Harmonized Seals, Trumpets, Bowls

[Raccoon1010]

Has anyone else harmonized the seals, trumps and bowls?

The idea is there is only one period of tribulation but because the world is so large it is seen from 3 different vantage points. (my opinion... Americas, Israel and allies, Enemies of Israel)

How many times is there an earthquake like none other seen before of after? 3 times? or is the 6th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl describing the same event?

Also we like to say we will see the endtimes happen because it takes time. The scroll can't be opened even a little until all 7 seals are removed. It can happen all at once. All the trumpets can blow in quick succession and the effects felt for the next 7 years. Likewise the bowl judgements.

Discussion Welcome. Disagree with biblical references.

Too many people think they understand the book of revelation and think it applies to today's time. Perhaps some of it applies to today. :hmm:

 

[Timtofly]

The harmonization of the plagues is not a new idea... aprox 30 years in my head and I didn't originate the idea.

The Seals deal with the church and then the church is taken away. The Trumpets deal with Israel, as Israel is taken away. The Thunders deal with the Nations, the harvest of the wheat and tares, sown during the Trumpets.

The vials are poured out on Satan's Babylonian kingdom, along with the FP, the religious harlot. The only humans left on earth are those removed from the Lamb's book of life, having the mark of Satan's kingdom. Those beheaded are removed during Satan's 42 months.

The 6th Seal puts the continents back as one continent with mountains. There is only one other place where there is another earthquake that removes the mountains. There will be no separation of earth into islands nor mountain ranges during the Millennium. There will be a few seas, but no Islands in those seas.

There is an earthquake when Jesus lands on the mount of Olives at the 6th Seal. There is an earthquake while the two witnesses lay dead during the 6th vial, who are then given back their life, and ascend into Heaven. Later that day is the 1 hour battle of Armageddon. Then the earth is created a new with the start of the Millennium, Isaiah 65. There is at least 42 months between earthquakes.

 

[David Boyer]

The Seals deal with the church and then the church is taken away. The Trumpets deal with Israel, as Israel is taken away. The Thunders deal with the Nations, the harvest of the wheat and tares, sown during the Trumpets.

The vials are poured out on Satan's Babylonian kingdom, along with the FP, the religious harlot. The only humans left on earth are those removed from the Lamb's book of life, having the mark of Satan's kingdom. Those beheaded are removed during Satan's 42 months.

The 6th Seal puts the continents back as one continent with mountains. There is only one other place where there is another earthquake that removes the mountains. There will be no separation of earth into islands nor mountain ranges during the Millennium. There will be a few seas, but no Islands in those seas.

There is an earthquake when Jesus lands on the mount of Olives at the 6th Seal. There is an earthquake while the two witnesses lay dead during the 6th vial, who are then given back their life, and ascend into Heaven. Later that day is the 1 hour battle of Armageddon. Then the earth is created a new with the start of the Millennium, Isaiah 65. There is at least 42 months between earthquakes.

Fascinating idea. Not supported by the text, but fascinating.

 

[David Boyer]

Okay, so according to you, Scriptural posting is “gnostic verbiage”.



No need.

Glory to God,
Taken

There was no scripture in your post as I recall.

 

[Timtofly]

Fascinating idea. Not supported by the text, but fascinating.

Do you support every verse by itself, or support each verse by your own imagination?

 

[David Boyer]

Do you support every verse by itself, or support each verse by your own imagination?

With the text of Revelation.

Where does Revelation say that the Seals are for the Church?
Where does Revelation say that the Church is then taken away?
Where does Revelation say that Israel is taken away?
Where does Revelation say that the continents are put back together prior to New Earth?
Where does Revelation say that Jesus lands of the Mount at the 6th Seal?

I thought you said the Vials were for Babylon? But the witnesses are in Jerusalem? Why are they raised at the Vial judgement and not the Trumpets? Do all the Vial judgements only take 3.5 days as that is how long the witnesses are dead?

Where in Revelation is the Earth created anew BEFORE the millennium? Isn't the millennium in Chapter 20 and the New Earth Chapter 21? So Revelation is written backwards?

 

[Timtofly]

With the text of Revelation.

