"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[Zachary]

Zachary: There are dozens of NT verses that threaten loss of salvation!

That is simply not the case.

Here's a simple explanation of who our fair and just God is:

Can a BAC get away with being a habitual sinner (and dies w/o repentance)
... and go to heaven
WHILE
a non-believer CANNOT get away with being a habitual sinner (and dies w/o repentance)
... and goes to hell?

 

[Enoch111]

Can a BAC get away with being a habitual sinner (and dies w/o repentance)
... and goes to heaven

To answer your question:

1. A habitual sinner is NOT a born-again believer but a pretender. So unless that person genuinely repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, he or she remains unsaved, and will not enter Heaven.

2. Born again believers can and do sin momentarily or temporarily (either knowingly or ignorantly), and God demands that they deal with their present sins through confession and repentance (1 John). Their past sins were forgiven when they turned to God and Christ for the forgiveness of sins. But present sins are not automatically forgiven.

3. If a born-again believer persists in sinning, there is chastisement from God and also conviction by the Holy Spirit. There may also be loss of fellowship with that person's church. But if sins are not dealt with there can be (1) physical sickness, (2) physical weakness or debility, and (3) premature physical death. This does not lead to loss of salvation (which is a free gift of God) but loss of rewards.

4. In view of this Paul warns believer's to examine themselves and deal with their sins BEFORE they partake of the Lord's Supper:
1 CORINTHIANS 11: LET A MAN EXAMINE HIMSELF
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [CONDEMNATION] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [DIE PREMATURELY].
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

The word "damnation" in verse 29 should have been "condemnation" because verse 32 tells the believer that he will not be condemned with the [unsaved] world to Hell. But there are consequences for failure to deal with present sins.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is a horrendously terrible statement ... it is false doctrine of the highest magnitude!

1 John 1:9 was written to believers in the churches.

Many BACs use 1 John 1:9 as a proper and true encouragement
to believers who need to understand that ...
Jesus will cleanse away a particular sin from those
who ask the Lord for forgiveness and sincerely REPENT
(which means to turn away from that sin, endeavoring to never repeat it again).

How many times does Jesus have to take away your sin and make you born again? How many times does He have to die? And in Him there is no sin. 1 John 3:5. Why? Because we have been cleansed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. What more is there to confess?

The real encouragement comes from being born again with a nature that doesn't want to sin. Jesus does it all. We don't have to try to keep His commandments with a sin nature that is opposed to the law. We just keep them. No more struggle. That is the good news. We are no longer separated from God by SIN. But first we must repent. Acts 2:38. How many times do we have to be baptized? Once. And that is how many times we need to repent to be filled with the Holy Spirit who does the rest.

The defeatism of modern theology is a bunch of doctrines of demons. The truth is foolishness to the natural man who still has no idea of the awesome POWER of God to create in us a new nature. Did someone forget that God created EVERYTHING out of nothing? The infilling of the Holy Spirit is REAL, but many in the Church believe it is just theology, and not a real,tangible experience. As long as you believe Jesus will save you, you have the Holy Spirit - Zap! It doesn't work that way. Our repentance must be true from a broken and contrite heart. Not just for a ticket to heaven.

 

[HIM]

All verses below are from the NKJV.

“… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)

“… whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God …” (1 John 3:10)

“He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)

“In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
whoever does not practice righteousness is NOT of God,
NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.” (1 John 3:10)

“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)

“… (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)

“… slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19)

God does NOT practice righteousness for BACs.
BACs must do the practicing of righteousness for themselves.

From the verses above, do we agree?
God only invites into heaven …
those who have a standing of righteousness before Him,
those whom He considers righteous.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

"Even as" is a direct comparison to Jesus. How was Jesus righteous?

 

[HIM]

Before coming to Christ, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Thus their righteousness is as filthy rags.

Also, read #2 to catch up.

Hi Charismatic Lady,
All have sinned is in the past tense, but the second part in which you have translated fallen is incorrect. That is actually in the present tense my friend.

So that begs the question; what is the difference between sinning and falling short of the glory of God?

Oh btw I am right there with ya, Defeatism is a doctrine of the devil. One of my favorite verses involves the question. "Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" For in Him we are more than conquers.

We are to be a people of Faith not doubt.

 

[HIM]

Actually, Christ comes to live inside of the Born Again Christian and begins to live His life in us and through us (Galatians 2:20).

It is when we begin again to live our own lives that we get into trouble.

If I am living my life, I am going to sin; because I am a sinful human being (1 John 1:8).

But if Christ is living His life in me and through me, the life that will be lived out will be in fulfillment of the righteousness of the law (Romans 8:4)....the life lived in me and through me will be one of love (Romans 5:5); which is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

Hello Just by Faith,
Is there a difference in how we should understand nouns and verbs?

 

[HIM]

True, but when Christ abides in us, we will naturally do good deeds by our new nature. And our new nature doesn't willfully sin. So if we willfully commit sins of lawlessness, that is a sign that we are NOT born again, and do not belong to Christ.

