He is a Jew, He is not a Jew: the physical seed of promise

[Ronald David Bruno]

There are unfulfilled covenants with Abraham's descendants.

God told Abraham to leave his country, his family, and his father's house and go "to a land that I will show you" (Gen. 12:1). God then led Abraham to the land that would belong to his descendants forever. (ages)

The land is Canaan, physical real estate that has yet been realized. From the Mediterranean Sea in the west to the Euphrates River in the east, to the north boundary, Hamath, 100 miles north of Damascus (Ezek. 48:1), to Kadesh on the southern boundary, 100 miles south of Jerusalem (v. 28). This land would include not just present day Israel, but Lebanon, the west bank of Jordan, portions of Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

Israel has never occupied anywhere near that amount of property.
They did not forfeit God's covenant either as some may think. GOD'S COVENANT WITH THEM WILL BE REALIZED, after the Great Tribulation, when Christ will rule His Millennial Kingdom in Jerusalem.
This promise was physjcal land, not to be spirituallized as heaven.
Canaan will be occupied by Abrahams descendants.
Besides the descendants and land promised, the world would be blessed by one of His descendants, Jesus.
The Davidic Covenant is also another promise that the Messiah would reign as King physically on his throne in Jerusalem.

"And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Rom. 11:24-27
There are some 15 millions Jews, a remnant of those will be saved, likely 1/3. What are all these Anti-Semitic people so upset about, 5 million Jews and a little land? There is 2.65 billion christians and the entire planet in which we shall inherit.

 

[robert derrick]

It would be very illogical that every descendant of Jacob would reject the Christ today sir. Thousands of them accepted the new covenant rapidly shortly after the new covenant went into effect. Matter of fact you personally believe this yourself when you stated this: But if any of these repent and believe Jesus, then they are grafted in with all others, who are Jews inwardly by faith in the Spirit of Christ.

It would be very illogical that every descendant of Jacob would reject the Christ today sir.

I'm afraid you're still not getting what I am trying to say has happened with ALL descendants of Jacob and Isaac: they no longer exist. They have been done away with. They are an extinct people, even as the modern Greeks are not the ancient Hellenes of old, nor our them that call themselves Jews today are the Jews of the old covenant by Jacob. Their continuing to do so would be the same as modern Greeks and Italians calling themselves Hellenes and Romans of old. God has finished with the physical seed of Abraham by Sarah, and made them to be counted as that of Abraham by Hagar: they are physical brethren with Ishmael's descendants, not Isaac.

That is what Paul is telling us in Galatians 4: the physical seed that rejected and crucified Christ were forever done away as God's peculiar people under the old covenant (Ex 19:5-6), even as the old covenant and law of Moses was done away.

As they were 'translated' into the bondage of Hagar by physical inheritance and unbelief, so now are all believers translated into the kingdom of the Son as the promised people of Abraham and seed of faith. (Rom 9:6-8)

Now, I know that is even more illogical to you, than the suggestion that no physical seed of Abraham as been grafted in again, which is not the case, and you probably think it is impossible, or can't ever happen: how can a physical seed be done away with from the earth, and made that of another mother of bondage, rather than that of the freewoman?

1. God did it. He says so. What is so in His sight is so, not what man sees as logical or illogical, thinks can or cannot happen, or what man wants to call is true and so: anybody can keep on calling certain physical seed on earth to this day the 'Jews', and they can call their nation 'Israel'. But God says that is now a lie (Rev 2:9,3:9), because the very name He had chosen for His people has now been given to another seed and people: the seed and people have changed with God, but the names remain the same: Jacob, Israel, and Jew now refer only to the children of promise by faith, now given to them, because the physical seed rejected that promise, that jesus came to confirm with them:

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. (Rom 15:8)

Israel has not been replaced; but the people called Israel by God have been changed from that of the old covenant with the wicked husbandmen that murdered the Son, to another husbandmen, that render fruits in the new testament (Matthew 21:41).

The old husbandmen of the old covenant have been miserably destroyed from the face of the earth as a seed of people of God by Abraham and Sarah, even as they themselves prophesied by rejecting and killing the Son sent to them for His fruits: same Vineyard, same names, same positions: different people with different production by different means for God:

God has not cast away Israel, but has changed them that are called Israel by God: from a physical seed of promise born of the flesh in the old, to a promised seed of Abraham by faith born of the Spirit in the new:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor 5:17)

Even as for the new creature of salvation in Christ, so for the new children of promise by faith. New creatures and new children of promise, no longer by flesh, and only by faith of Jesus.

I am not saying there is no more physical seed of Abraham, but none of them are anymore that of promise as Isaac, but all are concluded by God through unbelief to be that of Hagar only. And the only way for any of them to be included by God as seed of promise as Isaac, is to not abide in unbelief, but rather to believe Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

 

[robert derrick]

It would be very illogical that every descendant of Jacob would reject the Christ today sir. Thousands of them accepted the new covenant rapidly shortly after the new covenant went into effect. Matter of fact you personally believe this yourself when you stated this: But if any of these repent and believe Jesus, then they are grafted in with all others, who are Jews inwardly by faith in the Spirit of Christ.

Now, to refute the reasoning I gave you, I think it reasonable that you must counter how I read Gal 4, which is the basis I have:

1. Paul in Galatians 4 opens with the fact that they who were servants of bondage: all people whether under law or not, are now made sons of God by faith of Jesus, and no more servants to bondage.

2. He then goes on to challenge those in Christ who would be under the law as the Jews of old:

Scripture declares that at this time, during the new testament of Christ, all the old has been done away and vanished from God's sight (Heb 8:13), and that old covenant and law is now considered by God to be that of Hagar, not of Israel by isaac. They who continue therein are now her children born of the flesh and in bondage, while the believers in the new testament of Jesus are now the children of Sarah the freewoman and of promise, as Isaac.

