Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away

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101G

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There are two ages in the bible, the old and the new. Jesus came to take away the old and set up the new. That is why who so ever will can come to God. In this age we, the believers, can come to Jesus once and live for Him forever.
first thanks for the reply, second, ERROR, there is two ages already. the one we are in now, and the one before the flood, and the one yet to come.

2 Peter 2:5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;"

the old world was the pre flood world, and after the flood is the world that we're in now. and again Peter and Paul wrote of this present world, or second world and the world to nome.

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
2 Peter 3:11 "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,"
2 Peter 3:12 "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
2 Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

well Rocky Wiley if Peter was looking for a new heaven and a new earth, (THE COMING OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF THE LORD), then at his present time/world was not the New world that he was looking for, and since the OLD world, the pre flood world was passed, well that leave him at the time of his speaking in the second age/world, and a third/new world that he looked for was to come.

so you are incorrect as to this present world is the new one, or the second of the two worlds. now our brother Paul. but first, the Lord Jesus, Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
now our brother Paul, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

well Rocky Wiley, please show us in the bible... as a matter of fact, outside the bible too, where the Lord Jesus descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ rose.... during 70 AD? if you have any record of this please post it. for at his coming, the bible is very clear, "EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM". Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Now, if EVERY EYE saw him on AD 70 then there got to be a record of this somewhere, if "EVERY EYE" saw him.... well where is that record? it's just that simple. or else the BILBE lied, about EVERY EYE to see him, (GOD forbid). now, the only other alternative is that he has not yet returned, and that the AD 70 the new world, is a lie. so if you can produce those records, then as it stands, 70 AD new world, is a lie.

we'll be looking for your response.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Rocky Wiley

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first thanks for the reply, second, ERROR, there is two ages already. the one we are in now, and the one before the flood, and the one yet to come.

2 Peter 2:5 "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;"

the old world was the pre flood world, and after the flood is the world that we're in now. and again Peter and Paul wrote of this present world, or second world and the world to nome.

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
2 Peter 3:11 "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,"
2 Peter 3:12 "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
2 Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

well Rocky Wiley if Peter was looking for a new heaven and a new earth, (THE COMING OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF THE LORD), then at his present time/world was not the New world that he was looking for, and since the OLD world, the pre flood world was passed, well that leave him at the time of his speaking in the second age/world, and a third/new world that he looked for was to come.

so you are incorrect as to this present world is the new one, or the second of the two worlds. now our brother Paul. but first, the Lord Jesus, Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
now our brother Paul, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

well Rocky Wiley, please show us in the bible... as a matter of fact, outside the bible too, where the Lord Jesus descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ rose.... during 70 AD? if you have any record of this please post it. for at his coming, the bible is very clear, "EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM". Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Now, if EVERY EYE saw him on AD 70 then there got to be a record of this somewhere, if "EVERY EYE" saw him.... well where is that record? it's just that simple. or else the BILBE lied, about EVERY EYE to see him, (GOD forbid). now, the only other alternative is that he has not yet returned, and that the AD 70 the new world, is a lie. so if you can produce those records, then as it stands, 70 AD new world, is a lie.

we'll be looking for your response.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
the old past away in 70 ad
 

101G

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the old past away in 70 ad
ERROR, the OLD passed away in the flood. we're in this present world, after the flood. the NEW World is yet to come.

understand, Joshua 24:2 "And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods."

so was the people of Joshua time living in a new world? if so, then your AD 70 would then be a third new world?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

Guestman

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Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
"This generation" that Jesus was referring to was their generation.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Jesus was speaking to his disciples who were Jews and they understood that the physical heaven and earth referred to the place where man and God did meet. It did pass away in 70AD, their generation!

At Matthew 24:3, what was Jesus speaking of ? It does not say his "coming", as is used in the King James Bible as well many other Bibles, but rather of his "presence. At Matthew 24:3, Jesus used the Koine Greek word parousia that means "presence", that is contrasted with absence at Philippians 2:12, which reads according to the King James Bible: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence (Greek parousia) only, but now much more in my absence (Greek apousia), work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."(Note: at Matthew 24:30, Jesus used the Greek word erchomai that means "coming")

So, Matthew 24:3 accurately reads: "While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence (Greek parousia) and of the conclusion of the system of things ?”(New World Translation)

When did Jesus invisible "presence" begin ? When he was crowned king of God's Kingdom in 1914, for Revelation 6:1, 2 says of this time: "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder: “Come !” And I saw, and look ! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest."(see also Dan 7:13, 14 and Rev 19:11-16)

Then Revelation 6:3, 4 establishes what immediately followed Jesus enthronement as king of God's Kingdom: "When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say: “Come !” Another came out, a fiery-colored horse, and it was granted to the one seated on it to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another, and he was given a great sword."