Or that we have fallen away

 

[HIM]

That is simply not the case. Salvation includes (1) the supernatural New Birth (regeneration), (2) the gift of the Holy Spirit, (3) the gift of eternal life, (4) justification by grace through faith, (5) the forgiveness of sins, (6) a new heart and a new spirit, (7) a new creature in Christ, (8) predestination for perfection and glorification, (9) the impossibility of being separated from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus, (10) the impossibility of being plucked out of the Father's hand, (11) the indwelling of God Himself, and (12) the assurance of the knowledge of salvation.

Not so Enoch111,
If we are sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sin , just a fearful looking forward of judgement and fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversaries. Because in this state we have counted the Blood of the Covenant where in we were sanctified an unholy thing and have done despite unto the Spirit of Grace. It will be a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[07-07-07]

If you dream about sinning, you have sinned; however I don't believe that such a sin is willful; because it is all according to your subconscious mind.

Likewise, if you see a beautiful woman and are attracted to her when she is not your wife, you have sinned (Matthew 5:27-30). However, I don't think that you have any control over who you might be attracted to. That is not a willful sin.



1 John 1:9 is for unintentional sins.

There's a difference between temptation and sin. What you are citing here is temptation. Satan can plant thoughts, but we can put him to flight with the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

 

[07-07-07]

So answer me this-- are you perfect in thought word and deed or do you still sin, even if only occasionally ? We go no further until you directly answer this direct request.

We cannot control all of our thoughts; if so, we would never be tempted; and if never tempted, how can we be over comers?

 

[amigo de christo]

You are as confused as ever. The Christians righteousness is not really his or her own, and had nothing to do with filthy rags.

When God save a sinner, He removes those filthy rags and replaces them with the robe of Christ's righteousness. Therefore every believer is deemed to be as righteous as Christ. Then when Christians walk "in the Spirit" it is GOD which worketh in you both will and to do of His good pleasure. Thus those who practice righteousness are indeed righteous.

Correct indeed my friend . We cannot take any credit for being made righteous , nor can we take credit for living righteously .
FOR IT is the SPIRIT of GOD that works in us that which is well pleasing in His sight .
This too proves who we belong too . For as some of you all might know i used to have what is known as dead faith .
OH i could tell folks that JESUS is savoir , however i lived in the flesh , loving my sin , getting drunk , partying
chasing all sorts of sins and doing much evil . Still i could do some good things like help out one in need ,
YET i am telling us that i did not know Christ . For my works , my fruits proved who i belonged too , satan .
I was heavily deceived , just as many are today . For when our churches , our leaders preach
a gospel that is sin accepting , and calls evil good and good evil , creating another jesus , if that becomes the jesus we run too .
RED FLAG , its not JESUS its just a false image of Him that is being entertained by our own mind .
Many are running to the wrong jesus and this is a fact . Some run to the prosperity gospel , some to the emergent
To the god which feeds the flesh . Thus they are still lost , still serving diverse sins , yet feeling saved
cause they get told GOD is fine with the way you are , when in truth God will never accept sin .
The true GOD will convert the heart . He wont accept the sin nor the sinner who clings to thier love of thier sin .
NO , HE changes the heart of the sinner and puts within a whole new desire . YE shall know them by their fruits .
IF they come to the true JESUS we see a true conversion . As HE did for me . Flipped me right around
put my direction right into seeking HIM and learning of HIM . And from loving sin i went to hating sin . The vile evils
of even my own flesh became as death unto me .

 

[amigo de christo]

There's a difference between temptation and sin. What you are citing here is temptation. Satan can plant thoughts, but we can put him to flight with the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

Correct my friend . This is what is known as the sin which sins . OUr flesh is gonna continue to produce
lustful and wicked thoughts . HOWEVER as you made clear , Let us not entertain said thoughts
lest they get acted out . And we have all we need to fight against the sin nature of our own flesh .
Submit to GOD , resist the devil and HE will flee . But so long as we live in these fleshly bodies
prepare to be fighting , cause the flesh will always be contrary to the SPIRIT .
I have found that the JOY of the LORD is my strength . The more prayed up we are , the more our focus is upon Him
the less time we have to enter into what i call idle time . The joy of the LORD is our strength . The lambs must be stirring one another
up and exhorting one another daily .

 

[amigo de christo]

We cannot control all of our thoughts; if so, we would never be tempted; and if never tempted, how can we be over comers?

