He is a Jew, He is not a Jew: the physical seed of promise

[robert derrick]

1. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; And circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit... (Rom 2:28-29)

He is not a Jew, that is one born of the flesh: Not according to God.

He is not circumcised, that is circumcised in the flesh: Not according to God.

He is a Jew, that is born of the Spirit: According to God.

He is circumcised, that is circumcised in the spirit: According to God.

And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

Any who say they are Jews by the flesh are liars, as well as any who say they are circumcised in the flesh, because according to God, they are not.

Only those born of the Spirit and circumcised in the spirit can say they are Jews before God, and not be called liars by God.

2. The children of Israel, and of Isaac, and of Abraham are the seed of promise fulfilled in Christ Jesus:

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26)

The children of God by faith in Jesus are the children of Abraham; the children of promise as Isaac.

The Lord God, who raised up the seed of promise by Abraham and Isaac, called them in Scripture the children of Israel. And the Lord God, who returned them from captivity of Babylon, called them in Scripture the Jews. Now that same Lord and God calls them no more the children of Israel and Jews, but rather calls them liars, if they call themselves such after the flesh.

The Lord God and risen Savior now calls children of Abraham and Jews only those born after the Spirit and circumcised of the heart.

 

[robert derrick]

The children of Israel, and of Isaac, and of Abraham are the seed of promise fulfilled in Christ Jesus:

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26)

The children of God by faith in Jesus are the children of Abraham; the children of promise as Isaac.

(Gal 4:21-31)

The covenant of the Lord made with the physical seed of promise of Abraham is now old and vanished away and now genders to bondage, which is called by Scripture: Hagar, which is earthy mount Sinai, answering to Jerusalem on earth, with her children that still read Moses of old (Acts 15:21) and desire to be under the law of Moses, that was done away in Christ. (2 Cor 3:7-11)

The children of Abraham born after the flesh, that were the physical seed of promise, before they had their own Lord and Christ crucified, have made themselves the children of the bondwoman Hagar, and have been cast out with her:

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

There is no more physical seed of promise on earth with God: They who were such, are now the physical seed of Abraham and Hagar, not of Abraham and Sarah. With God there is no more physical seed of Abraham and Sarah on earth.

At the death of the Lord God on the cross, all things in heaven and in earth changed in an instant. All the old things of the physical seed passed away, and behold, all things of the seed of promise are new and of God. (2 Cor 5:17-18)

Even as Jesus' arms are spread wide upon the cross to welcome any to come to the Father by Him, so also does His crucified arms bar any that would come up another way. (John 10:1)

This includes any physical seed, even as no flesh shall ever be justified in the sight of God (Rom 3:20). God who saw the promised physical seed of old, from that of Isaac, now only sees His Son and the Spirit of Christ in them that believe, which are His children and seed of promise by Abraham and Sarah, even as Isaac.

After the cross in sight of God, all physical seed on the earth that believe not, are Gentiles which know not God (1 Thess 4:5). There is now only one physical seed, which is of Adam, even as one blood. (Acts 17:26)

There is no Jew vs Gentile in the body of Christ, for there are no Gentile members thereof, only children of Abraham and Jews circumcised of the heart. And there is no Jew vs Gentile among the unsaved nations of the earth, for they which say they are Jews are liars, and are only Gentiles without God.

 

[Enoch111]

And there is no Jew vs Gentile among the unsaved nations of the earth...

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[robert derrick]

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

This is patently false

Patently you have no response to the Scriptures I gave with the reasoning to them I offered, because you have no idea what to say about them.

And so, you default to standard tradition elsewhere.

 

[robert derrick]

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

'We brethren' of the Lord Jesus are now the children of Abraham by promise, as Isaac was.

To say there there remains a physical seed of promise of Abraham and Sarah, as Isaac, is therefore to say there now are two seeds of promise in the world, which contradicts the Scripture:

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16)

There has been and always will be only one seed of promise of God at a time: First the physical seed of Abraham and Sarah: Isaac and his physical offspring by Jacob. Now the seed of faith of Abraham by Jesus Christ.

There never were, are not, and never will be two seeds of promise, only one at a time.

The physical seed of promise no longer exists, even as the old covenant made with them has vanished away.

