Heart Talks on Holiness

[Eternally Grateful]

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin? That I don't sin anymore? That's how I understand "dead to sin". When something is dead, there is no life in it. In which case, in all honesty, I don't try to sin, my heart is not to sin, but I certainly wouldn't/can't say that I don't sin. I would categorize myself in Romans 7 somewhere between verses 17 and 24. My hearts cry to is be in Romans 8 in spirit and in truth. I've been roaming around in the wilderness for over 40 years for which I am ashamed since I've seen God's hand in many, many wonderous, miraculous acts. I choose to believe men like Joshua and Caleb who testified that the promised land was inhabitable in our lifetime (as in you don't wait until you're dead to be there---something I was taught as a child). As I continue to read "Heart Talks on Holiness", Brengle, the author, testifies that he's been living for 15 years in something he calls "the second blessing". I also see @Episkopos as a "modern day spy" who testifies of this promised land, which he calls "the higher walk", which I believe Paul calls the high calling of God (Phil. 3:14).

John said if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves

dead to sin is not that we are sinless. It is that the power of sin has no sway over us anymore. or we are not slaves to sin.

I like what Paul said.

eph 2: 1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

This is being dead in sin, A state in which we are dead spiritually to God.

We must be made alive, or regenerated. in other words. that which makes us dead must be removed.

Since we will not be sinless. it is not the fact we sin or do not sin.

it is talking about the penalty of sin..

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

 

[Laurina]

John said if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves

I agree!

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

dead to sin is not that we are sinless. It is that the power of sin has no sway over us anymore. or we are not slaves to sin.

Jesus says:

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

I like what Paul said.

eph 2: 1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

This is being dead in sin, A state in which we are dead spiritually to God.

We must be made alive, or regenerated. in other words.

I agree, we must be regenerated! Which means made clean (whiter than snow, Isaiah 1:18).

Ps. 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
1 John 1:19 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It says "all". This needs to be in all reality, in truth. And the author, Brengle, testified to this. It says in the book that at the writing of it, he testified to living in the "second blessing" (as he called it) for 15 years. Do you know of anyone else who can testify of living in this power in all reality, in this present time?

that which makes us dead must be removed.

So can we agree upon what makes us dead?? I believe it has something to do with Romans 4:12. Because I can agree that whatever makes us dead must be removed. And since the wages of sin is death, definitely sin must be removed, which God does....but the seat of power that makes us sin, Paul in Romans 7:23 calls it the law in his members which brings him into captivity to the law of sin, THAT has to be separated from us!

Since we will not be sinless. it is not the fact we sin or do not sin.

We will not be sinless because of our past, but what about our future, if we were indeed made alive to God?
I can't agree here, I think if we do sin it shows that something is still wrong!! See John 8:34. In Christ is no sin (1 John 3:5)!!
Starting fresh from regeneration....we should be without sin, if not, then are we in Christ??

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

it is talking about the penalty of sin..

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

What is "it" in "it is talking about the penalty of sin." Because like you said, the penalty (wages) of sin is death, and the gift of God is life in Christ. (Rom. 6:23)

Peace,

a seeker

 

[marks]

I agree, we must be regenerated! Which means made clean (whiter than snow, Isaiah 1:18).

That's not actually what this word means, though.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

That's not actually what this word means, though.

Much love!

Correct it mean its new life from the new birth of the Spirit of God. It’s because of this new birth we are the Temple of God where His Spirit indwells all believers. That’s regeneration. To be made alive.

 

[Laurina]

That's not actually what this word means, though.

Much love!

I'm going by the definition that Brengle gave.....

Hi, I've been a "visitor" to this site from many, many years and finally became a member when one thread I was interested in took off and I wasn't able to read it as fast as it was happening. That's what sparked my membership...but what keeps me away is all the ridiculous bickering. My interest is the testimony of @Episkopos because it seems to line up with the testimonies of others who have since passed on to glory.

Matthew 7:7,8 says "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

In my reading last night from a book called "Heart Talks on Holiness" by Samuel Logan Brengle I found teachings and testimony by Brengle that I believe @Episkopos is speaking about and has himself experienced. Brengle was known as a saintly man in the Salvation Army Revival. In the book, Brengle wastes no time and in Chapter 1 page 2, I read this:

"....At the same time God plants in the man’s heart a new life. The man is born of God, and receives what Paul calls the washing of regeneration, which washes away all the man’s guilt, and all the sin for which he is responsible. At this time, too, there will be planted in the man’s heart love, joy, peace, and the various fruits of the Spirit, and if his experience is very marked, as such experiences frequently are, he will probably think there is nothing more to be done. But, if he walks in “ humbleness of mind ” (which, by the way, is a much-neglected fruit of the Spirit), if he speaks often and freely with those who love the Lord, and if he carefully searches the Word of God and “ meditates therein day and night,” he will soon find that sin’s disease is deeper and more deadly than he thought, and that behind and below his own sins are the “works of the devil,” that must also be destroyed before the work of grace in his soul can be complete."