3. Paul declares that we in Christ who remain free of the law of Moses are the seed of promise as Isaac, while those who remain under or return to the law of the old covenant have made themselves in bondage under Hagar, as Ishmael:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise...So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

It is very clear that those under the law in the old covenant are now called by God the children of the bondwoman Hagar, according to the flesh: But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

This is not just 'spiritual' sight to God, but entirely physical and born of flesh, even as His church and body are not just 'spiritual' in His sight, but is born of members in natural bodies by faith. There is not yet a 'spiritual body' of Christ on earth, because that will not occur with His resurrection. (1 Cor 15:44)

Therefore, Galatians 4 is speaking of the natural bodies, those born of the flesh only, and those also born again of the Spirit by faith: there is no physical seed of promise vs the 'spiritual' seed of promise. That is not Scripture, and also conflicts with Scripture that declares there is only one seed of promise with God at a time. (Gal 3:16)

There is no more children of Abraham and Sarah as Isaac born of the flesh and of promise, they have all been concluded under sin of unbelief (Rom 11:32): I.e. God acknowledging and having covenant with a physical seed of promise is concluded, at an end:

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (Gal 3)

Jesus' was the Deliverer out of Sion, and it was the last time, as John confirms (1 John 2:18), that God would come specifically to any physical seed apart from all other physical seed, to keep an promise to Abraham, which promise by Scripture is now only with them that believe: the promise by faith to the seed and children of fatih, and so children of promise (Rom 9:8).

The promise made to Abraham pertaining to His physical seed accomplished in Isaac is now old and done away for them born of the flesh of Isaac and Jacob.

They all being concluded under sin of unbelief is a conclusion with God pertaining to the physical seed of promise that rejected His Son, and they are now all called by God the children of bondage of Hagar: They who were circumcision of the flesh by the law of the old, made themselves uncircumcision with God by unbelief. Even as there is no more circumcision with God outwardly, so there is no more born of the flesh of Isaac by Sarah with God, and if not of Isaac, then certainly not of Jacob, who was by Isaac:

neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh

And if any in Christ turn to the law as the Jews of old covenant, then they too will become children of bondage by Hagar, even as those that are now by flesh, who call themselves Jews of Israel, and are not.

Even as those of circumcision of flesh made themselves uncircumcision by unbelief, so those who are of circumcision in the spirit, can make themselves uncircumcision by unbelief: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The physical seed of promise that rejected the Son for the last time, are rejected and done away by God to become that of Abraham and Hagar, and the seed of promise by faith can likewise be done away by the same example of unbelief and rejection of faith, to become that of Hagar in bondage: the physical seed that first crucified Christ and the seed of faith that crucify Christ afresh.

 

[robert derrick]

Replacement Theology is simply the belief that the Church replaced Israel, that we are Israel. This has also led to Anti-Semitism, thinking that God has discarded the Jews. He is not finished with Them!

We have not become Jews spiritually. Romans 2:28, 29 is not talking about our salvation, it is a teaching about the salvation of a Jew. It identifies an outward Jew (those who practice the law and circumcision of the flesh) and an inward Jew, (who is circumcised in his heart). Those Jews are valued by God, and saved.
We are neither Jews or Gentiles - the Bible states that in Gal. 3:28.
Btw, Romans 2:17-29 is probably the most avoided passage in the NT and it is primarily because it is misunderstood.

Romans 2:28, 29 is not talking about our salvation, it is a teaching about the salvation of a Jew. It identifies an outward Jew (those who practice the law and circumcision of the flesh) and an inward Jew, (who is circumcised in his heart). Those Jews are valued by God, and saved.
I appreciate your effort here, but you are attempting to explain the new testament Scripture under old testament law: God called upon His people outwardly circumcised to also be inwardly circumcised by faith, which many answered faithfully, while also keeping the law of circumcision outwardly:

Unless you can show otherwise, God never at any time in Scripture of old covenant suggested He was not a Jew after the law, when obeying the law outwardly in circumcision according to the law: By outward circumcision, they certainly were called Jews of covenant, none would have suggested otherwise, no0t even God. In Deut 10, God was prophesying the day, when that inward work would certainly come to pass with a new covenant, so that NOW God declares He is not a Jew, no more a Jew at all, that is outwardly but not inwardly circumcised.

No sir, your argument is not correct, that Scripture will stand alone as a rule of Christ for all people, unless you can prove otherwise, which as I said before, you must show that the uncircumcised by nature does not apply to uncircumcised Gentiles, but somehow only to natural Jews who were all circumcised by nature:

Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law...And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law... (Rom 2:26-27)

This is referring to the Gentiles by nature keeping the things in the law by nature: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law...(2:14-15)

In 2:26-27, Paul returns to the example of the Gentiles by nature that keep the law from their hearts in 2:14-15, in order to shame the Jews by nature and circumcision that do not keep the law:

If you cannot reasonably show that Paul is actually not referring to Gentiles in 26-27, as He so names them in 14-15, then it is proven that the new testament Scripture exceeds that of the old and goes one step better than the old:

Not just be circumcised inwardly as well as outwardly, as spoken in the old, but if not circumcised inwardly: you are not circumcised at all and are no Jew with God, and in addition, if any be circumcised inwardly by faith of Jesus, they are now the Jews of God.