The death of God's Son on the cross was not just a blip in the prophecies of old pertaining to God's seed of promise: it was the end pertaining to the old physical seed, and the beginning pertaining to the new seed of faith in Jesus.

God will not turn exclusively to any physical seed of promise in the future, because that seed ended at the cross. They are now of Hagar, except they repent and abide not still in unbelief, and are grafted in again to become seed of promise by Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

you are also contradicting Scripture

Ok, let's look at the Scriptures you say I am contradicting by the Scriptures I gave. I will offer things different than the default tradition:

For I would not, brethren:

Paul calls Christians brethren.

In Scripture of the old covenant brethren pertained only to the physical seed of promise, who were willingly under the law of Moses.

In the Scripture of the Gospels brethren was being transferred to the seed of faith in Christ as Master (Matthew 23:8), who were willingly following Him as the fulfillment of the prophecy by Moses. (John 6:14)

In the Scripture of the New Testament, after the cross, brethren pertained only the seed of faith in Jesus, who are willingly under the law of Christ, not of Moses. (Matthew 28:10)(John 20:17)

The 'my brethren' of Jesus are His believers and followers only, without any regard to physical seed (Gal 3:28).

God has moved on from a physical seed of promise by birth of Abraham, to the seed of promise with the faith of Abraham.

The brethren of the physical seed of the old covenant are no more, even as the old has vanished away. The new brethren of the seed of promise are the children of God by faith.

The only time during the New Testament, when Scripture applied 'brethren' the physical seed specifically, was when that seed were specifically being preached to by Peter in Acts 2, by Stephen in Acts 7, by Paul in Acts 13, 22, 23, and finally again in 28.

God first had to began with those of Abraham after the flesh, that He might by the Gospel of the cross bring in the new seed of promise to any that believe, which includes any physical seed on earth.

Even as God is not a respecter of persons in the faith of Jesus, neither is he any more a respecter of seed in the promise of Abraham.

Any physical seed calling themselves that of promise, and Jews of God by flesh, are liars (Rev 2:9,3:9). Jesus began to prophecy this change from old to new while among them:

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham...Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God...Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word...Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. (John 8)

All physical seed on earth are of their father the devil, except any repents and believes Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

So what exactly are you trying to prove?

There are no more 'last days' prophesies to fulfill pertaining to the physical seed of promise, where the Lord God will yet once again turn to them exclusively, because there no more is any physical seed of promise in His sight to turn to: they are all concluded in unbelief and are all included as that of Abraham and Hagar: the physical seed of bondage, even as Ishmael. By unbelief, rebellion, and finally crucifixion of the Lord God that promised them, they have made themselves the physical seed of bondage in Hagar, no longer the seed of promise as Isaac:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

The Lord God's coming as Jesus to confirm the promise to the physical seed was rejected. That was to be the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham for them, and that was the last time God would ever come to them exclusively by promise to Abraham.

He sent saviors and prophets abounding to turn them once again to Himself, and when they killed His only Son and final Savior (Matthew 21), they condemned themselves to being no more seed of promise, but a miserable seed of destruction.

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name. (Is 65:15)

No more prophet nor Savior shall be sent by God specially to the physical seed of Abraham and Hagar. When one is sent to them specifically, before the return of the Lord Jesus, they will receive him (John 5:43), even as the rest of the inhabiters of the earth (Rev 13:8): The beast rising up in their midst (13:1), who will make war with the saints of the Lamb (13:7), even as they did from the beginning with Jesus, and then with His witnesses and apostles, until they lost their nation and their land.

He is not a Jew that is one outwardly, and he is not a promised seed that is one of the flesh.

There is one seed outwardly and of the flesh by Abraham, but no more of Sarah as Isaac with promise, but now of Hagar as Ishmael with bondage.

The world and Christians can believe special status with God remaining to a physical seed on earth, but God does not.

 

[Robert Gwin]

1. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; And circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit... (Rom 2:28-29)

He is not a Jew, that is one born of the flesh: Not according to God.

He is not circumcised, that is circumcised in the flesh: Not according to God.

He is a Jew, that is born of the Spirit: According to God.

He is circumcised, that is circumcised in the spirit: According to God.

And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

Any who say they are Jews by the flesh are liars, as well as any who say they are circumcised in the flesh, because according to God, they are not.