Please, only those interested in holiness need to comment.

a seeker

You're right, that's not what it means, but that's one of the benefits...as well as much more!

 

[Brakelite]

dead to sin is not that we are sinless. It is that the power of sin has no sway over us anymore. or we are not slaves to sin.

We will not be sinless because of our past, but what about our future, if we were indeed made alive to God?
I can't agree here, I think if we do sin it shows that something is still wrong!!

If this is true, and I believe it is, then the sole reason we sin is by choice. We are no longer governed by our former passions, as Marks said, we are dead, separated from our former nature, that nature which was born in sin. We have new natures, we are new creatures, born from above, sin no longer having dominion over us. Dominion is kingship... Rule... Power. That power is broken. Previously we had no choice but to sin. It was our nature to do so. That we inherited from Adam. We did not inherit his guilt, but we did inherit his propensity to evil. At times, we could of course using our will, refrain from stealing and adultery, but could we refrain from covetousness and lust? We could refrain from murder, but could we refrain from unreasonable anger?
Now we have the power over sin. But with that comes choices. Sin is no longer inevitable, but a choice we make every time we are tempted. But praise God,
KJV 1 Corinthians 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
The choice is now ours to make. Do we run to God for strength, or do we cave? There are questions we need to ask of ourselves.
A. Do we hate the things God hates, and love the things God loves?
B. Do we hunger and thirst after righteousness and believe the promise that we may be filled?
C. Do we really love Jesus with all our hearts, minds, body, and soul?
D. Are we following the divine pattern?
KJV James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[ChristisGod]

If this is true, and I believe it is, then the sole reason we sin is by choice. We are no longer governed by our former passions, as Marks said, we are dead, separated from our former nature, that nature which was born in sin. We have new natures, we are new creatures, born from above, sin no longer having dominion over us. Dominion is kingship... Rule... Power. That power is broken. Previously we had no choice but to sin. It was our nature to do so. That we inherited from Adam. We did not inherit his guilt, but we did inherit his propensity to evil. At times, we could of course using our will, refrain from stealing and adultery, but could we refrain from covetousness and lust? We could refrain from murder, but could we refrain from unreasonable anger?
Now we have the power over sin. But with that comes choices. Sin is no longer inevitable, but a choice we make every time we are tempted. But praise God,
KJV 1 Corinthians 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
The choice is now ours to make. Do we run to God for strength, or do we cave? There are questions we need to ask of ourselves.
A. Do we hate the things God hates, and love the things God loves?
B. Do we hunger and thirst after righteousness and believe the promise that we may be filled?
C. Do we really love Jesus with all our hearts, minds, body, and soul?
D. Are we following the divine pattern?
KJV James 1:27
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Here is something interesting to think about . Most all in Christendom affirm that Jesus through His death and resurrection defeated death , the devil and sin. Death no longer has power over us because Christ has given us eternal life and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Secondly the devil has no power over believers for greater is He who is on you than he who is in this world. Thirdly and this is where people like to debate and defend sin. If Jesus defeated sin , it’s power like He did death and the devil then the same applies to the believer. But we have been duped by a lie once again . Sin no longer has reign for those in Christ. Like you said it’s a choice and a bad one at that . The problem is the standards have been set low and it’s “ accepted “ by the masses.

 

[marks]

I'm going by the definition that Brengle gave.....

It's not the meaning of the word, though. Shouldn't we start at the beginning? First to understand the words that God uses, and then go on towards what the sayings of the Scriptures are?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct it mean its new life from the new birth of the Spirit of God. It’s because of this new birth we are the Temple of God where His Spirit indwells all believers. That’s regeneration. To be made alive.

Regeneration is to be generated (made to be) again.

We were initially generated from our parents, and now we've been generated again from God.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Regeneration is to be generated (made to be) again.

We were initially generated from our parents, and now we've been generated again from God.

Much love!

​

◄ 3824. paliggenesia ►

​

Strong's Concordance paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal​ Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine Transliteration: paliggenesia Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah) Definition: regeneration, renewal Usage: a new birth, regeneration, renewal. HELPS Word-studies 3824 paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration /paliggenesía ("renewal, rebirth") is used twice in the NT referring to: a) the re-birth of physical creation at Christ's return (Advent), which inaugurates His millennial kingdom (Mt 19:28; cf. Ro 8:18-25); and b) the re-birth all believers experience at conversion (Tit 3:5).

