Heart Talks on Holiness

[Laurina]

What a wonderful, glorious day here!!

So Chapter 3 is a real page turner!! This is just the first page of the 3rd chapter!!

"CHAPTER III.
Holiness: How to Get It.
Holiness is that state of our moral and spiritual nature which makes us like Jesus in His moral and spiritual nature. It does not consist in perfection of intellect, though the experience will give much greater clearness to a man’s intellect and simplify and energise his mental operations. Nor does it necessarily consist in perfection of conduct, though a holy man seeks with all his heart to make his outward conduct correspond to his inward light and love. But, holiness does consist in complete deliverance from the sinful nature, and in the perfection of the spiritual graces of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, truth, meekness and self-control or temperance.
Righteousness is conformity to the divine law, but holiness is conformity to the divine nature. That there is such an experience is revealed to us in three ways :
I. By the Scriptures. The Bible tell us that God “chastens us for our profit that we may be partakers of His holiness” (Hed. xii. lo). And He has “given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lusts ” (2 Pet. i. 4). In the Bible God makes us very precious promises of holiness. He gives us very solemn and imperative commands to be holy. He earnestly exhorts us and graciously encourages us to be holy, and teaches us to pray for holiness."

 

[Episkopos]

What a wonderful, glorious day here!!

So Chapter 3 is a real page turner!! This is just the first page of the 3rd chapter!!

"CHAPTER III.
Holiness: How to Get It.
Holiness is that state of our moral and spiritual nature which makes us like Jesus in His moral and spiritual nature.

As He is so are we in this world....when we abide in Him to remain there by His keeping power.

But, holiness does consist in complete deliverance from the sinful nature,

Amen! In Him is no sin.

Righteousness is conformity to the divine law, but holiness is conformity to the divine nature.

Amen. A distinction between righteousness and holiness.

And righteousness is on 2 levels...according to our ability to conform to God's law.

That there is such an experience is revealed to us in three ways :
I. By the Scriptures. The Bible tell us that God “chastens us for our profit that we may be partakers of His holiness” (Hed. xii. lo). And He has “given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lusts ” (2 Pet. i. 4). In the Bible God makes us very precious promises of holiness. He gives us very solemn and imperative commands to be holy. He earnestly exhorts us and graciously encourages us to be holy, and teaches us to pray for holiness."

Yes

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[marks]

I believe regeneration is defined in the same sentence..."which washes away all the man’s guilt, and all the sin for which he is responsible." I don't have a problem with this definition. I also understand that one could see this as the beginning of the race of faith which could be the "sample" that @Episkopos speaks of, as in the first step in the Christian walk. I have no problem with this either.

a seeker

It seems to me that there is so much more than that. I pray that you will see this.

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Are you dead to sin and alive to God?

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

As I was reading through this thread, an experience of the disciples as they walked with Jesus came to mind, when Jesus sought for fruit from a fig tree, which while it had leaves full and mature, it was but a pretentious mask having no fruit, so Jesus cursed it. Later, the disciples were astonished how quickly the fig tree has withered and died.
Now I understand there may be different ways of appreciating this event, and different lessons to be drawn from it. But the thought that occurred to me was Jesus' answer to the confused and surprised disciples...
KJV Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. (Think old man)
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

I can see the above verses being applied to our walk of faith, particularly in our attitude to that dead old man who was crucified with Jesus. Do we really believe that? That he is dead as God says in His word? What do we mean by dead? Lifeless? Or still influential in some way? Because I believe that whatever level of holiness we attain to, whatever manner of righteousness we reflect in our lives... that righteousness that fulfills the law through love... Is directly in proportion to whether we actually believe God's word or not. And our experience will reflect our faith in God's word, and our lives reflect the experience.
KJV Romans 6:9-14
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Notice however something very important. It isn't simply that we believe the old man dead... But that the new man lives!!

 

[Laurina]

It seems to me that there is so much more than that. I pray that you will see this.

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Are you dead to sin and alive to God?

Much love!