Only those born of the Spirit and circumcised in the spirit can say they are Jews before God, and not be called liars by God.

2. The children of Israel, and of Isaac, and of Abraham are the seed of promise fulfilled in Christ Jesus:

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26)

The children of God by faith in Jesus are the children of Abraham; the children of promise as Isaac.

The Lord God, who raised up the seed of promise by Abraham and Isaac, called them in Scripture the children of Israel. And the Lord God, who returned them from captivity of Babylon, called them in Scripture the Jews. Now that same Lord and God calls them no more the children of Israel and Jews, but rather calls them liars, if they call themselves such after the flesh.

The Lord God and risen Savior now calls children of Abraham and Jews only those born after the Spirit and circumcised of the heart.

Those of the new covenant, are spiritual Israelites Bob, called the Israel of God at Gal 6:16. Not all of them are natural Jews born into the sons of Jacob, but God has selected them from all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations Rev 5:9. They are bought out from among mankind for a particular purpose, which is given in verse 10

 

[DPMartin]

1. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; And circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit... (Rom 2:28-29)

He is not a Jew, that is one born of the flesh: Not according to God.

He is not circumcised, that is circumcised in the flesh: Not according to God.

He is a Jew, that is born of the Spirit: According to God.

He is circumcised, that is circumcised in the spirit: According to God.

And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. (Rev 2:9, 3:9)

Any who say they are Jews by the flesh are liars, as well as any who say they are circumcised in the flesh, because according to God, they are not.

Only those born of the Spirit and circumcised in the spirit can say they are Jews before God, and not be called liars by God.

2. The children of Israel, and of Isaac, and of Abraham are the seed of promise fulfilled in Christ Jesus:

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Gal 3:7)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. (Gal 4:28)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:26)

The children of God by faith in Jesus are the children of Abraham; the children of promise as Isaac.

The Lord God, who raised up the seed of promise by Abraham and Isaac, called them in Scripture the children of Israel. And the Lord God, who returned them from captivity of Babylon, called them in Scripture the Jews. Now that same Lord and God calls them no more the children of Israel and Jews, but rather calls them liars, if they call themselves such after the flesh.

The Lord God and risen Savior now calls children of Abraham and Jews only those born after the Spirit and circumcised of the heart.

i would suspect that applies to those who call themselves christain and have churches that are definitely of the same you quoted in Rev 2

 

[robert derrick]

Those of the new covenant, are spiritual Israelites Bob, called the Israel of God at Gal 6:16. Not all of them are natural Jews born into the sons of Jacob, but God has selected them from all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations Rev 5:9. They are bought out from among mankind for a particular purpose, which is given in verse 10

At the outset, I truly do thank anyone who wants to try and overthrow my thinking on this, for I will either be corrected and learn better or more confirmed, as I endeavor to respond:

However, I believe it is first necessary to refute the basis for the theory; otherwise, I will take it as correct without objection, and so will argue any prophesy of Scripture from it:
1. He is not a Jew that is one outwardly: By a literal reading therefore, there are no more outward Jews with God. They that were by covenant before are not now, even as that covenant has been done and away and vanished. And they who continue to say they are, called liars by Jesus.

Are there still remaining Jews that are outward? He is a Jew that is one outwardly? Are there any that say they are Jews and are liars? Who are they that say they are Jews and are not lying:

He is a Jew that is one inwardly, circumcised with the heart in the Spirit. The only Jews called as such by God after the cross are those born of His Spirit and inwardly circumcised. It is no longer possible to have inward circumcision of heart without faith in Jesus, as was exhorted by God in old prophesy of Scripture. (Jerem 4:4)

Is he a Jew that is one inwardly?

2. The brethren of the Lord are only they who believe and follow Him. The physical seed of Abraham and Sarah were called the brethren: the whole house of Israel (Lev 10:6) in a covenant with God, that no longer exists with God, and so they are no longer brethren with God.

3. The physical seed that was of promise by Abraham and Sarah, as Isaac, are no longer a seed of promise by Sarah, but rather have made themselves a seed of bondage by Hagar. They who were the physical seed of promise as Isaac, are now the physical seed of bondage as Ishmael.