 

[marks]

You're right, that's not what it means, but that's one of the benefits...as well as much more!

In learning the truth, you may find it to be much better than you suspect. That's how it was for me. Learning what God really does in our rebirth is truth that sets you free from those sins that plague you. More than that, this is the truth that sets you free to walk in the Spirit consistently, as consistenly as your faith in Jesus remains consistent.

Forgiveness of sins is a wonderful part of our salvation. We are also transfered from the power of darkness into the Jesus' kingdom. We are born from God a different person, a new person who shares God's nature because of our unity with Him. We share His eternal life because of our unity with Him. We share His righteousness and holiness being born from Him.

If we do not believe, we do not partake. When you look at the table and see nothing but stones, you don't try to eat. Seeing bread, you eat freely. We have His great and precious promises, that through them we may be partakers of the divine nature.

His promise is His commitment to us that He will do what He has said. The certainty of our reconciliation, the certainty of our coming resurrection, these are the faith that gives us access to standing in His grace. He who has this hope purifies himself, even as he is pure.

Even as He is pure. Partakers of the divine nature. Standing in grace. All by faith in Jesus Christ, standing on His promises, living as though they are true, because they are true.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Hi, I've been a "visitor" to this site from many, many years and finally became a member when one thread I was interested in took off and I wasn't able to read it as fast as it was happening. That's what sparked my membership...but what keeps me away is all the ridiculous bickering. My interest is the testimony of @Episkopos because it seems to line up with the testimonies of others who have since passed on to glory.

Matthew 7:7,8 says "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

In my reading last night from a book called "Heart Talks on Holiness" by Samuel Logan Brengle I found teachings and testimony by Brengle that I believe @Episkopos is speaking about and has himself experienced. Brengle was known as a saintly man in the Salvation Army Revival. In the book, Brengle wastes no time and in Chapter 1 page 2, I read this:

"....At the same time God plants in the man’s heart a new life. The man is born of God, and receives what Paul calls the washing of regeneration, which washes away all the man’s guilt, and all the sin for which he is responsible. At this time, too, there will be planted in the man’s heart love, joy, peace, and the various fruits of the Spirit, and if his experience is very marked, as such experiences frequently are, he will probably think there is nothing more to be done. But, if he walks in “ humbleness of mind ” (which, by the way, is a much-neglected fruit of the Spirit), if he speaks often and freely with those who love the Lord, and if he carefully searches the Word of God and “ meditates therein day and night,” he will soon find that sin’s disease is deeper and more deadly than he thought, and that behind and below his own sins are the “works of the devil,” that must also be destroyed before the work of grace in his soul can be complete."

Please, only those interested in holiness need to comment.

a seeker

Holiness is a very important topic, in my opinion, and I'm very interested in it. I would like to know what Brengle believes about other things though, such as imputed righteousness and whether a soul can inherit eternal life without having faith in Christ. Do you happen to know?

 

[Lizbeth]

Holiness is a very important topic, in my opinion, and I'm very interested in it. I would like to know what Brengle believes about other things though, such as imputed righteousness and whether a soul can inherit eternal life without having faith in Christ. Do you happen to know?

@Laurina ....the reason I'm asking is because I've heard testimonies about a second blessing before, but never associated with denying these basic fundamentals of the faith, as far as I know. Well, think I'll do a little searching and try to find out on-line what Brengle and maybe others who have the same testimony taught or believed in the way of foundational doctrines.

 

[ChristisGod]

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin? That I don't sin anymore? That's how I understand "dead to sin". When something is dead, there is no life in it. In which case, in all honesty, I don't try to sin, my heart is not to sin, but I certainly wouldn't/can't say that I don't sin. I would categorize myself in Romans 7 somewhere between verses 17 and 24. My hearts cry to is be in Romans 8 in spirit and in truth. I've been roaming around in the wilderness for over 40 years for which I am ashamed since I've seen God's hand in many, many wonderous, miraculous acts. I choose to believe men like Joshua and Caleb who testified that the promised land was inhabitable in our lifetime (as in you don't wait until you're dead to be there---something I was taught as a child). As I continue to read "Heart Talks on Holiness", Brengle, the author, testifies that he's been living for 15 years in something he calls "the second blessing". I also see @Episkopos as a "modern day spy" who testifies of this promised land, which he calls "the higher walk", which I believe Paul calls the high calling of God (Phil. 3:14).