When was the entire earth engulfed in war for the first time, of ' peace taken away from the earth, so that they should slaughter one another ' ? In 1914, with the outbreak of World War I, that began on July 28, 1914, so that by the war's end, an estimated 21 million soldiers and civilians lay dead. Up to this time, never had the earth suffered from this scale of a war.(Note: Revelation 12:7-9, 12 gives the reason why the earth became a "war zone" from 1914 onward, so that during the 20th century, an estimated 110 million people died as a result of war, three times the number that died during the previous 19 centuries combined)

Then Revelation 6:5, 6 says that "when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say: “Come !” And I saw, and look ! a black horse, and the one seated on it had a pair of scales in his hand. I heard what sounded like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart of wheat for a de·narʹi·us and three quarts of barley for a de·narʹi·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.”

A direct result of war is destruction of farmland and its farmers that brings on famine (and starvation), causing prices to escalate, so that what was once just a common commodity of grain that everybody ate without worrying about prices, now suddenly changed and were carefully measured out, costing a day's wage (see Matt 20:2) for just a quart of wheat or three quarts of barley, which would not adequately feed a good size family, with no money left for any "luxuries", such as "olive oil and the wine".(Note: barley, of lesser value than wheat, was so abundant in Bible times, that it was used as fodder for horses, 1 Kings 4:28)

Now Revelation 6:7, 8 says: "When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say: “Come !” And I saw, and look ! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth."

With massive casualties from both war and famine, the rider of a "pale horse" called Death now reaped a bountiful harvest of people, so that the Grave was closely following him. But other elements were added, such as death from "deadly plague and by the wild beasts (or individual political governments, see Rev 13:1, 2) of the earth", so that at the end of World War I, immediately a "deadly plague" of the Spanish Influenza that had started back in the spring of 1918 and would eventually infect some 500 million people (or about 1 out every 3 people on the earth), and would begin to rage with unparalleled death, so that by 1920, an estimated 50 million people had died.(Source: History dot com website; Note: some epidemiologists have estimated upwards of 100 million may have died from the Spanish Influenza, in which the first wave in spring 1918 was mild and number of deaths was low, but in the fall, a highly contagious wave of influenza began, so that victims died within hours or days of developing symptoms)

At Matthew 24:7, 8, Jesus said: "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress."

Hence, Jesus invisible "presence" began with a "bang" ! And this has not relented, for just some 20 years after the end of World War I, Adolf Hitler started World War 2 in September 1939, that cost the lives of an estimated 60 million soldiers and civilians over the course of some 6 years.

Jesus "promised presence" (2 Pet 3:3, 4) will last some 1,100 years, until the end of his 1,000 year reign that is to begin shortly.(1 Cor 15:23, 24; Rev 20:4-6) The "last days" (2 Tim 3:1) or "time of the end" (Dan 12:4), "pangs of distress" will be completed at Armageddon that will totally destroy Satan's entire system of things (Rev 16:14, 16), that is made up of three pillars (1) the false religions of the world called Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5), (2) greedy commerce called "the merchants of the earth", (Rev 18:11), and (3) the political governments and their supporters, called "the wild beast".(Rev 13:1, 2)

And when Jesus said that "heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away" at Matthew 24:35, he was not speaking of the literal heavens and earth (see Ps 104:5 and Ecc 1:4), but of the symbolic ones, that represent Satan's wicked system of things and it's supporters that is composed of commerce, religion and especially politics that people look up to for insight, guidance and help.(see Rev 6:12-14; 20:11; 21:1)
 

Rocky Wiley

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At Matthew 24:3, what was Jesus speaking of ? It does not say his "coming", as is used in the King James Bible as well many other Bibles, but rather of his "presence. At Matthew 24:3, Jesus used the Koine Greek word parousia that means "presence", that is contrasted with absence at Philippians 2:12, which reads according to the King James Bible: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence (Greek parousia) only, but now much more in my absence (Greek apousia), work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."(Note: at Matthew 24:30, Jesus used the Greek word erchomai that means "coming")