With these I conclude there is no more physical seed of promise with God, but all physical seed are one with one corrupted blood from Adam (Acts 17), and all are forever equally commanded to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If any of these reasonings of Scripture are incorrect, then my whole argument against old prophecies being fulfilled for a particular physical seed of promise falls apart.

As to your point, it is not Scriptural to speak of a 'spiritual' seed of God:

In Scripture there is no 'spiritual' Israelite nor Jew nor chosen people of promise separate from the physical bodies and souls of the children of Israel and of God. 'Spiritual' Israelite and seed of promise is not named in Scripture, but is only named by those who need to have a physical seed of promise and a spiritual seed of promise, in order to keep an interpretation of prophesy that requires both in the world at the same time.

1. The old covenant was made with a physical seed and people, and so is the new. We are born by and in the spirit, and we are also 'spiritual', if we keep His Word and walk in His Spirit, but we not 'spiritual' children only.

Our physical bodies are His temple and church, though yet mortal and corrupt in flesh, and the only time there will be a spiritual body, is in the resurrection (1 Cor 15:44). So long as we remain in our natural bodies, then the body of Christ is a natural body, by the indwelling Spirit. The body of Christ is not a 'spiritual' body residing within and separate from the natural body of believers.

The physical seed was called the house of Israel and of Jacob and the children of Israel (Ex 16:31, 19:3), they are also referred to as souls in the house of Jacob (Gen 46:27), and so that house is built of a physical people that are circumcised inwardly by God: souls saved by God.

There is no 'spiritual' seed of God that is separate from the souls and people of God.

2. Claiming a physical seed of promise today vs. a 'spiritual' seed of promise allows for 2 seeds of promise in the world: one entirely physical and the other bodily by the Spirit. Which is also contrary to Scripture. (Gal 3:16)

There has been, there is, and there ever shall be only one seed of promise and children of God at a time. And that seed now is them in Christ Jesus, which is the promised seed of God, which promise was made to Abraham over 400 years before the law of Moses, which was introduced due to the transgressions of the physical seed at the mount: 1st when they drew back from His person on the mount (Ex 20:18-19), and then when they went immediately into idolatry, while Moses was with God in the mount.

That seed of promise to Abraham, as Isaac, was therefore to come after the law was to be done away:

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...

The promised seed made to Abraham was not to come into the world until after the law, which had only been added due to the transgressions of the physical seed that made them unworthy to inherit that promise, and they have forever done away with their physical lineage of Abraham by Sarah, when they crucified the Lord.

 

[robert derrick]

i would suspect that applies to those who call themselves christain and have churches that are definitely of the same you quoted in Rev 2

As in say they are Christian and are not?

Certainly, and the Lord knows them that are his, and them that are lying to Him, to others, and probably to themselves as well, even as those who call themselves Jews by physical birth.

Though it's not up to us to make that judgment, we are commanded not to keep company with them that profess godliness but in works openly deny God.

 

[DPMartin]

As in say they are Christian and are not?

Certainly, and the Lord knows them that are his, and them that are lying to Him, to others, and probably to themselves as well, even as those who call themselves Jews by physical birth.

Though it's not up to us to make that judgment, we are commanded not to keep company with them that profess godliness but in works openly deny God.

ok then wouldn't that be in your own judgement though.
if one has a job in this world one keeps company with all types. i do believe Jesus was accused of the same, wasn't He?

though i understand your point, but consider how many here might be as you say.

 

[robert derrick]

ok then wouldn't that be in your own judgement though.
if one has a job in this world one keeps company with all types. i do believe Jesus was accused of the same, wasn't He?

though i understand your point, but consider how many here might be as you say.

Our 'own judgment' is when we have no Scriptural basis for it, and so our judgment is personal and usually wrong. We are however told by Jesus to judge righteous judgment, which is that which God judges according to His Word.

If we judge that a brother or sister is entered into open riotous living, which would be obviously out in the open, then we are commanded to not have Christian fellowship[ with them, except they repent, and then we are commanded to restore them openly without finding fault.

It is understood not to keep company with open hypocrites in company of the faith. Nothing is said about being accusative, nor combative, nor discourteous even, only not to partake of their sin by partaking of their company as good soldiers in Christ.