Where does Revelation say that the Seals are for the Church?
Where does Revelation say that the Church is then taken away?
Where does Revelation say that Israel is taken away?
Where does Revelation say that the continents are put back together prior to New Earth?
Where does Revelation say that Jesus lands of the Mount at the 6th Seal?

I thought you said the Vials were for Babylon? But the witnesses are in Jerusalem? Why are they raised at the Vial judgement and not the Trumpets? Do all the Vial judgements only take 3.5 days as that is how long the witnesses are dead?

Where in Revelation is the Earth created anew BEFORE the millennium? Isn't the millennium in Chapter 20 and the New Earth Chapter 21? So Revelation is written backwards?

Which of these questions are symbolic, and which are literal?

 

[David Boyer]

Which of these questions are symbolic, and which are literal?

I literally asked all the questions. These would be the first points that I can't find in Revelation, so if you have chapter and verse where these questions are answered... great.

I never speak in symbols. If this is what you believe then you should have the references to back up your claims.

 

[Taken]

With the text of Revelation.
Where does Revelation say that the Seals are for the Church?

It doesn’t.
Seals releases the four horsemen with power.
Seals are judgements via, the Lamb’s wrath, upon those having rejected the Lamb’s offering of Conversion...includes Believers, NOT converted (they are not the Church) and non Believers.

Where does Revelation say that the Church is then taken away?

It doesn’t. Majority of who believe before the Trib, during the Trib, are killed, then soul saved. Bodily raised up after 1,000 yrs reign.

Where does Revelation say that Israel is taken away?

It doesn’t. Majority of Israel (People) Who Believe IN God, Come to Believe IN Christ, are killed, then soul saved. Bodily raised up after 1,000 yrs reign.

Where does Revelation say that the continents are put back together prior to New Earth?

It doesn’t. Silent on reconnecting continents. Mts. & Oceans/Seas, no more. Speculation, Earth may be one land mass, possibly to travel on foot or by animals/carts.

Where does Revelation say that Jesus lands of the Mount at the 6th Seal?

It doesn’t.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David Boyer]

It doesn’t.
Seals releases the four horsemen with power.
Seals are judgements via, the Lamb’s wrath, upon those having rejected the Lamb’s offering of Conversion...includes Believers, NOT converted (they are not the Church) and non Believers.



It doesn’t. Majority of who believe before the Trib, during the Trib, are killed, then soul saved. Bodily raised up after 1,000 yrs reign.



It doesn’t. Majority of Israel (People) Who Believe IN God, Come to Believe IN Christ, are killed, then soul saved. Bodily raised up after 1,000 yrs reign.



It doesn’t. Silent on reconnecting continents. Mts. & Oceans/Seas, no more. Speculation, Earth may be one land mass, possibly to travel on foot or by animals/carts.



It doesn’t.

Glory to God,
Taken

So your entire eschatology that you laid out in a previous post has NO backing in Revelation?
Bold move.

 

[Timtofly]

I literally asked all the questions. These would be the first points that I can't find in Revelation, so if you have chapter and verse where these questions are answered... great.

I never speak in symbols. If this is what you believe then you should have the references to back up your claims.

No, which questions deal with symbolism, and which deal with the literal?

Do your islands represent literal geography or symbolic concepts?

My question was do you support each verse with the text in that verse, or your own imagination? You claim my post was fascinating but not according to the text. What text? Each verse or your interpretation separate from the text?

Well you can start with what an earthquake does in each verse you are claiming:

Seal 6, Trumpet 7 and Vial 7 - Great Earthquake ( 2 of the 3 indicate all mountains + islands moved or destroyed)

If the Seals are the Americas (for a few reasons which you won't take seriously) and the Trumpets is Israel and Vials is the enemies of Israel....
Local events would be shared between the Trumpets and Vials... while different events may be unfolding half a planet away.
Except the earthquake that is powerful enough to be felt worldwide.

The harmonization of the plagues is not a new idea... aprox 30 years in my head and I didn't originate the idea.

Just trying to narrow down on the earthquake part of this discussion.

BTW: the Americas are not found in the text, so don't go looking for other people who you claim "add" to the text, when you do it, yourself. North and South America are continents/islands.

 

[Taken]

So your entire eschatology that you laid out in a previous post has NO backing in Revelation?
Bold move.

I didn’t say that.