So, Matthew 24:3 accurately reads: "While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence (Greek parousia) and of the conclusion of the system of things ?”(New World Translation)
The bible you read may not translate a word with the same word but basically the same meaning. Your presence as apposed to your coming to my house. If one comes to your house or when one comes into your presence. What is so different? picky picky
 

Rocky Wiley

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ERROR, the OLD passed away in the flood. we're in this present world, after the flood. the NEW World is yet to come.

understand, Joshua 24:2 "And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods."

so was the people of Joshua time living in a new world? if so, then your AD 70 would then be a third new world?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Age of Law, the old, passed away. Age of Grace is the new.
 

Rocky Wiley

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ERROR, the OLD passed away in the flood. we're in this present world, after the flood. the NEW World is yet to come.

understand, Joshua 24:2 "And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods."

so was the people of Joshua time living in a new world? if so, then your AD 70 would then be a third new world?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Before 70AD they lived under the law.

Today we live in the age of Grace.
 

101G

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Age of Law, the old, passed away. Age of Grace is the new.
GRACE is in between transition, for if you are already in the new world, then why you need "GRACE?".

efore 70AD they lived under the law.

Today we live in the age of Grace.
now Rocky Wiley, by sheer terminology you have exposed yourself. listen, if an even has already happen why have a grace period?. let us put it in Layman's term where you can easly understand what I'm saying. say for instance you recieve a water bill in the mail, or any kind of bill, and on it you see a "DUE" date for the bill to be paid. but also on the bill you may have a "GRACE" period date, AFTER, the due date, just in case if you haven't paid your bill in full. now this is a carnal or worldy analogy of a GRACE PERIOD, now the Spiritual analogy.

understand, TIME RAN OUT FOR MAN AT THE CROSS, (OUR DUE DATE). where our Lord paid the PRICE. for we're BOUGHT WITH A PRICE. he is our KINSMAN REDEEMER. and as our "KIN"sman redeemer, he is willing to enter into a contract, or a testament, or a covenant with us, so that you, and I, all of us will never have to pay another bill, or other words be held liberal for no more debt, (SIN). but we must enter into this covenant, contract, willing. so he went away to prepare for us that security. John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." and before he left, he has sent out an Invitation to enter into his rest.. he is calling us into this contract before he returns, (hence the coming of the Holy Spirit). this answer the question, of Works and Salvation. we work because we're saved. and before his return, our DUE DATE has passed. for old thing are passed behold all things are new...... when NOW? no, because salvation is HOPED FOR, because we have it not..... yet. scripture, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." this wait, is what we calls a "GRACE PERIOD" before he returns, and that "DAY" no man KNOWS. .... Uh O....... :D our DUE DATE has PASSED, but not his, for he has yet to return. and while we wait, (in this GRACE PERIOD), we be about our Father business. oh this is too easy. we have about two or three doctrine screaming right at us.
#1. the Doctrine of Faith and Works in Salvation. (you don't work to be save, you work because you're saved).
#2. the Doctrine of redemption, in HOPE of Salvation. (you have been bought with a price, and has a right to the tree of life)
#3. the Doctrine of Baptism, (the obediance to the call of Salvation)
#4. the Doctrine of the New Birth in Hope of eternal salvation. (REPENTANCE)
#5. the Doctrine of course, "his Grace period", (BY Faith we wait, for Faith is the substance of things ________ for, the evidence of things not seen. there is that "Period of Grace that we WAIT/hope for. oh this is too easy.

I'm sure they are some more just right here in this topic.

but no Rocky Wiley, we're in a GRACE PERIOD, that we wait for his return, just as the scriptures teach, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

now rocky has our Lord Jesus delievered us from the WRATH to Come. as I said, just show us in scriptures, or in any worldy book that he has return in 70 AD then I will shut my mouth.... (smile)... lol. the ball is in your corner.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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Dcopymope

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You certainly have my interest.

How did heaven and earth pass away in 70 A.D.?

:) In the figment of his own imagination.

giphy.gif
 

Mark51

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You certainly have my interest.

How did heaven and earth pass away in 70 A.D.?

"Heaven" and "earth," in this instant, is referring to the Jewish governing and religions system of things (heaven) and its wicked people (earth).