The sin that sins will always be present within us , for we live in fleshly bodies .
We are in a die daily battle . An we have all we need to overcome the flesh . For even when from the flesh pops a wicked thought into my head , just as quickly the Spirit would make us aware and the very evil of it grieves us within .
Maybe i can give an example to make this easier to understand .
Say a very seductive and not so fully clothed woman does approach . The flesh pops lust into your mind as it desires to look .
At the same time the Spirit would alert and remind , LOOK NOT , lust not after her . Which one we gonna heed .
Before knowing Christ me and my flesh were in agreement , it said look and my heart said YOU BET .
But after knowing Christ and having now the SPIRIT , the flesh says LOOK , but my heart by the Spirit says ,NOPE .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Correct my friend . This is what is known as the sin which sins . OUr flesh is gonna continue to produce
lustful and wicked thoughts . HOWEVER as you made clear , Let us not entertain said thoughts
lest they get acted out . And we have all we need to fight against the sin nature of our own flesh .
Submit to GOD , resist the devil and HE will flee . But so long as we live in these fleshly bodies
prepare to be fighting , cause the flesh will always be contrary to the SPIRIT .
I have found that the JOY of the LORD is my strength . The more prayed up we are , the more our focus is upon Him
the less time we have to enter into what i call idle time . The joy of the LORD is our strength . The lambs must be stirring one another
up and exhorting one another daily .

Oh the glorious Lord be praised. Brother is on the move.
Sing those praises out. Let us focus on the biblical Lord Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you dream about sinning, you have sinned; however I don't believe that such a sin is willful; because it is all according to your subconscious mind.

Likewise, if you see a beautiful woman and are attracted to her when she is not your wife, you have sinned (Matthew 5:27-30). However, I don't think that you have any control over who you might be attracted to. That is not a willful sin.



1 John 1:9 is for unintentional sins.

Well this ends the conversation. You make up rules to justify what you can and cannot call willful sins. We have reached the point of worthlessness. I cannot argue against your opinions. They are yours and have no place in SCripture arguments. The bible teaches against you but you are too lazy to find out why!

Have the last word if you wish but we are done.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ron, 1 John 1:9 is to BECOME a Christian. We are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, including separation from the old sin nature, and He creates in us a new nature that partakes of the divine nature of Christ. Did Christ sin? It doesn't need to be repeated anymore than Acts 2:38 needs to be repeated. It is how we receive the Holy Spirit and are born again. How many times do you need baptism? Just once! Then go through the steps to maturity in fruit. Sin has already been taken away. The Spirit freed us from sin.

The problem with the natural man is they only believe what they experience, and lower the power of God down to the human level. They have no idea of how powerful our God is. He created us! And He can certainly re-create us.

Here is a verse that the unbelief of the natural man shoves aside as impossible, but the truly born again KNOW it is true:

John 14:
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

Sorry but the Word of God as it is written calls you a very big liar! But folks like you will not look into it but live in some cloud of deception thinking you never yield back to teh old man for even a microsecond.

If ytou make it to heaven you will be stunned to see the myriads of saints who satumbled their way into heaven. Because it seems it will only be then can you peel your eyes away from what you do to gavze upon what He accomplished and did in your life and trhe lives of millions you refuse to believe are saved.

YOu remind me of the Pharisee in this account:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

YOu have been taught a lie and failed to begin to understand teh depths of gods love and the height that Jesus death and resaurrection accomplished.

Just know this facdt- no one goes to hell because they are a sinner! they go to hell because they did ot believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus to pay for ALL (not most) their sins.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Some of us are folks who quote NT verses ... and believe them!

There are dozens of NT verses that threaten loss of salvation!
Surely, they are one of God's methods of chastising BACs
who are sinning habitually (without repentance).

Well then I await to see one that actually shows that God will take a chilkd and make him a child of the devil again. Show me where eternal life given is not.

Show me where someone can take you out of Jesus hands.

Sending a person to hell is not chastisement- but divine justice!

Show me where it says that the blood of Jesus does not forigve all sin.

show me where one can get saved again and again and again.

Show me one where it shows God saves someone whoim He knows He will unsave later on!

 

[Zachary]

Jesus does it all.

The above is another statement from the very pits of hell.

Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us!

News Flash: God created us with a free will ...
to choose to follow Jesus or not, to choose cursings or blessings, etc.
Jesus does NOT force us to love Him, to be His friend, to obey His commandments, etc.

My favorite NT proof is Romans 6:16-19 ...
Choose to be slaves of sin leading to eternal death
OR ...
choose to be slaves of obedience leading to righteousness
and
choose to be slaves of righteousness leading to holiness!

 

[Zachary]

I await to see one (NT verse) that actually shows that
God will take a chilkd and make him a child of the devil again.

1 John 3:10
"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,
nor is he who does not love his brother."

Translation ...
Children of God (choose to) practice righteousness and love other believers!
Children of Satan do NOT practice righteousness and do NOT love other believers!

Heads Up ...
BACs can choose to NOT practice righteousness and/or to NOT love other believers!
Dis turns dem into (disobedient) children of Satan!
Dey have fallen away from the faith; dey have not endured until the end.
Dey have refused to love Jesus enough to obey His commandments, etc.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi Charismatic Lady,
All have sinned is in the past tense, but the second part in which you have translated fallen is incorrect. That is actually in the present tense my friend.

So that begs the question; what is the difference between sinning and falling short of the glory of God?

Oh btw I am right there with ya, Defeatism is a doctrine of the devil. One of my favorite verses involves the question. "Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" For in Him we are more than conquers.

We are to be a people of Faith not doubt.

Good point. Yes, unsaved man still falls short of the glory of God. present tense.