 

[David Boyer]

No, which questions deal with symbolism, and which deal with the literal?

Do your islands represent literal geography or symbolic concepts?

My question was do you support each verse with the text in that verse, or your own imagination? You claim my post was fascinating but not according to the text. What text? Each verse or your interpretation separate from the text?

Well you can start with what an earthquake does in each verse you are claiming:



Just trying to narrow down on the earthquake part of this discussion.

BTW: the Americas are not found in the text, so don't go looking for other people who you claim "add" to the text, when you do it, yourself. North and South America are continents/islands.

4th and 5th horsemen given reign over 1/4 of the earth. North and South America make up 28% of the landmass of the earth. So it is possible that the Americas are what is indicated.

Try harmonizing the 3 different plagues (seals, trumps, bowls) and see what you come up with. The earthquake references have already been discussed at length in this post.

 

[David Boyer]

I didn’t say that.

I asked questions taken directly from your post.
You said repeatedly that no reference is found in Revelation for any of them.
So you don't believe what you posted or you don't understand what I asked and what you responded to.
I asked for references for your ideas from Revelation, you said that there is no reference in Revelation for your ideas, then you say that you didn't say that your ideas don't have references in Revelation. Which is it? Provide references or admit that your ideas are not referenced in Revelation. Simplicity itself.

 

[Taken]

I asked questions taken directly from your post.

No you did not.
You asked a list of question, directed to another person. Post # 86.
This is an open forum. I responded to your questions.

 

[David Boyer]

No you did not.
You asked a list of question, directed to another person. Post # 86.
This is an open forum. I responded to your questions.

Thank you for extending grace to my mistake. I am so glad that a "well-known member" would graciously point out to a "new member" that they were jumping in to respond to another persons post. Glad you are so very polite as to point out a simple little misunderstanding with such grace and clarity.

 

[Taken]

Thank you for extending grace to my mistake. I am so glad that a "well-known member" would graciously point out to a "new member" that they were jumping in to respond to another persons post. Glad you are so very polite as to point out a simple little misunderstanding with such grace and clarity.

You’re welcome.

 

[Taken]

Too many people think they understand the book of revelation and think it applies to today's time. Perhaps some of it applies to today. :hmm:

I have studied Revelations in depth, as have a few others on this forum, for example @marks.

Inanutshell, God divided His creations from the beginning, and set the stage of more prophetic divisions throughout history.
Jesus reiterated the division, particularly regarding people.

Revelations is all about Accountability and Consequences and Separations of the Divided, and their eternal expectation;
regarding, People and Angels; from the span of creation to end of mortal days.

The study for that span, can get very intense.

Just saying, it is deep, extensive, and more than just grabbing a Scripture here and there. So agree with your first statement.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David Boyer]

I have studied Revelations in depth, as have a few others on this forum, for example @marks.

Inanutshell, God divided His creations from the beginning, and set the stage of more prophetic divisions throughout history.
Jesus reiterated the division, particularly regarding people.

Revelations is all about Accountability and Consequences and Separations of the Divided, and their eternal expectation;
regarding, People and Angels; from the span of creation to end of mortal days.

The study for that span, can get very intense.

Just saying, it is deep, extensive, and more than just grabbing a Scripture here and there. So agree with your first statement.

Glory to God,
Taken

I couldn't disagree with you more. The book of Revelation states what it is there for, how to handle it and the purpose of the tribulation. Plain English (or Greek if you don't trust translators).

Revelation is the only NT book commanded to be written by Jesus (unless you take Rev 1:19 to "write the things you have seen" to refer to the gospel of John).
Revelation is a single vision, not a teaching, not borrowing from any OT writing or teaching. Rev 1:19 again.
Revelation is a simple read with no hidden agendas (unless you count Rev 10:4 with the Thunders).
Revelation is an open prophecy not like Daniel. (Meant to be understood, or at lease read, heard, and kept Rev 1:3)

Put some of that study on the shelf... Just once... All I would ask is that you just read Revelation with fresh eyes and a willing heart to just let Jesus, through John, speak to you. Don't try to interpret. Don't look for deeper meaning. Just let the Author of the book speak to you. Just once. Then you can go back to your dusty study books.

 

[Taken]

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Ditto.