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin? That I don't sin anymore? That's how I understand "dead to sin". When something is dead, there is no life in it. In which case, in all honesty, I don't try to sin, my heart is not to sin, but I certainly wouldn't/can't say that I don't sin. I would categorize myself in Romans 7 somewhere between verses 17 and 24. My hearts cry to is be in Romans 8 in spirit and in truth. I've been roaming around in the wilderness for over 40 years for which I am ashamed since I've seen God's hand in many, many wonderous, miraculous acts. I choose to believe men like Joshua and Caleb who testified that the promised land was inhabitable in our lifetime (as in you don't wait until you're dead to be there---something I was taught as a child). As I continue to read "Heart Talks on Holiness", Brengle, the author, testifies that he's been living for 15 years in something he calls "the second blessing". I also see @Episkopos as a "modern day spy" who testifies of this promised land, which he calls "the higher walk", which I believe Paul calls the high calling of God (Phil. 3:14).

I truly believe that there is more to the Christian walk than is being portrayed in our time. As in, compare the influence of the early church on society to the influence all our many denominational churches have on our society. I feel we are quickly approaching the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. That being said, I can only take responsibility for my part, which is like one of the 10 lepers (up until now I've been one of the nine) who goes back to Jesus after being initially healed and cry out to him with praise and thanksgiving (enter into His gates with praise and thanksgiving) confessing my complacency and assurances and by faith believe that He has more for me (and others, but I'm dealing with me) then I could know and imagine and with faith believe Him and His promises and wait on Him. (Those that wait upon the Lord.... Is. 40:31).

What do you mean by alive to God? For me, I would answer, "not as much as I would like to be/not as much as He created me to be".

a seeker

 

[marks]

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin?

The more important question is, What does God mean?

What do you think these words mean? We have to start with the words of God.

What is Biblical "death"? If we think of death as cessation of activity, a corpse, that doesn't take in the full Biblical range of meaning. People, outside of Christ, are declared "dead in sin", but they are not corpses.

So if we are dead in sin, and then we are born again, and are dead to sin, what does this mean? Again, it's not talking about corpses. I believe it's talking about separation.

The soul separates from the body, and the body is dead. The soul is separated from God, and so the soul is dead. We are born again a new creation, the spirit child of God, and are separated from who we were, the one born from Adam, and are dead to sin, and dead to the flesh.

Samuel, though dead, was not inactive. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, though dead, worship God, who is not the God of the dead, but the living. And there are more examples if you like.

This is how I understand how the Bible uses "death".

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think this is very straight forward. A heart has been washed and is brand new....like a clean page ready to be written upon.

I agree with you, and like this,

What washed the heart?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are asking my opinion of what the author thinks? Why would it matter??

It matters because if someone makes a claim that people are saying something, they should be able to back up that claim.

To many times we get people accusing others of saying things they have never said..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe regeneration is defined in the same sentence..."which washes away all the man’s guilt, and all the sin for which he is responsible." I don't have a problem with this definition. I also understand that one could see this as the beginning of the race of faith which could be the "sample" that @Episkopos speaks of, as in the first step in the Christian walk. I have no problem with this either.

a seeker

Is this past guilt. or all guilt? (past and future)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What a wonderful, glorious day here!!

So Chapter 3 is a real page turner!! This is just the first page of the 3rd chapter!!

"CHAPTER III.
Holiness: How to Get It.
Holiness is that state of our moral and spiritual nature which makes us like Jesus in His moral and spiritual nature. It does not consist in perfection of intellect, though the experience will give much greater clearness to a man’s intellect and simplify and energise his mental operations. Nor does it necessarily consist in perfection of conduct, though a holy man seeks with all his heart to make his outward conduct correspond to his inward light and love. But, holiness does consist in complete deliverance from the sinful nature, and in the perfection of the spiritual graces of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, truth, meekness and self-control or temperance.
Righteousness is conformity to the divine law, but holiness is conformity to the divine nature. That there is such an experience is revealed to us in three ways :
I. By the Scriptures. The Bible tell us that God “chastens us for our profit that we may be partakers of His holiness” (Hed. xii. lo). And He has “given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lusts ” (2 Pet. i. 4). In the Bible God makes us very precious promises of holiness. He gives us very solemn and imperative commands to be holy. He earnestly exhorts us and graciously encourages us to be holy, and teaches us to pray for holiness."

Jesus was perfect.

