Amen, though the Lord has given us warnings and instructions for our good, that we need to take to heart.
Heart Talks on Holiness
- Thread starter Laurina
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I don't think we are talking about the same things.
Relationship is everything! The heart of my life is my relationship with my Creator. Do you imagine a man who finds a $100 bill, stuffs it into his pocket, and walks away? Or do you imagine a man who clings to his Creator, his only source of life and hope? You ask me, how do I know God isn't testing me to see if I will come back to Him? It seems you have some assumptions about me, that I'm separated from God?
Maybe some more of your posts will give me a better idea of what you are thinking of.
Ask, seek, knock, these are present tense active voice, is that right? We do these continually.
At what point will I be satisfied? I'll echo David's words, when I awake in His likeness.
Much love!
Last edited:
The idea being presented was that He gives 2. I'm saying, why 2? I see many.
What I don't see in the Bible is that we are to say, God, I cannot do as You've commanded until I receive from you the other half of your Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2:5-6 KJV
5) For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
My specific objection to the doctrine of a second benefit, such being as is were a second baptism in the Holy Spirit, is in saying that we are not able to live as God commands us because we haven't received our "second benefit".
Hopefully this will clarify!
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And yet i remind us all of a simple truth . If one believeth not IN CHRIST its all in vain .
As you well know dear sister . You would be amazed at how many amongst us even believe this is no longer necessary .
They will go about teaching the things the apostels did , creating an ideal of how to obtain righteousness and do good ,
and yet they dont believe one has to even BELIEVE IN CHRIST . Now THAT MINDSET , i tell us all is all VAIN .
First step . BELIEVE YE IN CHRIST JESUS , second step learn and obey all things HE did and the apostels left us
in said bible . And know and understand that were it not for His grace , we could not even do that .
This man is but a flea of a dog who is always in dire NEED of GOD and of HIS CHRIST .
I have just come to the place and understanding that i can do nothing of myself but have all NEED in CHRIST .
That the only goodness and righteousness i have simply COMES FROM HIM .
And i am quite happy GOD led me to that place . WHERE my total dependance in all things IS ON HIM .
There simply is no other way for me dear sister . GOD alone , CHRIST ALONE is my only goodness
and righteousness and it is HE who even gives me the desire to do that which is pleasing in His sight .
IT is HE alone that even gives me the power to do so . I truly am nothing , BUT PRAISE GOD HE IS THE ALL IN ALL
THE EVERYTHING . And praise GOD HE let me and lets me KNOW THIS .
I think this parable is one of the most misunderstood parts of the Bible, myself. Many consider the oil to be the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying you do this, but there are those who come to the parables to decode them, to decipher each term. I don't see parables that way.
Let me think a little on how to respond.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The parables are meant to make a point .
the point of that parable is , if one is foolish they aint gonna make it . and on the day of CHRIST it is too late .
BE READY . Five were FOOLISH . THEY DID NOT MAKE IT
FIVE were wise , THEY DID .
SO many have made that parable , in particular into such as it was never meant to be .
IT was a simple warning TO BE READY ALWAYS for ye know not the HOUR or day your LORD Does come .
I completely agree!
I see these times as getting us to connect with our faith so that we can receive God's supply.
Much love!
The problem I have with most interpretations of this parable is that all break down in the final analysis.
Acts specifically deals with this as Peter tells Simon he cannot buy the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Parables are familiar stories told to express a certain truth. In this parable, that truth seems to me to be, it's too late to get ready when Jesus comes. You have to already be ready.
Trying to relate all the details to give a doctrinal statement, I don't think that's what was intended. Consider the Parable of the Unjust Judge. If we apply that principle there, we are left with saying God is unjust.
All the virgins nodded off, sleeping, and all were awoken at the cry of the bridegroom.
In the OT I see numerous places were a lamp, a candle, a light, all are used as idioms of a man's life, and what if the oil represents the life that keeps one's lamp lit? You cannot enter the kingdom with your own mortal life, you have to have new life given, that will last into the kingdom.
There are just so many ways we can interpret these details, but to me the message of the parable is clear. If there is more of a message hidden in these detail, where do we find something Scriptural to interpret it, so we aren't just giving out our own opinions? Something definitive?
Jesus said concerning the Parable of the Sower that if they didn't understand this one, how will they understand the rest? And then He explained it to them, that not all responses to the Gospel result in eternal life. Is that the key to understanding the others?
If so, then the 5 with extra oil are those who are truly saved, and those without, these are not, wouldn't that be right?
Much love!
Last edited:
1 John 1:8-9 KJV
8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Much love!
This is interesting. In the one case, the man began to build, and cannot finish. In the other case, Jesus begins and finishes.
Much love!
I think of following and obey the Lord to be the first thing, and serving others as the outcome.
Much love!
I know it's not an easy thing to hear.....it is for sure some of the strong meat that is necessary for going on to perfection/maturity. There are quite a few scriptures that talk about the potential of losing what we were given. It's no wonder Paul wrote, "Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord...."
Another example is what Jesus said about those who were doing all kinds of things in His name, "Lord, Lord...." and it appears they had spiritual gifts since they were doing miracles in His name etc, but He said only those who do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven. And this verse also:
Mar 4:25
For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
This is a common understanding, but notice what He said, Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity.
