Hi Complexed question here but would really like to know if anyone else does? This question is in relation to Satan and the demons being cast down from heaven to earth. GOD confirmed it in his bible Exodus 20 that in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but which one came first heaven or earth? For in the beginning were we not all just spirits in heaven with GOD and that his original plan for us was to dwell only in heaven with him as spirits? Meaning we only needed heaven to exist not the flesh body or earth? But then when Satan rebelled against GOD in heaven was it then that GOD formed his plan to create the first man Adam from dust and that we were then given these sin filled flesh bodies to exist in under trial and test? Was it also at this time shortly after Adam that GOD casted Satan and the demons out of heaven down to earth to allow Satan time to prove himself in his rebellion against GOD? My point is if heaven and the earth were created at the same time GOD must of created them before he created Satan, meaning if Gods original plan was for us to only exist as spirits in heaven with him, then why did he create the earth at the same time? GOD must of known then that before he created Satan he would rebel against him in heaven? Therefore creating the earth for a place to cast Satan down to and also a place for us to exist inside these sin filled flesh bodies for our faith to be tested. Sorry for the confusion but I've tried to explain the best i can, I'm not trying to oppose GODs work here, but simply trying to understand his original plan for our salvation.
Heaven & Earth which Came First ?
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Where was God before this world was created? Before Genesis 1:1? If He created the heavens and the earth.
The scripture says in the begging God created the heavens and the earth.... Now stop........... the next verse is talking about the earth.Earth was here awhile before Adam. Not billions of years, but for a little bit.This is the time period Satan messed things up.-------------------------------------------------God is Creator............ so if God had yet created any place yet, then there would yet be a place to define him being. This is a question your going to have to ask him, now or when you get to Heaven.
Time as we know it is not a function where the creator is. That is why it is called eternity. Time is believed to only be a function down here. Time itself is most likely a created thing and for our near universe. Einstein came to the same conclusion.If time does not exist to the creator , neither does the word first , as in "what was created first heaven or earth"Heaven always "Is" and earth "was" created about 6000 years ago as far as we measure time down here.When we gaze out at the universe and claim a star is billions of light years away we are fooling ourselves, we are actually looking out to eternity and of course try to assign a distance and time.. The star may actually be very close. Einstein came to the same conclusion.Heaven and God are most likely very close by , or completely surrounding us , it is just in a different dimension and we cannot see it , let alone comprehend it.Got all that ????RegardsMartin W.
You may be under the impression that this earth is the only one in existence. The heavens were there first, because like you said, there was a whole hosts of heaven, good or bad, that could come to a created earth or not. Job tells us that the sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created. Where were they residing? In the heavens. Satan was cast out down to the earth. Good question, thanks!
Close.musicworld said:
The ten horned, seven headed, seven crowned beast kingdom that Satan first rebelled with and drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him reveals the earth had already been created prior to his rebellion (see Rev.12:3-4 in contrast to the one for the end in Rev.13:1-2).
I Jn 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
(KJV)
Heb 2:14-16
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
(KJV)
Isa 30:33
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; He hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
(KJV)
The Son of God was the first born over all creation. The Son of God is the Cosmos in a sense. We are in and through Him.musicworld said:
From a physics perspective, Time, Space, Matter, LIGHT. WORD is the beginning and end of the process.
1 In the beginning [TIME] God created the heavens [SPACE] and the earth [MATTER]. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty,darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters [HYDROGEN - High state of order with low entropy].
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light [knowledge / energy / information / Word].
It starts and ends with Word.
In Hebrew, Aleph Bet is the word Father (ABBA). The Alphabet is the letters, like DNA as an example, that writes the Word. The word Son in Hebrew is Bet (house) Nun (Seed). The house of seed is the Son of God, or the loaf of bread made from grain. Eyes of grain are the seed that opens when you see and the tree grows. Fiat Lux!
Colossians 1
[SIZE=.75em]15 [/SIZE]The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [SIZE=.75em]16 [/SIZE]For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. [SIZE=.75em]17 [/SIZE]He is before all things,and in him all things hold together. [SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. [SIZE=.75em]19 [/SIZE]For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, [SIZE=.75em]20 [/SIZE]and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
So if the earth was created first, then what is a day during creation? Is not a day the earth spinning once around its axis as it orbits the sun?
My eyes were opened to a few things after reading a book called "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Gerald Schroeder.
In short, time is relative, so before man came on the scene, time was relative to God only. However, after man came on the scene time became relative to man. This can be seen with the wording used in the first 6 days of creation that are not used anywhere else in the Bible.
He used writings from ancient rabbis who concluded that the universe was far older than thousands of years old. They did this only through their interpretation of Genesis in Hebrew and passed down information. This was before modern science indicated otherwise.
He even came up with his own theory. He states that the universe is around 15 billion years old according to science and that time halved after each day. That means that day one is 8 billion years old, day 2 was 4 billion years, day 3 was 2 billion years etc. The interesting thing is that events on day 5 of creation in the Bible match up with the Cambrian explosion that happened millions of years ago in our oceans.
It is his contention that scripture is not taken literally enough, not the other way round. He points to the exact Hebrew interpretations of the days of Genesis. For example, the root word for morning and evening can be translated chaos and order.
If nothing else, it is an interesting read and I think he is on to something here. That is, unless you have your mind made up regarding one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
My eyes were opened to a few things after reading a book called "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Gerald Schroeder.
In short, time is relative, so before man came on the scene, time was relative to God only. However, after man came on the scene time became relative to man. This can be seen with the wording used in the first 6 days of creation that are not used anywhere else in the Bible.