And Paul was corrected by God, when he first wrote the the Corinthians to do as you suggest and not 'get around' any fornicators at all, which was a hold over of his Jewish upbringing, not to 'company' or so much as touch the heathen:

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation. (Acts 10)

 

[robert derrick]

ok then wouldn't that be in your own judgement though.
if one has a job in this world one keeps company with all types. i do believe Jesus was accused of the same, wasn't He?

though i understand your point, but consider how many here might be as you say.

Any comment on my original posts?

 

[Taken]

Any comment on my original posts?

Hi robert~

Circumcision has always Spiritually been about the Heart.
Years of bondage, records confiscated, hidden, destroyed, Gentiles influences, I consider perhaps Jews did not know what was "hinted" or kept "secret".
Traditions seems to be kept more readily than Script among Jews, subject to illiteracy, as was much of the whole world.
Aside from Sabbaths, Feast days, the Tradition Foreskin circumcision seemingly remained an ongoing tradition among Jews.
Likely more leaning toward the Highlight of the Covenant, between God and the Jews, of the Jews being "separated" unto God. (And certainly an Awe piece of knowledge they received from the LORD)

Deut 10;
[15] Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them , even you above all people, as it is this day.

But here:
Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

"Foreskin of the HEART"? Seems like an odd statement...yet reflection ... And Paul's Preaching shows us:
Foreskin circumcision is Physical performed by man and Heart Circumcision is performed by the Lord. (Cutting off the mans natural spirit (natural truth) in his heart, giving the man a new spirit (born again), new heart, and (new truth) in his heart, via Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH.

Ezek 18:
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart [/B] and a new spirit:[/B] for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezek 36:
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Quick comment on stiffnecked.
Gods named called to Jewsish teachers who; complained of the difficultly of teaching with "only words", but with "nothing to see."
(Men could not SEE God).
But God had taught, He foretells, they should wait for what He foretold to come to pass, that they then would have their proof, He is He.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[robert derrick]

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Part of the reason they are blind. Not they are blind in part. All of Israel of God are saved believers, none of the children of Israel are blind.

There is no more physical seed of promise with God is the key for unlocking all last days prophesy of Scripture. With this key, all things become clear in prophesy without any need for ignoring, twisting, reading nonsense into, needing long complicated explanations for, nor believing Scriptures conflict with one another:

The fulness of the Gentiles has now become the fullness of the nations: which include the nation calling itself Israel, and is not, but is lying to God and itself, even as they say they are Jews of God.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. (John 4)

If the physical seed were still of promise, then salvation would be of them from God. It was, and now it is not. Salvation of God is of the Jews that are inwardly in the Spirit: These are the promised seed and Jews of God.

All the self-ruled nations without God will tread the outer court of God's temple, until the time of their end with the Lord's return and reign upon earth, which is now His footstool and court to His temple, which now is in heaven (Rev 11:19), and His throne in which he sits. (As do we all in Christ sit in His heavenly places in His temple)

The nation calling itself Israel and that of the Jews, and are liars, will be one of many nations to believe the beast and make war with the followers of the Lamb. They will also observe a mockery of Purim with the death of the two witnesses, giving presents to one antoher, even as they now observe a mockery of God's covenant, called the Jews' religion.

 

[robert derrick]

Hi robert~

Circumcision has always Spiritually been about the Heart.
Years of bondage, records confiscated, hidden, destroyed, Gentiles influences, I consider perhaps Jews did not know what was "hinted" or kept "secret".
Traditions seems to be kept more readily than Script among Jews, subject to illiteracy, as was much of the whole world.
Aside from Sabbaths, Feast days, the Tradition Foreskin circumcision seemingly remained an ongoing tradition among Jews.
Likely more leaning toward the Highlight of the Covenant, between God and the Jews, of the Jews being "separated" unto God. (And certainly an Awe piece of knowledge they received from the LORD)

Deut 10;
[15] Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them , even you above all people, as it is this day.

But here:
Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

"Foreskin of the HEART"? Seems like an odd statement...yet reflection ... And Paul's Preaching shows us:
Foreskin circumcision is Physical performed by man and Heart Circumcision is performed by the Lord. (Cutting off the mans natural spirit (natural truth) in his heart, giving the man a new spirit (born again), new heart, and (new truth) in his heart, via Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH.