I truly believe that there is more to the Christian walk than is being portrayed in our time. As in, compare the influence of the early church on society to the influence all our many denominational churches have on our society. I feel we are quickly approaching the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. That being said, I can only take responsibility for my part, which is like one of the 10 lepers (up until now I've been one of the nine) who goes back to Jesus after being initially healed and cry out to him with praise and thanksgiving (enter into His gates with praise and thanksgiving) confessing my complacency and assurances and by faith believe that He has more for me (and others, but I'm dealing with me) then I could know and imagine and with faith believe Him and His promises and wait on Him. (Those that wait upon the Lord.... Is. 40:31).

What do you mean by alive to God? For me, I would answer, "not as much as I would like to be/not as much as He created me to be".

a seeker

Newsflash your mentor in the book made up his own doctrine. There is no " second blessing" anywhere found in the pages of the New Testament. It is a false doctrine. One either has the Holy Spirit at the new birth when they become born again and a child of God or they do not. See John 1:12-13, Romans chapter 8 and 1 Peter 1:22-25. Believers are the Temple of God where His spirit dwells. Romans 8:9, 1 Cor 3:16, 1 Cor 6:19. Believers do not get a part of the Spirit at the new birth and another part of the Spirit later. Believers have Gods Spirit in them and not in parts or waves or more later on down the road. One gets all of the spirit or they don’t have the spirit and are unbelievers who are not born again.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Lizbeth]

Andrew Murray wrote about a "second blessing": Note A. - Chapter II: The Second Blessing by Andrew Murray

 

[ChristisGod]

Andrew Murray wrote about a "second blessing": Note A. - Chapter II: The Second Blessing by Andrew Murray

Like he admits it not scriptural.

Its really simple. Believers obey , submit to the Lord, humble themselves and follow His commands or they serve themselves and their will by sinning against God. A disciple as Jesus taught is one who denies themselves, takes up their cross daily( die to self,live for Him) and follows Him. When we walk humbly before our God then He will live in and through us to do His will. The fruit of the spirit will be evident and others will see the love of Christ working in and through us. All men will know you are My disciples by your love for one another. 1 Cor 13 outlines what that looks like. The real question is are we submitting our wills to His will daily and living for Him. Even Jesus submitted His will to the Father will. Nevertheless not My will be done but Your will be done. Jesus submitted His will unto death to the Fathers will as did the Apostles as martyrs who drank the same cup as Jesus who promised them they would drink. The cup of suffering, persecution and martyrdom.

In Matthew 26:39, Jesus says, "If it be your will, let this cup pass from me." Jesus tells us precisely what the cup was. It was the cup of his suffering, which meant that He would die an agonizing death as a martyr. In the passage below, Jesus told His disciples that they would also drink of the same "cup":

Matthew 20:17-
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”

 

[amadeus]

Newsflash your mentor in the book made up his own doctrine. There is no " second blessing" anywhere found in the pages of the New Testament. It is a false doctrine. One either has the Holy Spirit at the new birth when they become born again and a child of God or they do not. See John 1:12-13, Romans chapter 8 and 1 Peter 1:22-25. Believers are the Temple of God where His spirit dwells. Romans 8:9, 1 Cor 3:16, 1 Cor 6:19. Believer do not get a part of the Spirit at the new birth and another part of the Spirit later. Believers have Gods Spirit in them and not in parts or waves or more later on down the road.

hope this helps !!!

Is not the following an example of a second blessing: From blindness to flawed vision to clear vision?

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

 

[ChristisGod]

Is not the following an example of a second blessing: From blindness to flawed vision to clear vision?

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Restoring a blind man’s sight is a first blessing unless you are saying blindness is a first blessing and restoring one’s sight is a second .

 

[amadeus]

Restoring a blind man’s sight is a first blessing unless you are saying blindness is a first blessing and restoring one’s sight is a second .

What is a blessing?

Without my glasses I am near-sighted being able to read my Bible. Is that not a blessing?

Without my glasses I am unable to legally drive as the traffic signs are often blurred to where I cannot read them. With my prescription lenses I cannot read all of the traffic signs. Is that not a blessing?

 

[marks]

@Laurina ....the reason I'm asking is because I've heard testimonies about a second blessing before, but never associated with denying these basic fundamentals of the faith, as far as I know. Well, think I'll do a little searching and try to find out on-line what Brengle and maybe others who have the same testimony taught or believed in the way of foundational doctrines.

I've not read much of his stuff, but Swedenborg wrote about walking in heavenly realms also. I'm not at all recommending his works.

Much love!