I appreciate you causing me to go ever deeper into the Scripture, which is a blessing; however, to continue on an honest basis, you must focus in on this one thing, in order to honestly reject what I offer as true:

Show Gentiles that do by nature (v 14) are not uncircumcision by nature (v 27).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I will concede and say the "teaching" in Rom. 2:28, 29 is for all Christians. It is a comparison of "formal religion", a religion that is expressed outwardly, but lacks heart, love, fruit with a religion of the heart.
The formal religion shows up not just among the Jews (who Paul was pointing to), but also among Christians. So this teaching is applicable to us - but we aren't transformed Jews. Abraham is the father of faith, but we are not His descendants, the world received a blessing from his seed, Jesus.
Christians can do all the things that makes them look like a Christian "in form", but if their heart is dead, it is an empty religion, not pleasing to God or beneficial to anyone. The Pharisees practiced formal religion.
But Jesus rebuked them as being white-washed tombs, brood of vipers. Their hearts did not express the love of God. They did not produce fruit. This was the point that Paul was trying to make, a godly Jew is one who has been transformed spiritual, given a new heart, that expresses God's love.
And so this teaching is applicable to the Christian, for we are given a new spirit/heart, one that pleases God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

It would be very illogical that every descendant of Jacob would reject the Christ today sir.

I'm afraid you're still not getting what I am trying to say has happened with ALL descendants of Jacob and Isaac: they no longer exist. They have been done away with. They are an extinct people, even as the modern Greeks are not the ancient Hellenes of old, nor our them that call themselves Jews today are the Jews of the old covenant by Jacob. Their continuing to do so would be the same as modern Greeks and Italians calling themselves Hellenes and Romans of old. God has finished with the physical seed of Abraham by Sarah, and made them to be counted as that of Abraham by Hagar: they are physical brethren with Ishmael's descendants, not Isaac.

That is what Paul is telling us in Galatians 4: the physical seed that rejected and crucified Christ were forever done away as God's peculiar people under the old covenant (Ex 19:5-6), even as the old covenant and law of Moses was done away.

As they were 'translated' into the bondage of Hagar by physical inheritance and unbelief, so now are all believers translated into the kingdom of the Son as the promised people of Abraham and seed of faith. (Rom 9:6-8)

No sir, I fully believe that there are many descendants of Jacob still on the earth, and I am fully convinced that some of them are Christians sir. My opinion, your opinion, neither can be documented.

Perhaps you agree with us that as a nation, God took the Kingdom from those of the Law covenant, and made a new nation, with a new covenant. If not that likely ends our conversation about it.

Now, I know that is even more illogical to you, than the suggestion that no physical seed of Abraham as been grafted in again, which is not the case, and you probably think it is impossible, or can't ever happen: how can a physical seed be done away with from the earth, and made that of another mother of bondage, rather than that of the freewoman?

1. God did it. He says so. What is so in His sight is so, not what man sees as logical or illogical, thinks can or cannot happen, or what man wants to call is true and so: anybody can keep on calling certain physical seed on earth to this day the 'Jews', and they can call their nation 'Israel'. But God says that is now a lie (Rev 2:9,3:9), because the very name He had chosen for His people has now been given to another seed and people: the seed and people have changed with God, but the names remain the same: Jacob, Israel, and Jew now refer only to the children of promise by faith, now given to them, because the physical seed rejected that promise, that jesus came to confirm with them:

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers. (Rom 15:8)

Israel has not been replaced; but the people called Israel by God have been changed from that of the old covenant with the wicked husbandmen that murdered the Son, to another husbandmen, that render fruits in the new testament (Matthew 21:41).

The old husbandmen of the old covenant have been miserably destroyed from the face of the earth as a seed of people of God by Abraham and Sarah, even as they themselves prophesied by rejecting and killing the Son sent to them for His fruits: same Vineyard, same names, same positions: different people with different production by different means for God:

God has not cast away Israel, but has changed them that are called Israel by God: from a physical seed of promise born of the flesh in the old, to a promised seed of Abraham by faith born of the Spirit in the new:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor 5:17)

Even as for the new creature of salvation in Christ, so for the new children of promise by faith. New creatures and new children of promise, no longer by flesh, and only by faith of Jesus.

I am not saying there is no more physical seed of Abraham, but none of them are anymore that of promise as Isaac, but all are concluded by God through unbelief to be that of Hagar only. And the only way for any of them to be included by God as seed of promise as Isaac, is to not abide in unbelief, but rather to believe Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Now, to refute the reasoning I gave you, I think it reasonable that you must counter how I read Gal 4, which is the basis I have:

1. Paul in Galatians 4 opens with the fact that they who were servants of bondage: all people whether under law or not, are now made sons of God by faith of Jesus, and no more servants to bondage.

2. He then goes on to challenge those in Christ who would be under the law as the Jews of old:

Scripture declares that at this time, during the new testament of Christ, all the old has been done away and vanished from God's sight (Heb 8:13), and that old covenant and law is now considered by God to be that of Hagar, not of Israel by isaac. They who continue therein are now her children born of the flesh and in bondage, while the believers in the new testament of Jesus are now the children of Sarah the freewoman and of promise, as Isaac.

3. Paul declares that we in Christ who remain free of the law of Moses are the seed of promise as Isaac, while those who remain under or return to the law of the old covenant have made themselves in bondage under Hagar, as Ishmael:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise...So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

It is very clear that those under the law in the old covenant are now called by God the children of the bondwoman Hagar, according to the flesh: But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

This is not just 'spiritual' sight to God, but entirely physical and born of flesh, even as His church and body are not just 'spiritual' in His sight, but is born of members in natural bodies by faith. There is not yet a 'spiritual body' of Christ on earth, because that will not occur with His resurrection. (1 Cor 15:44)

Therefore, Galatians 4 is speaking of the natural bodies, those born of the flesh only, and those also born again of the Spirit by faith: there is no physical seed of promise vs the 'spiritual' seed of promise. That is not Scripture, and also conflicts with Scripture that declares there is only one seed of promise with God at a time. (Gal 3:16)

There is no more children of Abraham and Sarah as Isaac born of the flesh and of promise, they have all been concluded under sin of unbelief (Rom 11:32): I.e. God acknowledging and having covenant with a physical seed of promise is concluded, at an end:

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (Gal 3)

Jesus' was the Deliverer out of Sion, and it was the last time, as John confirms (1 John 2:18), that God would come specifically to any physical seed apart from all other physical seed, to keep an promise to Abraham, which promise by Scripture is now only with them that believe: the promise by faith to the seed and children of fatih, and so children of promise (Rom 9:8).