Their argument was that Jesus should receive them because they did all these great works, claiming that they were in His Name. Jesus denounces them as workers of iniquity, not workers of righteousness. They did not have the works they claimed. And Jesus "never knew" them. Never.
Much love!
We simply have to keep everything in context, to interpret so as to harmonize with all Scripture, not negating any. I hold to this standard fully, to the very best of my ability.
If we are under threat of condemnation and spiritual death as the children of God, I see some rather serious conflicts with many plainly stated passages.
And I think the ways to interpret these things are given in other plainly stated passages.
My only concern is for the truth, there is no need to employ, "it's not easy to hear", I don't have that issue. I don't care if I've been mistaken about something, I rejoice to find where I've been wrong, because it means I'm gaining in truth.
I believe Scripture is solid that rebirth is permanent, and you don't become "unborn of God". I know we don't see the same way on this, if you want to discuss it I'll be happy to, but I don't feel compelled to convince you, so I'll just leave it up to you.
Much love!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
To think of it another way. At salvation believers are given eternal life , not temporary or conditional life but never ending , eternal , everlasting life without end. Plus Ephesians 1 says believers have been given the Holy Spirit as a guarantee, a down payment of our future inheritance. A secured promise given by God that is unchanging and unshakable.
Well, I know I find this tougher to digest than other things.
I don't know all the answers, but I believe what the Lord is after is for our flesh and will to finally "cry uncle" and surrender to the Lord. We are referred in the parable as a king with a smaller army than the King coming to meet us with twice as much strength.....I think the reference to being kings is alluding to us still being on the throne of our hearts in some respects. We came to the Lord and have been learning to trust Him more and more, until one day we'll trust Him enough to lay our lives on the altar without any conditions or holding anything back...full SURRENDER. That's how I understand it.Blessings in Christ Jesus Lizbeth. It is like having a set of keys in your right hand. The keys represent everything you are, everything you have ever been, and everything you will ever be. This also includes everything you have(own) or will ever have. To make Him truly Lord, Lord of ones life, one must willing to hand these key to The Lord. Once this is done, the real journey begins. It is a true saying, When one comes to the end of themselves, The Lord begins. I used to work in the public for many years. I played dumb there, as well as I do here. There were many who identified themselves as "Christian" and yet only a few were. You see, what happens with me, even though I am not worthy of this, I go into The Spirit when ever I am around a true Christian, where as If some one claims to be Christian and is not I remain in the flesh. For it is The Spirit that bears witness to The Spirit. So yes, full surrender is the message.Well, I know I find this tougher to digest than other things.
Yes, I agree with you completely! But rather than being pushed by threat of condemnation, we are pulled by His great love. Instead of God demanding we get our acts together, He works with us, training us, shepherding us.
Threat of condemnation is the power of the Law, and the Law,
Romans 7:5 KJV
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
The Law produced the motions of sin working in our members, and threat of condemnation will do the same, it's what we call "the law written our our hearts", the conscience, except, while it means we are condemned when we go against it, that is, when we do "what we know is wrong", that doesn't mean our conscience, which is a part of our psuche, soul, that doesn't mean it's infallible. It's not always right, and if we are using our conscience as our measure of ourselves, that's not right.
This is triggered by threat of condemnation, as our conscience starts sorting through our actions and words, confirming, denying, approving, condemning, and this is the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. The fruit of the tree of life is life lived in Christ, not according to our own sense of right and wrong. Is that making sense?
Having a general sense of, If I don't make the cut, I may be kicked from the team, works directly against freely trusting in Christ. Instead we are a family, the family of God, born into it. With much assurance that He will see to it that we will be with Him in glory.
1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
To me this always comes down to, these are promises given to those born again. We are kept by God's power, and His power works through our faith, but notice, it's God's power, and His action. Our faith is like the light that comes off a lightbulb when you connect it to electicity. The power is God's. He uses that power to preserve us unto salvation. To us, that power is our faith. We believe because God's power is working in us. Sealed unto the day of redemption.
Much love!
Last edited:
I've had various times that have greatly impacted me, opening my understanding more, to how much God loves me, and how serious He is to have me, and for me to have Him. That He created me so that He could participate in my life, and having solved the sin issue, now He's doing what He wants, participating in my life with me in a love relationship. And that He indeed has the power to santify our behavior, our thoughts, fully, right now, and He has reasons for not. It's about that participation.
He could fix everything wrong with me, and I could just have a good life, but in the way He's gone about it, I've learned so much, to understand the truth about sin, and corrupt flesh. So that I can take deliberate action with a deliberate faith and it's what I choose, what I want, and in this I'm more like Him.
I think He is training me to understand the processes of sin and righteousness inside me, so that I can truly overcome them. Maybe that's the word I've been fishing for.
Rather than Him overcoming in my life, I think He intends for me to be the overcomer. And in that will be great reward!!
And yes, it's wonderful to share in the Spirit with our brothers and sisters!!
Much love!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I’ll sum up holiness with 4 commands . There is no second blessing but one of continued/ daily dependency upon Christ and denying ourselves which means humility of mind/ heart before the Lord in service to Him, not self.
1- be filled with the spirit
2- walk in the spirit
3- do not quench the spirit
4- do not grieve the spirit
hope this helps !!!
1- be filled with the spirit
2- walk in the spirit
3- do not quench the spirit
4- do not grieve the spirit
hope this helps !!!
