues Speakers".

There is little doubt that *prayer language* (as postulated by Pentecostals and Charismatics today) is NOT the spiritual gift of tongues (which really should have been translated as "languages").

GLOSSAIS = LANGUAGES = FOREIGN LANGUAGES SPOKEN SUPERNATURALLY.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Based on the OP, I believe the title should have said "Hard Truth for Tongues Speakers".

There is little doubt that *prayer language* (as postulated by Pentecostals and Charismatics today) is NOT the spiritual gift of tongues (which really should have been translated as "languages").

GLOSSAIS = LANGUAGES = FOREIGN LANGUAGES SPOKEN SUPERNATURALLY.

A lot of non tongue speakers usually avoid the issue and just show support while ignoring the unseen damage it does to some of the non-tongue speakers that may be asking why isn't the Holy Spirit making any intercessions for them? They may think that they do not have the Holy Spirit and by the testimonies of most tongues speakers, they may be tempted to seek to receive the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues or by a sign of tongues apart from salvation when He is already in them as promised by faith in Jesus Christ; Galatians 3:14 & Galatians 3:26.

It is a hard truth for non tongue speaker because like it or not, tongue speakers are separating themselves from the average believers by experiencing something that non tongue speakers haven't yet; all the while insisting that the reason that tongue comes with no interpretation is because the Holy Spirit uses it as a form of prayer. This tempts believers not rooted in the word to chase after receiving the Holy Spirit by a sign as the world does by seeking to receive spirits by a sign too when tongues was never to serve as a sign towards believers in regards to proof that they have the Holy Spirit.

Tongues were only to serve as a sign towards unbelievers by hearing the gospel in their native tongues as prophesied; 1 Corinthians 14:20-22

But, yes, it is a hard truth for tongue speakers, but of late, it seems His reproofs are not received.

So now the message goes out to non tongue speakers so that they do not have to worry about not having tongues so the Holy Spirit can pray for them when He doesn't need tongues to pray for them nor can He utter His own groanings but the Father knows just by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit just as the Son searches our hearts for why the Father knows everything before we even ask Him in our normal prayer ourselves

God wants us to pray so that when we get an answer to what we knew we had prayed for, the Father would receive genuine thanks from us in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

So there is no genuine benefit to tongues without interpretation unless it is understood. God does not do anything in half measures and He certainly will not change the purpose of His gift of tongues around when that would only cause confusion. Nor does God shows partiality in the body of Christ. If there was necessity for the Holy Spirit to have tongues in order to make His intercessions known to the Father, every believer would have it, but no.

Non-tongue speakers can rest assured that they are not missing anything as they should rest in Him that Jesus Whom searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit, will give the Spirit's unspoken and unutterable intercessions to the Father because that is the will of God for the Son to do so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers by the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I really don't know what you are arguing for?

Hoping the Lord will reassure non-tongue speakers that they do have the Holy Spirit since salvation when they believed in Him at the calling of the gospel and that the Holy Spirit does not need tongues to utter His unspoken intercessions when the Son that searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) and knows the mind of the Spirit, will give the unspoken intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

That is how and why the Father knows everything before we ask anything in prayer.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. KJV

The hard truth for non-tongue speakers to accept is to stop supporting praying in tongues and declare that the Holy Spirit doesn't need tongues to make His unspoken intercessions known to the Father, thanks to the Son, Jesus Christ, for knowing the mind of the Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you agree that the above verses is for each and every believer

the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world, but somehow those vv are reserved for "believers?"
hmm

 

[Enoch111]

It is a hard truth for non tongue speaker because like it or not, tongue speakers are separating themselves from the average believers by experiencing something that non tongue speakers haven't yet...

This is true. Now we seemingly have *first class Christians* and *second class Christians* based on the criterion of being *Spirit-filled* or not.

Pentecostal churches teach that those who are Spirit-filled will speak in *tongues*.

8. THE INITIAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance...The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues, but is different in purpose and use...

https://ag.org/Beliefs/Statement-of-Fundamental-Truths#8

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

the Lamb of God takes away the sins of the world, but somehow those vv are reserved for "believers?"
hmm

Only believers have His seal of adoption, the Holy Spirit, to make unspoken intercessions for us. Romans 8:9 does signify that there are some that do not have the seal of God; hence the unbelievers.

Former believers still have His seal for why they are called still to depart from iniquity to avoid becoming that vessel unto dishonor in His House in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 If you doubt the meaning of 2 Timothy 2:18-21, then explain verse 13 in 2 Timothy 2:10-13

So yes, what you say is true ....like an antidote that can take away the poison of the world, but it is only good when received by believing in Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

Only believers have His seal of adoption, the Holy Spirit

my point is that satan also believes, so i am kind of attempting to contrast "believer" with..."follower" or something similar i guess

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

This is true. Now we seemingly have *first class Christians* and *second class Christians* based on the criterion of being *Spirit-filled* or not.

Pentecostal churches teach that those who are Spirit-filled will speak in *tongues*.


https://ag.org/Beliefs/Statement-of-Fundamental-Truths#8

So while some tongue speakers are upset over non-tongue speakers raining on their parades, they are overlooking the damage they do by the flood of their words for praying in tongues and not just by how they had gained that tongue.