The promise made to Abraham pertaining to His physical seed accomplished in Isaac is now old and done away for them born of the flesh of Isaac and Jacob.

They all being concluded under sin of unbelief is a conclusion with God pertaining to the physical seed of promise that rejected His Son, and they are now all called by God the children of bondage of Hagar: They who were circumcision of the flesh by the law of the old, made themselves uncircumcision with God by unbelief. Even as there is no more circumcision with God outwardly, so there is no more born of the flesh of Isaac by Sarah with God, and if not of Isaac, then certainly not of Jacob, who was by Isaac:

neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh

And if any in Christ turn to the law as the Jews of old covenant, then they too will become children of bondage by Hagar, even as those that are now by flesh, who call themselves Jews of Israel, and are not.

Even as those of circumcision of flesh made themselves uncircumcision by unbelief, so those who are of circumcision in the spirit, can make themselves uncircumcision by unbelief: Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

The physical seed of promise that rejected the Son for the last time, are rejected and done away by God to become that of Abraham and Hagar, and the seed of promise by faith can likewise be done away by the same example of unbelief and rejection of faith, to become that of Hagar in bondage: the physical seed that first crucified Christ and the seed of faith that crucify Christ afresh.

We can take comfort in the fact that the Bible identifies the faith Bob. It does so beyond a reasonable doubt. We believe that we are right at the last of the last days of this system, if you believe that as well, then there are a large identifiable group of Christians on the earth. That is why when Jesus returns, it is righteous for him to destroy those who do not know God, because all have been given the opportunity to know Him. 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[robert derrick]

To cure yourself of replacement theogony, read Romans 11 and everyplace it uses the word Israel, replace it with the word church.

When it says salvation came to the gentiles (the church) to make Israel jealous, it means that salvation came to the church to make the church Jealous.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And Paul does not say that real Jews are the church now.

He’s telling national and genetic Jews that they are no longer Jewish just because of their nationality, and Jewish religion, but must undergo spiritual transformation and circumcision of their heart, to remain Jewish in the new covenant.

That’s not the same as claiming all gentile believers are spiritually Jewish.

Believers are spiritually the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Abrahamic covenant, but Abraham was a Hebrew, not a Jew - so believers are spiritual Hebrews - not spiritual Jews.

This is further established by the fact that the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah, which absolutely means the Nation of Israel, not so-called spiritual Israel.

Jeremiah 31 - and Hebrews 8 and 9 says Jesus is mediator of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah, and that the new covenant went into effect with the death of Jesus.

To prove that point, Jesus said He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel, and forbade His apostles from going to the gentiles - so the House if Israel in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant is National Israel.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Many that were of Israel were not all Israel (Rom 9:6), but now all Israel is saved by Jesus, the Deliverer out of Sion, who has come in the flesh, and all that believe are born into Israel with their natural bodies. All that abide int he Vine are Israel of God, and so all Israel is saved as promised by God.

The Deliverer out of Sion has come, and therefore the Scripture prophesying all Israel to be saved by Him has been fulfilled.

And the physical seed that were called by Him and name Israel by Him and rejected Him, have been cast away to make room for a better people of God than themselves, even as Saul was removed from being king by God, to make way for David:

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

 

[robert derrick]

To cure yourself of replacement theogony, read Romans 11 and everyplace it uses the word Israel, replace it with the word church.

When it says salvation came to the gentiles (the church) to make Israel jealous, it means that salvation came to the church to make the church Jealous.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And Paul does not say that real Jews are the church now.

He’s telling national and genetic Jews that they are no longer Jewish just because of their nationality, and Jewish religion, but must undergo spiritual transformation and circumcision of their heart, to remain Jewish in the new covenant.

That’s not the same as claiming all gentile believers are spiritually Jewish.

Believers are spiritually the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Abrahamic covenant, but Abraham was a Hebrew, not a Jew - so believers are spiritual Hebrews - not spiritual Jews.

This is further established by the fact that the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah, which absolutely means the Nation of Israel, not so-called spiritual Israel.

Jeremiah 31 - and Hebrews 8 and 9 says Jesus is mediator of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah, and that the new covenant went into effect with the death of Jesus.

To prove that point, Jesus said He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel, and forbade His apostles from going to the gentiles - so the House if Israel in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant is National Israel.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

Only Scripture quoted accurately is unequivocal with God:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

No 'nation' there. That is your insert according to your belief, not God's Word as written.

The name remains the same, but it is the people of God that are changed from physical circumcision to that of the heart in the spirit: they are clearly now the children of God, the children of Abraham, the children of promise and seed as Isaac by Sarah. And yet somehow they are absolutely unequivocally NOT also the children of Israel? And should never ever be called as such?

One gets the since of a near mystical idolizing of this name 'Israel'. The name that God made, not man, and God can give His name He made to whomsoever He pleases and call them as such: A name bestowed by God upon the repentance of Jacob from his own willfulness.

And so to whom would He give His name Israel more than His own children in whom is His seed. Where does it say in Scripture that God would not name Israel any other than a physical seed of flesh on earth: Unto thee and thee only, and they physical seed after thee, shall I ever call Israel?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Rom 9)

Even as they of Israel were not all Israel, so they of the Jews were not all Jews. Now all of Israel and of the Jews are all Israel and Jews made by God, not by will of man.