Are we perfect?

 

[marks]

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin?

I hope you don't mind if I give a series of replies to your post, it helps me to express myself on different levels.

As I consider that the Bible tells me that if I'm baptized into Christ, that the old man is crucified, and that I'm dead, and therefore free from sin, that unlike before, now I have a different kind of life that isn't subject to the powers that ruled the old life. I've been separated from that old life - dead - and it has no more power over me.

Now just like when I was dead in sin, that was dead to God, but it didn't mean I wasn't still in a full state of active rebellion against Him. I could still scream and shake my fist, but that's all. Before, I was ruled by my flesh, I had no other options, refusing to be ruled by God. Now, I'm separated from my flesh into a new kind of life, and though it screams and shakes it's fist, it has no more power.

As I continue to read "Heart Talks on Holiness", Brengle, the author, testifies that he's been living for 15 years in something he calls "the second blessing". I also see @Episkopos as a "modern day spy" who testifies of this promised land, which he calls "the higher walk", which I believe Paul calls the high calling of God (Phil. 3:14).

I believe this is when we fully come to believe that we are completely reconciled to God, with no condemnation at all, only love, and acceptance, In Christ, that we are able to trust Him in the way that releases us into this walk.

I myself know this is true. There's a lot more to our experience. Mostly as the Bible teaches us concerning our souls, and the lusts that war against them, it's in terms of renewing our minds, of putting off the old and putting on the new, and all this by trusting Christ in the same way in which we were at the first reborn.

I don't believe we require a "second benefit", I think that is answered here,

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

His promises . . . His commitment to us. What has He promised? That He is always here with us, and He loves us. He working all things for our good. We are accepted in Christ. We are reconciled to God in Christ, not in ourselves, in Christ. We are dead to the flesh, dead to sin, and dead to Law. There is no condemnation.

That when we see Him we will be like Him. That we are hid with Christ in God, and when He appears in glory, we also will appear with Him. That we are seated with Christ together in the heavenlies. That He always provides a way out of testings/temptations. That He chastens His children, so that they will partake in His holiness.

That He will Never leave you and Never forsake you.

How do we walk in the benefit of these promises? We believe them. We believe Him. He Who has shown Himself Faithful and True!

Much love!

 

[marks]

What a wonderful, glorious day here!!

So Chapter 3 is a real page turner!! This is just the first page of the 3rd chapter!!

"CHAPTER III.
Holiness: How to Get It.
Holiness is that state of our moral and spiritual nature which makes us like Jesus in His moral and spiritual nature. It does not consist in perfection of intellect, though the experience will give much greater clearness to a man’s intellect and simplify and energise his mental operations. Nor does it necessarily consist in perfection of conduct, though a holy man seeks with all his heart to make his outward conduct correspond to his inward light and love. But, holiness does consist in complete deliverance from the sinful nature, and in the perfection of the spiritual graces of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, truth, meekness and self-control or temperance.
Righteousness is conformity to the divine law, but holiness is conformity to the divine nature. That there is such an experience is revealed to us in three ways :
I. By the Scriptures. The Bible tell us that God “chastens us for our profit that we may be partakers of His holiness” (Hed. xii. lo). And He has “given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lusts ” (2 Pet. i. 4). In the Bible God makes us very precious promises of holiness. He gives us very solemn and imperative commands to be holy. He earnestly exhorts us and graciously encourages us to be holy, and teaches us to pray for holiness."

I've read this part over many times now, I think it's very well stated.

I'm reminded also of,

Romans 6:18-19 KJV
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

I believe we can do work in ourselves - in the power of the Holy Spirit - that will increase holiness in us.

He also said, "be ye holy", I believe we are able to fulfill that command, but we lack the maturity of faith, many of us, in many times.

Much love!

 

[Laurina]

The more important question is, What does God mean?

I would agree, but you asked me....

Are you dead to sin and alive to God?

Much love!

and I replied....

