Have the leadership of the church become pawns of the Devil?

[teamventure]

I must disagree with you. If you hear God's voice...anothers you will not follow.

and if you're rebelious, you'll follow the way of Satan even if it's disguissed as God.
and the devil speaks in tongues too not just God. fyi

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Listen, hear, and Obey on time. There is no better way to know God than to experience Him.

 

[Rex]

Duh................ LOL

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi all,

I have been in different churches and the reason that i have moved on from each one is that the leadership of the church would only allow God to move just so much in my life and no further.

I started out in a Free will Baptist church but when was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in other tongues the wanted me to leave.

Is it possible that one of the main tools that the Devil uses to fight the Holy Spirit is the actual leadership of the normative Christian church? Does Satan use ministers to corral God's people and keep them from maturing into the fulness and stature of Jesus Christ?

<< Link removed. >>

Hi Justin,

There are still a lot of wolves is sheep clothing pastoring the churches. I certainly do agree with you that one way the adversary hinders the church is to keep one from maturing. There is a great need in the true churches to teach hermeneutics with bible studies. If they won't do it, we as Christians must take it upon ourseves if we are serious about our salvation.

 

[[email protected]]

In reply to Justin's post at the beginning of this thread....

The culture wars are going against traditional western society. They are destroying the heart of America and they are crippling the Body of Christ. It has been truly said that protestantism is in self-destruct mode.

"The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes. Protestant clergy donít believe in anything except their well-being and office".
- Adolph Hitler


"If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it."
- Charles Finney

Internal reasons are sex and money. Everyone who reads this can call to memory incidents where protestant leaders have embarrassed the church. They come to the ministry not as a high calling but simply to fulfill a vocation. They are revealed publicly as the wolves they are when they yield to the lusts and appetites of their own flesh. They care not for the flock nor the good name of Christ Jesus.

External reasons are the corruption of society in the form of homosexuality, debauchery of politicians and the robbery of individual wealth by the banks and government. Add to this the pressures of atheistic interest groups, Islam and the neighborhood busybody and you have a potent mixture leading to totalitarianism and the persecution of the church.

Are you so sure it was the Holy Spirit that filled the churches you attended? The enemy of all righteousness often appears as an angel of light so as to mislead the elect and lead them into error. How do you know which spirit inhabited the church? It's very simple really. Our Lord said that you'd know them by their fruits. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is peace, love and joy. Tell me please, which of these fruits caused you to leave the church?

Are things getting clearer?

it's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi R,

I personally think that here were those within the churches I attended who were trying but bound by the system they submitted too. I did not see the fruits of the spirit manfest in them very much except the last church I attended which exploded.

I think that the church system is largely controled by the Devil and is used by him to prevent the saints of God from maturing into the fulness and stature of Jesus Christ. I think when the Holy Spirit moves those within these edificed to moves past will come out of them and form into a living body of Christ that is fully yielded to His will in all things. Those that are left will turn and persecute these people and fully manifest the spirit of antichrist which is in them even now.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

It depends on your church. From what I understand, Protestants do not have an authoritative leadership because it's not in their dogma. In the Church, however, the clergy have authority through the Keys given to Peter.

 

[biggandyy]

Ask Pete if I can have the keys, I want to make a beer run

 

[Rex]

Ask Pete if I can have the keys, I want to make a beer run

Let Peter keep the keys I've got the "door" ----> and the keys to the car
Lets go have a beer!

And to the topic our leadership is attempting to lead the sheep
out of Egypt, where they themselves have never been, nor do they know the way.

 

[dragonfly]

Since God never actually talked to me

Well, neo, that explains why your posts are so out of touch with His word.

If you seek Him with a genuine desire to know Him, and be obedient to Him, He will speak to you. Acts 5:32. You too, can be a witness!

 

[Angelina]

Quote form Silence in Motion

It depends on your church. From what I understand, Protestants do not have an authoritative leadership because it's not in their dogma. In the Church, however, the clergy have authority through the Keys given to Peter.

You obviously have never been to a Pentecostal Church .... :huh:

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Amen to that.