 

[robert derrick]

To cure yourself of replacement theogony, read Romans 11 and everyplace it uses the word Israel, replace it with the word church.

When it says salvation came to the gentiles (the church) to make Israel jealous, it means that salvation came to the church to make the church Jealous.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And Paul does not say that real Jews are the church now.

He’s telling national and genetic Jews that they are no longer Jewish just because of their nationality, and Jewish religion, but must undergo spiritual transformation and circumcision of their heart, to remain Jewish in the new covenant.

That’s not the same as claiming all gentile believers are spiritually Jewish.

Believers are spiritually the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Abrahamic covenant, but Abraham was a Hebrew, not a Jew - so believers are spiritual Hebrews - not spiritual Jews.

This is further established by the fact that the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah, which absolutely means the Nation of Israel, not so-called spiritual Israel.

Jeremiah 31 - and Hebrews 8 and 9 says Jesus is mediator of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah, and that the new covenant went into effect with the death of Jesus.

To prove that point, Jesus said He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel, and forbade His apostles from going to the gentiles - so the House if Israel in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant is National Israel.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there. (2 Kings 23:27)

God said He would do it, and He has done it: even as God has cast away the house called by His name, so He has cast away the seed that He called by Israel.

The very moment that physical seed of promise rejected and turned from Him for the last time on earth, as confirmed by John (1 John 2:18), when they had His Son crucified, they had become a miserably destroyed seed of people, according to their own prophesy of themselves. (Matthew 21:41)

They have been cast away out of God's sight, and so as a physical seed and people of flesh they are dead to God (Rom 11:15), and no more a peculiar treasure and people to Himself (Ex 19:5).

Instead they have made themselves uncircumcision (Rom 2), uncircumcised children of Abraham and Hagar, in bondage with their new brethren the children of Ishmael. (Gal 4)

They have all been concluded in perpetual sin of unbelief as a physical seed of promise, even as Christ was crucified by them once for all (Rom 6:9-10), and so God is concluded and finished with them pertaining to oath of promise to Abraham, and special covenant with God.

The physical seed of Abraham and Sarah are dead on earth. It exists no more. Not with God, who is the One that raised them up by promise to Abraham, and has cast them away as promised by prophecy.

 

[robert derrick]

To cure yourself of replacement theogony, read Romans 11 and everyplace it uses the word Israel, replace it with the word church.

When it says salvation came to the gentiles (the church) to make Israel jealous, it means that salvation came to the church to make the church Jealous.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And Paul does not say that real Jews are the church now.

He’s telling national and genetic Jews that they are no longer Jewish just because of their nationality, and Jewish religion, but must undergo spiritual transformation and circumcision of their heart, to remain Jewish in the new covenant.

That’s not the same as claiming all gentile believers are spiritually Jewish.

Believers are spiritually the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Abrahamic covenant, but Abraham was a Hebrew, not a Jew - so believers are spiritual Hebrews - not spiritual Jews.

This is further established by the fact that the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah, which absolutely means the Nation of Israel, not so-called spiritual Israel.

Jeremiah 31 - and Hebrews 8 and 9 says Jesus is mediator of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah, and that the new covenant went into effect with the death of Jesus.

To prove that point, Jesus said He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel, and forbade His apostles from going to the gentiles - so the House if Israel in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant is National Israel.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people.

Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

These are now the brethren and people of God the Son, who are not cast off, and yet they are not children of all Israel? God cannot call His people Israel, whom He foreknew?

Israel is not some mystical untouchable name, that only a rebellious physical seed of the flesh can claim, especially since God has cast them off, and they have no claim in Him as His people whatsoever.

God has not cast off His people, but He certainly has cast off them that proved themselves not His people and unworthy of the name He gave them: Israel.

If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (11:14-15)

Scripture states plainly that God has not cast off His people, whom He foreknew, which are now His people conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29), and yet He has cast away them that believed not His Son, and that physical seed is determined by God to be dead to Him: no more the seed of promise of Abraham as Isaac by Sarah, but rather the seed of Hagar as Ishmael.

And if they ever want to live again as God's people, they must repent and believe God's Son, and then they shall have part in all Israel of God, and in His 1st resurrection.

The physical seed of promise of old is cast away as dead. That is fact of Scripture, not opinion of man that says there remains yet still, after crucifying His Son in the flesh by will of flesh, a special place for them in prophecy of the Son to be fulfilled, that God does not.

They are yet beloved of the fathers, who are not their fathers, and they are no longer seed of those fathers, no more than Ishmael, and so they can once again become a living seed of God with His own seed in them by faith of Jesus, without any respect to the flesh nor their natural birth of man.

All physical seed on earth are now one, even as we are all of one blood by natural birth (Acts 17): no physical seed on earth now has any special promise or calling of God above all others born of man: that would make God a respecter of persons after the flesh, which He is not:

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10)

 

[Davy]

This is patently false

Patently you have no response to the Scriptures I gave with the reasoning to them I offered, because you have no idea what to say about them.

And so, you default to standard tradition elsewhere.

No, Enoch is right. You simply don't know enough of your Bible to know the difference between the true Jew and the false Jew.

Just because the majority of the house of Judah (orthodox Jews) still reject Lord Jesus and are against The Gospel like Apostle Paul said, doesn't mean they all are going to stay that way, which Paul showed this in Romans 11:25-32.

Among the seed of Israel are "tares" (Matthew 13). The 'tares' were sown by the devil, they are his, and they hide among the children of Israel. Jude 1 reveals those crept in unawares were ordained to the condemnation of being against Christ. But even Christ's Salvation is open to them IF... they would turn and believe on Jesus Christ.