Which is why I point to 1 Corinthians 12:13 that they are the ones separating from the testimony we are all suppose to share just as they are the ones departing from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils to cherish tongues without interpretation which is nothing but confusion. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

Non-tongue speakers need not be envious of that kind of tongue nor should they move away from their resting place in Jesus Christ when the are filled since they had believed at the calling of the gospel which is the traditions taught of us and why those that depart are disorderly and not just in confusion.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 & 1 Corinthians 14:32-33

Readers can point their arrow from their mouse on the scriptural references and click on it to see the verses. FYI

 

[bbyrd009]

So yes, what you say is true

i doubt it :)

like an antidote that can take away the poison of the world, but it is only good when received by believing in Him.

but satan believes too, right, so i guess i would urge a better term there maybe, although i realize you are just using an accepted term, shorthand, whatever

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a hard truth for non tongue speaker because like it or not, tongue speakers are separating themselves from the average believers by experiencing something that non tongue speakers haven't yet

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Lolium_temulentum

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

my point is that satan also believes, so i am kind of attempting to contrast "believer" with..."follower" or something similar i guess

Well, Satan hardly has saving belief. Devils know God exists and they also know that they should be afraid of Him, but that doesn't necessarily mean they want any part of Him or anything that is good, let alone be saved by Him.

I believe the reference you are referring to was James reproving point about the church applying faith in God's Providence to the poor without leading by example. If the church is going to voice their belief in God to provide to the poor, then they best meet the immediate needs of the poor that are about to perish from the bounty collected after church service to show that the church does have faith in God to provide to have enough leftover after meeting their immediate needs for what He wants the Church to operate by.

It was never about the saving faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works, but about how the church was disrespecting the poor during church service if you read that at the beginning of James 2:1-6 and etc. to where the church was even disrespecting the poor after service by getting out of helping the poor by voicing God's faith to provide for them as if by voicing it in a benediction, God will do it, without the church helping them.

So it was kind of a rebuke about how the devil believe in God and yet they tremble with fear wherein the church believed that God will provide to the poor, but not for the church that they did not felt free to meet the immediate needs of the poor after service, showing faith in God had provided that there will be what the church needs afterwards. Herein, they said they had believed in God to provide but they really didn't when they were just saying so to the poor to get out of helping the poor and so in that sense, they did not fear God at all compared to the devils' belief.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

i doubt it :)
but satan believes too, right, so i guess i would urge a better term there maybe, although i realize you are just using an accepted term, shorthand, whatever

See post #14 if you haven't already. ;)

 

[bbyrd009]

Satan hardly has saving belief

i don't believe there is any such thing wadr. Can you Quote it? ty

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Lolium_temulentum

Hard of hearing. I had thought the video would have the lyrics written for me to read why it was playing, but I guess they just meant audio lyrics.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

i don't believe there is any such thing wadr. Can you Quote it? ty

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If you consider how many believers were saved at the calling of the gospel by having received the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Spirit as our seal of adoption thus a testimony to our salvation ( Ephesians 4:30 ), then you can understand why Jesus commanded His disciples to make disciples of other believers.

Running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith is not for obtaining salvation, but for discipleship in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ in helping us to lay aside every weight & sin so that we may be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.

You and I can only testify to Jesus Christ as our Saviour when He has saved us by believing in Him.

Otherwise, if discipleship was about obtaining salvation, then we cannot testify that He is our Saviour, seeing we have to keep on following Him until we die, and then whom are we going to tell the "Good NEWS?" to when it is hardly Good News when it sounds like every other religion out there where men are the saviors of themselves by their merits and will power; hence imagine Heaven full of stuck ups in Heaven and hardly thanking God for anything at all.... which is why Heaven will not be like that.

We find exhortations towards disciples in the latter days to run that race to be ready for the Bridegroom by their faith in Him as their Good Shepherd so that they may escape and "be saved" in that sense from that fire coming on the earth ( see 2 Peter 3 rd chapter ) and as a result, the coming great tribulation, but not for salvation when they were saved in the first place in order to be in that race for the high prize of our calling to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House to avoid becoming that castaway; hence vessels unto dishonor to be received later on in His House. 2 Timothy 2:19-21 & Hebrews 12:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

You can click on scriptural references to pop up the reading for those verses. FYI

 

[bbyrd009]

Hard of hearing. I had thought the video would have the lyrics written for me to read why it was playing, but I guess they just meant audio lyrics.

ah sorry, i meant for the picture to impart all of the info there, but i guess that would be taken wrong anyway; i don't mean that the experience you describe is "bad."

but i guess it is fair to say that that experience is a...beginning one? One that pretty much every brand new Prot comes into contact with almost immediately, and deals with like day 1 as a newbie? Some religions even consider "Speaking in Tongues" to be a salvation requirement? (When i was a child, i spoke like a child...)

 

[bbyrd009]

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

ah sorry, can you show me from the Lex? ty
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/1-12.htm
your "belief" began as "faith" in that v imo
i am aware that they share a synonym, but they are also considerably different
except in English i guess

a point here being that we have two defs for "belief" whereas Scripture really only has one