 

[dragonfly]

This is an excellent quote, re-quoted here from the poster in the choir loft on the previous page.


'If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.'

- Charles Finney -

 

[veteran]

If one will stay in God's Word then they will understand how some Churches are failing to do what Christ commanded, while others are not failing but are still making a stand for Christ Jesus.

Our Lord Jesus warned us about the 'hireling' in John 10, those whom He did not call that place themselves over His people. All these kind of things are tests upon all of us, and God showed us in His Word about them, IF we would listen to Him first. Many don't study for theirselves, so they do not know, but rely on the 'hirelings' instead.

Some attend a Church because the preacher is a good speaker and dresses nice, some because the preacher has a bunch of theological seminary titles on the end of his name, and some because of the old down-home 'give me that ole' time religion' thinking, etc. But what should the real focus be? The Word of God and being shown 'how' to understand It, and 'how' to study It.

Think if you were in charge of teaching in a Church, with what is taught and how it is taught. Would you try to build yourself a castle empire? or a business with stable monetary support so you can look forward to a retirement? or would you want to instruct the congregation so they can go out and produce much fruit through Christ Jesus? Apostle Paul is still one of the best Christian examples, for he refused to take payment (though he was worthy), and he was learned in all of God's Word, and he did not go about setting up an empire for himself.

 

[marksman]

Think if you were in charge of teaching in a Church, with what is taught and how it is taught. Would you try to build yourself a castle empire? or a business with stable monetary support so you can look forward to a retirement? or would you want to instruct the congregation so they can go out and produce much fruit through Christ Jesus? Apostle Paul is still one of the best Christian examples, for he refused to take payment (though he was worthy), and he was learned in all of God's Word, and he did not go about setting up an empire for himself.

It is interesting how the church is divided into the haves and have nots. In western democracies, the church has everything. Expensive buildings, new cars, nice suits, big incomes (comparatively), big staff who are paid wages, flash programmes.

I have been doing a lot of reading lately about the church in places like Africa, Asia and Latin America. They are the have nots. The Gospel to Asia ministry plants a new church every week. After a period of training, they send out evangelists to evangelise untouched villages. They survive on $30 a month. When they start they have to find or build their own mud hut to live in; provide their own food and cook it; and then spend their days talking to the village people. If they are lucky they will have a bike to get around on.

The church is built on the new converts and meets in a mud hut. When there are converts that are sufficiently mature to lead the fellowship, the evangelist moves on to another village and does the same thing again.

No flash buildings, cars, sound equipment, no slick programmes, very little money, no fancy brochures, no big houses, and no positions of superiority.

Which of the two is losing ground? The church in western democracies.

Which of the two is successful in achieving the demand to go into all the world and make disciples? The have nots.

Is there a lesson here?

 

[biggandyy]

Haves and have-nots? So now we have it, envy. Class warfare has reached the church.

 

[revturmoil]

Haves and have-nots? So now we have it, envy. Class warfare has reached the church.

I'm going to ask you again. What are you doing as moderator?
Over 12,000 churches have been burned in the "have not" nations of Northern Africa. Your attitude and your humor stinks.
Your avatar seems to fit your lousy attitude.

 

[marksman]

Haves and have-nots? So now we have it, envy. Class warfare has reached the church.

I am sorry brother but you have missed the point entirely so let me put it another way.

The African and other persecuted churches have proved that you do not need to spend millions on buildings, pay large salaries, have flash programmes, avoid challenge and commitment to change the world.

They have proved that all you need is a commitment to the gospel and a willingness to die for the cause. The rest is a total waste of time but we have yet to learn this fact, mainly due to the fact that power and position feeds the carnal nature of man so servant leadership as Jesus demanded is a non event.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

I agree with you and have seen this time and time again where I minister. Actually, all the stuff tha tthe western church has tends to be a distraction.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[biggandyy]

not4profit, I re-read this thread and still find it as silly as my comments are satirical. A few disgruntled church-goers who haven't gotten their ears tickled the way they like have gotten together and are having a communal slouch-fest.

No big deal, been fun to follow along and watch.