So just because the majority of the Jews (i.e., house of Judah, the seed of the tribes of Israel that made up the southern "kingdom of Judah" during Solomon's day), are spiritually blinded by God away from The Gospel, that doesn't mean they are the "tares" of Christ's Matthew 13 parable. Our Lord Jesus' parable there shows the "tares" are to be cast into the lake of fire. But Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 the unbelieving Jews that believe once God removes their blindness, are all going to be saved per God's promise (that He gave through His OT prophets).

 

[robert derrick]

To cure yourself of replacement theogony, read Romans 11 and everyplace it uses the word Israel, replace it with the word church.

When it says salvation came to the gentiles (the church) to make Israel jealous, it means that salvation came to the church to make the church Jealous.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief. It means most of the church is ungodly and in unbelief.

Romans 11 starts off with Paul unequivocally stating that God has not cast off His people, the nation of Israel.

And Paul does not say that real Jews are the church now.

He’s telling national and genetic Jews that they are no longer Jewish just because of their nationality, and Jewish religion, but must undergo spiritual transformation and circumcision of their heart, to remain Jewish in the new covenant.

That’s not the same as claiming all gentile believers are spiritually Jewish.

Believers are spiritually the seed of Abraham and heirs to the Abrahamic covenant, but Abraham was a Hebrew, not a Jew - so believers are spiritual Hebrews - not spiritual Jews.

This is further established by the fact that the new covenant is still with the HOUSE of Israel and the HOUSE of Judah, which absolutely means the Nation of Israel, not so-called spiritual Israel.

Jeremiah 31 - and Hebrews 8 and 9 says Jesus is mediator of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah, and that the new covenant went into effect with the death of Jesus.

To prove that point, Jesus said He came ONLY for the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel, and forbade His apostles from going to the gentiles - so the House if Israel in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant is National Israel.

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief.

With your special place of a physical seed on earth, which may is a kind of 'respect of seed', that God no longer has other than His own seed in natural bodies: you therefore apparently misread Scripture in a way to confirm your special seed.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The context is not part of Israel blind, but rather that part of the reason for the blindness of them all is the mystery of the Gentiles to come into Israel, and be the people of God with all them that believe Jesus.

This is confirmed by the fact that all of them were concluded under sin of unbelief even as the Gentiles that knew not God:

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (11:32)

'It' does in now way say 'most of Israel' was cut off: all were cut off, and not all shall be grafted in again.

But all Israel is now saved that abides in the Vine, because all such are saved by the Deliverer out of Sion that has come and fulfilled the promise to Abraham, that in his seed shall all nations be blessed, including the nation that calls itself Israel, and is not.

 

[Davy]

When it says most of Israel is ungodly and cut off from their own olive tree by unbelief.

With your special place of a physical seed on earth, which may is a kind of 'respect of seed', that God no longer has other than His own seed in natural bodies: you therefore apparently misread Scripture in a way to confirm your special seed.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The context is not part of Israel blind, but rather that part of the reason for the blindness of them all is the mystery of the Gentiles to come into Israel, and be the people of God with all them that believe Jesus.

This is confirmed by the fact that all of them were concluded under sin of unbelief even as the Gentiles that knew not God:

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (11:32)

'It' does in now way say 'most of Israel' was cut off: all were cut off, and not all shall be grafted in again.

But all Israel is now saved that abides in the Vine, because all such are saved by the Deliverer out of Sion that has come and fulfilled the promise to Abraham, that in his seed shall all nations be blessed, including the nation that calls itself Israel, and is not.

That's where you are 'adding'... to God's Word instead of staying with what God's Word declares.

When Apostle Paul said their blindness God put upon them is until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' is done, that means they stay blinded away from The Gospel all the way up to Christ's future return. So no, you cannot just say only those Jews in the Vine today represent those Jews Paul was talking about in the Romans 11:25-32 verses. Also, the Isaiah Scripture Paul pointed to about God's promise to save them is for the time of Christ's future 2nd coming, not for Lord Jesus' 1st coming and establishing of His New Covenant.

Zech 12:7-14
7 "The Lord will give victory to the rest of Judah first, before Jerusalem, so that the people of Jerusalem and the royal line of David will not have greater honor than the rest of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God, like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! 9 For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. 11 The sorrow and mourning in Jerusalem on that day will be like the great mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo.

12 "All Israel will mourn, each clan by itself, and with the husbands separate from their wives. The clan of David will mourn alone, as will the clan of Nathan, 13 the clan of Levi, and the clan of Shimei. 14 Each of the surviving clans from Judah will mourn separately, and with the husbands separate from their wives.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

 

[robert derrick]

Replacement Theology has a long history beginning with the Catholic Church. And there are still many lurking around trying to replace Israel with the Church. But as you have pointed out in Romans 11 and other passages, God is NOT done with Israel, and Paul tells Gentile believers not to be high-minded when thinking about the temporary spiritual blindness of Jews and Israel.

No. Gentile believers will never be a part of the 12 tribes of Israel. But God has an eternal plan and purpose for the Church (Jews and Gentiles in one Body) and also an eternal plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel (the twelve tribes).

Jews and Gentiles in one Body

An Erroneous statement, since there is neither Gentile nor Jew in the body of Christ.

There is no Gentile church of Christ, neither is there a Jew church of Christ, nor even a Jew and Gentile church of Christ. Scripture only speaks of the church and body of Christ.

'Jew and Gentile' sets up a comparison and specialty between the two based entirely upon the flesh, which is respect of persons by their carnal seed.

Even as the Lord Himself: I don't care one little bit about the physical heritage of any on earth pertaining to faith of God.