What exactly do you mean by dead to sin? That I don't sin anymore? That's how I understand "dead to sin". When something is dead, there is no life in it. In which case, in all honesty, I don't try to sin, my heart is not to sin, but I certainly wouldn't/can't say that I don't sin. I would categorize myself in Romans 7 somewhere between verses 17 and 24. My hearts cry to is be in Romans 8 in spirit and in truth. I've been roaming around in the wilderness for over 40 years for which I am ashamed since I've seen God's hand in many, many wonderous, miraculous acts. I choose to believe men like Joshua and Caleb who testified that the promised land was inhabitable in our lifetime (as in you don't wait until you're dead to be there---something I was taught as a child). As I continue to read "Heart Talks on Holiness", Brengle, the author, testifies that he's been living for 15 years in something he calls "the second blessing". I also see @Episkopos as a "modern day spy" who testifies of this promised land, which he calls "the higher walk", which I believe Paul calls the high calling of God (Phil. 3:14).

What do you think these words mean? We have to start with the words of God.

What is Biblical "death"? If we think of death as cessation of activity, a corpse, that doesn't take in the full Biblical range of meaning. People, outside of Christ, are declared "dead in sin", but they are not corpses.

So if we are dead in sin, and then we are born again, and are dead to sin, what does this mean? Again, it's not talking about corpses. I believe it's talking about separation.

Separation like this....

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The soul separates from the body, and the body is dead. The soul is separated from God, and so the soul is dead. We are born again a new creation, the spirit child of God, and are separated from who we were, the one born from Adam, and are dead to sin, and dead to the flesh.

Samuel, though dead, was not inactive. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, though dead, worship God, who is not the God of the dead, but the living. And there are more examples if you like.

This is how I understand how the Bible uses "death".

Your thoughts?

Much love!

These are my thoughts:

Heb. 4: 9,10,11 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb. 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

I am seeking to enter His rest (Knock, ask, and seek), knowing their is much, much more to Christianity than is experienced in our day. God's arm has not been shortened, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So, I put my sacrifice on the altar and wait on the Lord, as I sing praises to Him.

a seeker

 

[rockytopva]

Dear Moderator,
Could this thread be moved to the appropriate forum?

Thank-you

a seeker

Hoping “General Discussion” will do. Thanks.

And now for my input… Not many interested in Holiness these days!

 

[marks]

I am seeking to enter His rest (Knock, ask, and seek), knowing their is much, much more to Christianity than is experienced

Trust Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hoping “General Discussion” will do. Thanks.

And now for my input… Not many interested in Holiness these days!

I think many have the problem of thinking holiness is impossible.

When you think the most desired thing cannot be obtained, it can hurt too much to think about it.

Much love!

 

[rockytopva]

Modern man's view on holiness noting they come ripped out!

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[Laurina]

Hoping “General Discussion” will do. Thanks.

And now for my input… Not many interested in Holiness these days!

Thank-you!! (The sad face was for "not many interested in holiness these days".) This is true but sad because "without holiness none shall see the Lord."

 

[GTW27]

I would agree, but you asked me....



and I replied....




Separation like this....

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



These are my thoughts:

Heb. 4: 9,10,11 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb. 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

I am seeking to enter His rest (Knock, ask, and seek), knowing their is much, much more to Christianity than is experienced in our day. God's arm has not been shortened, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. So, I put my sacrifice on the altar and wait on the Lord, as I sing praises to Him.

a seeker

Blessings Laurina! "I am seeking to enter His rest" Perhaps I can help here. When Jesus was here He said, "My Father is always working".
And this was clearly seen. With me I know my works(my own works) are like filthy rags. So I have entered His rest, which means I have ceased from my own labors(works) so that My Father can work through me. So now I too can now say also that my Father is always working. When I leave this house and go out into the world I usually leave in the flesh but I know The Lord is faithful, faithful to provide what is needed. At any moment I can be walking in The Spirit as The Lord wills. This is usually to bear witness, or to preach The Gospel. When this happens, I am still at rest, but my Father is working through me. This is possible because I have given The Lord the keys of my life(all) to do how He see's fit. You see The Lord designed it this way so That He gets all the Glory and not man. And only He(The Holy Spirit) can touch the heart of man to bring him to repentance(heal him). So I by myself(apart from Him) can do nothing. But I will never be apart from Him, for I have laid down my life, so that others may live, not because of me, for I am nothing, but because of what My Father is doing through me.(He is always working).