He used writings from ancient rabbis who concluded that the universe was far older than thousands of years old. They did this only through their interpretation of Genesis in Hebrew and passed down information. This was before modern science indicated otherwise.
He even came up with his own theory. He states that the universe is around 15 billion years old according to science and that time halved after each day. That means that day one is 8 billion years old, day 2 was 4 billion years, day 3 was 2 billion years etc. The interesting thing is that events on day 5 of creation in the Bible match up with the Cambrian explosion that happened millions of years ago in our oceans.
It is his contention that scripture is not taken literally enough, not the other way round. He points to the exact Hebrew interpretations of the days of Genesis. For example, the root word for morning and evening can be translated chaos and order.
If nothing else, it is an interesting read and I think he is on to something here. That is, unless you have your mind made up regarding one of the biggest mysteries in the universe.
Gerald Schroeder is amazing! There is a good move called The Genesis Code. It mirrors the work of Schroeder.iticus said:
Youtube Video of the Best Part
This is a subject about a spiritual matter, something which modern science has not even a clue. So to understand it our Heavenly Father must be asked for to show it to one in His Word, for it is there. When He said He had no beginning nor end, it means just that. Man's science has a hard time accepting that because they are so used to observation and study of the 'bounds' that God has placed for this present world. So they don't often think out of the box. But to understand God's Word about it, one must... think outside 'their' box.
Rev 10:6-7
6 And sware by Him That liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time (Greek chronos) no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
(KJV)
Because of the 'bounds' God has placed upon us during this present world, we will not be able to fully comprehend that above concept of no time. Science has already discovered that time and space are not constants in certain applications of physics. They don't understand how that can be, only that it is.
Rev 10:6-7
6 And sware by Him That liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time (Greek chronos) no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
(KJV)
Because of the 'bounds' God has placed upon us during this present world, we will not be able to fully comprehend that above concept of no time. Science has already discovered that time and space are not constants in certain applications of physics. They don't understand how that can be, only that it is.
It's still error though, because it is assuming man's tradition that Genesis 1:2 is about God forming the universe when it is not about that.SelectThis! said:
The phrase about the earth being "without form, and void" per the KJV translation is not the best translation of the Hebrew phrase 'tohuw va bohuw'. Instead the real meaning of that Hebrew phrase is the earth was 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin' (as per Strong's Exhaustive Concordance also).
Here is another Bible example of that phrase 'tohuw va bohuw' translated to "without form, and void"...
Jer 4:22-28
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
OK, so this sounds like the beginning of Genesis 1:2 doesn't it? Without going any farther here in Jeremiah 4, how would the majority interpret this passage based on the traditions taught about this same phrase in Genesis 1:2? If they saw only this part they would of course think of the standard traditional interpretation, that it meant the earth was not yet formed, but was like some gaseous nebula without shape floating in nothingness.
But look what happens next according to our Heavenly Father...
Jer.4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Wait a minute. What are these mountains and hills doing here at this point. Not only that, but why did God say they trembled, i.e., shook, especially if He had not yet created the earth per that "without form, and void" phrase? This is only the start of what He is talking about here though...
Jer.4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Per the interpretation of "without form, and void" in Gen.1:2 we wouldn't see a problem with no man existing, but the idea of birds having fled is a bit more difficult to dismiss. If the birds of the heavens were fled, then it means before this they were there in the heavens, having already been created before. So this already isn't lining up with the traditional idea of the "without form, and void" phrase at all, is it?
Jer.4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
The fruitful place had become a wilderness? That word for wilderness can also means a desert land. And even more difficult to fathom, cities there were broken down at God's Presence and by His fierce anger? How does the idea of the earth being in a wilderness state with previous cities being destroyed fit that "without form, and void" phrase He began with for the earth's state?
Jer.4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Because of this God said the whole land shall be desolate, but that He would not make a full end. What that is pointing to is a time of destruction on the earth by God's Hand, by His fierce anger. What could have happened on the earth to create God's fierce anger to turn it into a wilderness state? And exactly when... did this happen, and why is it linked to the 'tohuw va bohuw' idea of the Genesis 1:2 phrase "without form, and void"???
Jer.4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)
What is that idea of the heavens above being black, and the earth in a state of mourning about? When the skies above the earth turn black what does that mean physically? It means the clouds above are full of water and getting ready to empty out upon the earth. And what causes that? The constant exchange of warm and cold air fronts that is responsible for the weather of our present world, and evaporation of waters upon the earth.
Thus the real and true meaning of Genesis 1:1 is that was the real beginning when He created both the heavens and the earth, i.e., science's Big Bang idea your video link tries to join with Genesis. The first verse of Genesis is when He actually created the earth and everything of old, and in Perfect condition. In the other words, the earth did not mourn then, nor were the heavens above black (i.e., storms).
But at Genesis 1:2, the earth had become a wilderness, a waste and ruin state, not a nothingness non-existent state. Something happened in between these verses that caused God by His fierce anger to destroy that first Perfect state that He created the earth in at Genesis 1:1.
True science of geology agrees with this too. It's revealed in the earth's fossil record that there was once a catastrophic end of pre-historic plant and animal life upon the earth. Science has tried to create all sorts of theories to explain that event, like a giant meteor striking the earth to end that time of the dinasours and early plant life. After that fossil gap new life suddenly springs up again, new species and such. Not only the evidence of pre-historic plant and animal species exist in the fossil record to show that, but some ancient buried cities under the deep oceans also exist as evidence (Azores, off the coast of Greece, one off the coast of Cuba about 2,000 ft. under the ocean).
One should also note, all this is completely against man's ideas of the theory of evolution.
Yes, a good literal translation like Rotherham's Emphasized says in Genesis 1:2, The Earth BECAME waste...."
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