Culture and societal history is fine, but that is as far as it goes with God and His people.

Israel is already redeemed by the Deliverer out of Sion that has already come, and so all Israel is now saved, because all in Israel are saved, and all Israel shall be saved, even if God must cast away them that abide not on the Vine, so that all in Israel are indeed saved and not only professing as such.

All Israel was never saved as a physical seed, because not all believed, and in fact most in Israel did not believe, put perished in the wilderness. Israel is no more a physical seed in man but is the seed of God in natural bodies: that is now physical Israel, not the uncircumcised seed of of any man, especially not that of Abraham and Hagar.

When the disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time, Jesus said it was not for us to know the times and the seasons about things in God's power: He did not say anything about restoring the kingdom to Israel in the flesh, which is what they were talking about.

The kingdom of God is given with pleasure to them that believe Jesus, and the kingdom of God and Heaven is in us with His seed, and shall be the resurrected saints in their spiritual bodies: The reign of Christ and His resurrected saints is not the kingdom restored to any physical seed.

 

[robert derrick]

2 Samuel 5:1 All the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and said, “We are your own flesh and blood. 2 In the past, while Saul was king over us, you were the one who led Israel on their military campaigns. And the Lord said to you, ‘You will shepherd my people Israel, and you will become their ruler.’”

3 When all the elders of Israel had come to King David at Hebron, the king made a covenant with them at Hebron before the Lord, and they anointed David king over Israel.

4 David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years. 5 In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned over all Israel and Judah thirty-three years.

David was a Jew, and Jesus was born of the seed of David?

Religion in Israel is manifested primarily in Judaism, the ethnic religion of the Jewish people. The State of Israel declares itself as a "Jewish and democratic state" and is the only country in the world with a Jewish-majority population (see Jewish state).

Galatians 4:4 But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. (Jesus was born under the Jewish Law)

As usually translated, Paul says that Jesus was “born of the seed of David” meaning that he was a descendant of David. As Paul is our earliest witness to the Jesus movement, writing decades before the gospels, this would seem to cause problems for theories in which Jesus is not a real man.

I don't suppose anywhere here is trying to say Jesus was not a man.

However, I suppose that those who call His people a 'spiritual' Church or a 'spiritual' Israel, as opposed to a physical seed and nation, then it could be said they are denying He has come in the flesh, even as His church and body is not physically on earth as human being.

A 'spiritual' church and body and Israel is not flesh. It does not have a natural body. And likewise, the only 'spiritual' body of Christ to come is in the 1st resurrection, when His natural body of believers are become in an instant a spiritual body of perfected saints. (1 Cor 15:44)

The body of physical believers of Jesus is now the physical Israel and holy nation of Israel and God on earth, and physical seed has nothing to do with it.

The only Christian to ever be born of the seed of David was Jesus, as Scripture plainly says. And since that seede no more exists, but was cast away to that of Hagar, then there never will be another Christian born of the seed of David and of Jacob and of Isaac.

Even as Isaac was the seed and child of promise to Abraham, so are we as Christians (Gal 4:28), not the unbelieving and uncircumcised physical seed of Hagar, who have no hope nor promise of God apart from repentance and believing Jesus (Rom 11:23), just like all the physical seed of one blood by one man on earth, Adam, that abide in unbelief and uncircumcision without God.

 

[Davy]

Jews and Gentiles in one Body

An Erroneous statement, since there is neither Gentile nor Jew in the body of Christ.

There is no Gentile church of Christ, neither is there a Jew church of Christ, nor even a Jew and Gentile church of Christ. Scripture only speaks of the church and body of Christ.

'Jew and Gentile' sets up a comparison and specialty between the two based entirely upon the flesh, which is respect of persons by their carnal seed.

Even as the Lord Himself: I don't care one little bit about the physical heritage of any on earth pertaining to faith of God.

Culture and societal history is fine, but that is as far as it goes with God and His people.

Israel is already redeemed by the Deliverer out of Sion that has already come, and so all Israel is now saved, because all in Israel are saved, and all Israel shall be saved, even if God must cast away them that abide not on the Vine, so that all in Israel are indeed saved and not only professing as such.

All Israel was never saved as a physical seed, because not all believed, and in fact most in Israel did not believe, put perished in the wilderness. Israel is no more a physical seed in man but is the seed of God in natural bodies: that is now physical Israel, not the uncircumcised seed of of any man, especially not that of Abraham and Hagar.

When the disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time, Jesus said it was not for us to know the times and the seasons about things in God's power: He did not say anything about restoring the kingdom to Israel in the flesh, which is what they were talking about.

The kingdom of God is given with pleasure to them that believe Jesus, and the kingdom of God and Heaven is in us with His seed, and shall be the resurrected saints in their spiritual bodies: The reign of Christ and His resurrected saints is not the kingdom restored to any physical seed.

With that kind of thinking, one might as well just believe that TODAY we are seeing the FINISHED Kingdom of Christ right here on earth, WITHOUT Lord Jesus even needing to return!!! (such is the false doctrines of men called Preterism.)

But NO, Christ's Kingdom is NOT established here on earth yet, not without His LITERAL return, for He said His Kingdom is NOT of THIS WORLD, otherwise His servants would fight so that He would not have been delivered up (John 18:36). Yet Lord Jesus SHALL RETURN TO THIS EARTH, as written in Acts 1 and Zechariah 14. His Kingdom will be established here on earth, over all... nations. But that is not yet today.

So here's a little warning brethren about these types who push the lie that Christ's Kingdom is already fulfilled today:

Satan's host plan to establish a 'one world government' beast kingdom over all nations for the end of this present world. Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2 that "man of sin" (actually Satan) is coming to Jerusalem to play God, and over all that is worshipped. That means over ALL RELIGIONS ON EARTH, and that means deceived Christians also friends. Such is the purpose of those who knowingly, or un-knowingly push the Kingdom Now ideas without Lord Jesus' prophesied literal return.