Ezek 18:
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart [/B] and a new spirit:[/B] for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezek 36:
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Quick comment on stiffnecked.
Gods named called to Jewsish teachers who; complained of the difficultly of teaching with "only words", but with "nothing to see."
(Men could not SEE God).
But God had taught, He foretells, they should wait for what He foretold to come to pass, that they then would have their proof, He is He.

God Bless,
Taken

Aside from Sabbaths, Feast days, the Tradition Foreskin circumcision seemingly remained an ongoing tradition among Jews.

It's called by God the Jews' religion (Gal 1:13-14), which they made for themselves in trying to keep the old covenant alive for them.

The law of Moses, which was made after a carnal commandment, was only given by God after they drew back from Him. The Lord in Person on the mount was ready at that time with the physical seed of Abraham to fulfill His promise to Abraham, but they drew back. God had originally given His 10 commandments from the smoke of the fire, speaking to all the people, as the only guide to them, as He would make them His peculiar people and nation of priests over all people of the earth. (Ex 19)

When they drew back from Him and wouldn't hear His voice for themselves, God had to change the plan of promise, and give them a law to obey, until the time of reformation would come with the true seed of promise by Christ Jesus (Heb 9:10), after the doing away with the law at the cross. (Gal 3:19)

The physical seed as a nation of promise removed themselves from that promise way back at the mount, when they removed themselves from God speaking to them each personally, unlike Abraham who heard Him by voice of mouth and did not draw back from Him.

 

[robert derrick]

Hi robert~

Circumcision has always Spiritually been about the Heart.
Years of bondage, records confiscated, hidden, destroyed, Gentiles influences, I consider perhaps Jews did not know what was "hinted" or kept "secret".
Traditions seems to be kept more readily than Script among Jews, subject to illiteracy, as was much of the whole world.
Aside from Sabbaths, Feast days, the Tradition Foreskin circumcision seemingly remained an ongoing tradition among Jews.
Likely more leaning toward the Highlight of the Covenant, between God and the Jews, of the Jews being "separated" unto God. (And certainly an Awe piece of knowledge they received from the LORD)

Deut 10;
[15] Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them , even you above all people, as it is this day.

But here:
Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

"Foreskin of the HEART"? Seems like an odd statement...yet reflection ... And Paul's Preaching shows us:
Foreskin circumcision is Physical performed by man and Heart Circumcision is performed by the Lord. (Cutting off the mans natural spirit (natural truth) in his heart, giving the man a new spirit (born again), new heart, and (new truth) in his heart, via Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH.

Ezek 18:
[31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart [/B] and a new spirit:[/B] for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezek 36:
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Quick comment on stiffnecked.
Gods named called to Jewsish teachers who; complained of the difficultly of teaching with "only words", but with "nothing to see."
(Men could not SEE God).
But God had taught, He foretells, they should wait for what He foretold to come to pass, that they then would have their proof, He is He.

God Bless,
Taken

The new covenant is with the house of Israel, which is now the house of God built up by Christ Jesus.

Thomas complained of nothing to see. The proof that God is God and Jesus is God is His Word born in us. We don't need to see with physical eyes, because we see and know Him that is true with eyes from the heart:

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5)

 

[Taken]

The new covenant is with the house of Israel, which is now the house of God built up by Christ Jesus.

Thomas complained of nothing to see. The proof that God is God and Jesus is God is His Word born in us. We don't need to see with physical eyes, because we see and know Him that is true with eyes from the heart:

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5)

Just adding to comment about circumcision.
Circumcision of the Heart, was not something new in the NT.

 

[robert derrick]

This is patently false and you are also contradicting Scripture. So what exactly are you trying to prove?

ROMANS 11: THE SALVATION OF ISRAEL IN THE FUTURE
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

And so all Israel is now saved: all members of the body of Christ are saved: the children of Abraham as Isaac, and so the children of Israel: the children of God by Christ Jesus.

There are none in Israel nor any children of Abraham as Isaac not saved: they are all children of God.

Jacob no more is of physical seed, but only of seed of faith, and all such have been turned away from ungodliness by Jesus the Deliverer.

No physical seed anymore is born of Jacob, neither of Isaac, neither of Abraham as Isaac: of Abraham and Sarah by promise of God. Now they are only born of the seed of bondage by Hagar as Ishmael.