 

[robert derrick]

Replacement Theology is simply the belief that the Church replaced Israel, that we are Israel. This has also led to Anti-Semitism, thinking that God has discarded the Jews. He is not finished with Them!

We have not become Jews spiritually. Romans 2:28, 29 is not talking about our salvation, it is a teaching about the salvation of a Jew. It identifies an outward Jew (those who practice the law and circumcision of the flesh) and an inward Jew, (who is circumcised in his heart). Those Jews are valued by God, and saved.
We are neither Jews or Gentiles - the Bible states that in Gal. 3:28.
Btw, Romans 2:17-29 is probably the most avoided passage in the NT and it is primarily because it is misunderstood.

Replacement Theology is simply the belief that the Church replaced Israel, that we are Israel. This has also led to Anti-Semitism, thinking that God has discarded the Jews. He is not finished with Them!

If replacement theology is Christ replacing Israel, then it is certainly false, because Christ does not replace Israel, but rather changes the citizens thereof from seed of flesh to seed of God only.

And so, all Israel is saved and shall be saved by the Deliverer that has come out of Sion, because all citizens thereof are saved by faith of Jesus, and none in Israel anymore are not of Israel (Rom 9:6), because no physical seed enters in anymore.

This is the fulfillment and hope of the prophets that they searched for all their lives: an Israel of God that is all Israel indeed, and not full of hypocrites and persecutors and faithless, who were rightly called Israel by physical seed and circumcision of law, but no more.

That is no longer the case, thanks be to God by Christ Jesus, who is in fact that Deliverer to come out of Sion.

 

[Davy]

Replacement Theology is simply the belief that the Church replaced Israel, that we are Israel. This has also led to Anti-Semitism, thinking that God has discarded the Jews. He is not finished with Them!

If replacement theology is Christ replacing Israel, then it is certainly false, because Christ does not replace Israel, but rather changes the citizens thereof from seed of flesh to seed of God only.

And so, all Israel is saved and shall be saved by the Deliverer that has come out of Sion, because all citizens thereof are saved by faith of Jesus, and none in Israel anymore are not of Israel (Rom 9:6), because no physical seed enters in anymore.

This is the fulfillment and hope of the prophets that they searched for all their lives: an Israel of God that is all Israel indeed, and not full of hypocrites and persecutors and faithless, who were rightly called Israel by physical seed and circumcision of law, but no more.

That is no longer the case, thanks be to God by Christ Jesus, who is in fact that Deliverer to come out of Sion.

Christ's Church always was about those of Faith, even back in Old Testament times, even back to Abraham. Or have you missed what Paul taught in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 about Abraham's Faith? Maybe the end of John 8 also?

Yet God still chose certain ones to take The Gospel forth and work His Plan. Jesus even showed that His Apostles are promised to sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel! So how does that play out as part of Christ's Church? You obviously don't know yet, but are just pushing the doctrines of men's Preterism.

 

[robert derrick]

That's where you are 'adding'... to God's Word instead of staying with what God's Word declares.

When Apostle Paul said their blindness God put upon them is until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' is done, that means they stay blinded away from The Gospel all the way up to Christ's future return. So no, you cannot just say only those Jews in the Vine today represent those Jews Paul was talking about in the Romans 11:25-32 verses. Also, the Isaiah Scripture Paul pointed to about God's promise to save them is for the time of Christ's future 2nd coming, not for Lord Jesus' 1st coming and establishing of His New Covenant.

Zech 12:7-14
7 "The Lord will give victory to the rest of Judah first, before Jerusalem, so that the people of Jerusalem and the royal line of David will not have greater honor than the rest of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God, like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! 9 For on that day I will begin to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. 11 The sorrow and mourning in Jerusalem on that day will be like the great mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo.

12 "All Israel will mourn, each clan by itself, and with the husbands separate from their wives. The clan of David will mourn alone, as will the clan of Nathan, 13 the clan of Levi, and the clan of Shimei. 14 Each of the surviving clans from Judah will mourn separately, and with the husbands separate from their wives.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

When Apostle Paul said their blindness God put upon them is until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' is done, that means they stay blinded away from The Gospel all the way up to Christ's future return

It appears to you that I am adding to God's Word, based upon your misreading of His Word:

1....that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The Scripture does not say they all shall stay blind until Christ's return.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The apostles themselves were such as grafted in again. All were blinded and cast away (11:32), but not all abide in unbelief, even today.

2. If I am saying on certain ones are doing as Paul said all of them will do, then I am taking away from the Scripture, not adding to?

In any case: All Israel in future pertains to all resurrected believers in Christ: those graft in for the first time, and those grafted in again, without respect to physical seed.

You appear to be saying that no physical seed of Abraham will ever be saved, until Christ's return, which of course is false, if that is what you're saying. So, I don't add nor take away: They who are grafted in before Christ's return shall not prevent them that were grafted in after His resurrection and are dead at that time. (1 Thess 4:15)

Also, Salvation of the Lord born of the seed of David is come to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles therefore are coming in.

To what? What are they coming into?

Well, what are they grafted into and partake of? God's natural olive tree, that the physical seed were broken off to make way for the wild branches. So, what is this natural olive tree? Israel, of course.

And since, the chapter is about breaking off branches and grafting in branches to this olive tree, then it is the casting away out of Israel and bringing into Israel.

And so, the Gentiles are being grafted into the olive tree Israel to be citizens thereof (Eph 2:12), and the physical seed is being grafted in again to return to citizenship thereof, and all are of Christ and all of Israel, without respect of persons nor seed.