Hebrews 10:26-31

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Ferris Bueller

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Unless, God does something in the man, more than quickening him to enable him to respond, he would not respond positively, but would naturally respond negatively.

So, again, how could the man respond in the positive?
How could the man respond in the positive? By a visitation of the Holy Spirit testifying in his heart about the truthfulness of the Son of God.......

1 John 5:6
it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.


The Spirit does not have to be in you in salvation to speak to you, convicting (convincing) you of the truth. He only needs to speak. His Words instill faith in the heart of the hearer. From there the hearer either retains what he hears, trusting in it, and is saved. Or he rejects it, preferring to not believe in and retain what he hears, and so he casts it from his heart in unbelief and goes back to his sinful life.

1 John 5:10
10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.


The person who rejects the testimony of the Holy Spirit is committing the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Even though he knows that the Holy Spirit is speaking is the truth he rejects it, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit. Just like the Pharisees said the Spirit testifying to them through Jesus' works was a lying spirit of the devil, even though they knew He was not.

If this person continues to reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit the day will come when God will turn him over to his decision to not retain the Word of truth in his heart and be saved and he will never be allowed to repent and come to salvation. From that time forward there is no forgiveness available for that person. He is in an unforgivable state.
 
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Tong2020

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How could the man respond in the positive? By a visitation of the Holy Spirit testifying in his heart about the truthfulness of the Son of God.......

1 John 5:6
it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.


The Spirit does not have to be in you in salvation to speak to you, convicting (convincing) you of the truth. He only needs to speak. His Words instill faith in the heart of the hearer. From there the hearer either retains what he hears, trusting in it, and is saved. Or he rejects it, preferring to not believe in and retain what he hears, and so he casts it from his heart in unbelief and goes back to his sinful life.

1 John 5:10
10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.


The person who rejects the testimony of the Holy Spirit is committing the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Even though he knows that the Holy Spirit is speaking is the truth he rejects it, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit. Just like the Pharisees said the Spirit testifying to them through Jesus' works was a lying spirit of the devil, even though they knew He was not.

If this person continues to reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit the day will come when God will turn him over to his decision to not retain the Word of truth in his heart and be saved and he will never be allowed to repent and come to salvation. From that time forward there is no forgiveness available for that person. He is in an unforgivable state.
As I said, unless God does something in the man, more than quickening him, he would not respond positively. For how could the man respond positively when, as God Himself told us in scriptures, every intent of the thoughts of his heart was evil continually, and that the imaginations of his heart is evil from his youth? How could he at that state? The man, left to himself, even when he hears the testimony of the Holy Spirit of the truth, his natural response would be on the negative.

When we see a man who hears the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and responds positively, that is indicative that something supernatural took place in the man. On the other hand, when we see a man, even while the testimony of the Holy Spirit comes to his hearing, does not respond in the positive, that is indicative of nothing supernatural having taken place, so that what we see is what is natural of him.

What is this supernatural thing that happens to those who respond positively?

It is the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the man, convicting him of sin, of judgment, and of righteousness, unto genuine repentance towards God and genuine faith towards Jesus Christ, and is the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart and mind of the man unto conversion, being persuaded genuinely of the truth. With that, the man willfully and genuinely receives Jesus Christ in his heart.

He is being saved by God, being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God ~ not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. He is as such given, the right to become the children of God.

It is God who works out His salvation! Glory be to God!

Tong
R1575
 

Ferris Bueller

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As I said, unless God does something in the man, more than quickening him, he would not respond positively. For how could the man respond positively when, as God Himself told us in scriptures, every intent of the thoughts of his heart was evil continually, and that the imaginations of his heart is evil from his youth? How could he at that state? The man, left to himself, even when he hears the testimony of the Holy Spirit of the truth, his natural response would be on the negative.

When we see a man who hears the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and responds positively, that is indicative that something supernatural took place in the man. On the other hand, when we see a man, even while the testimony of the Holy Spirit comes to his hearing, does not respond in the positive, that is indicative of nothing supernatural having taken place, so that what we see is what is natural of him.

What is this supernatural thing that happens to those who respond positively?

It is the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the man, convicting him of sin, of judgment, and of righteousness, unto genuine repentance towards God and genuine faith towards Jesus Christ, and is the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart and mind of the man unto conversion, being persuaded genuinely of the truth. With that, the man willfully and genuinely receives Jesus Christ in his heart.

He is being saved by God, being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God ~ not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. He is as such given, the right to become the children of God.

It is God who works out His salvation! Glory be to God!

Tong
R1575
Why does it matter? Isn't the important point that you believe, not how you got there?
 

Tong2020

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Why does it matter? Isn't the important point that you believe, not how you got there?
And there you go again, the important point, the important thing.....

Besides, since that truth don’t matter to you and is not important, you might just not come to learn of the many other truths in the Bible that such truth leads to concerning God.

As for me, my heart yearns to know more about God to the praise and glory of His name.

Tong
R1576
 

marks

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Think again, Gospel Perverter....I don’t think that everybody that disagrees with me is lost—- I think what Paul thinks.....they are “ Fallen from Grace” ( not necessarily Lost....smart people disagree) if they add “ ANY” type of Religious work or Human Merit to the Gospel Of Grace.....Paul said that those that teach these False, Perverted “ gospels” are Accursed...as I say..take it up with with ......show me where I have misinterpreted Galatians or shut the hell up....
Try not to allow them to provoke you. That's whats happening here. Lacking good reason for their assertions, when pressed, sometimes people turn on you. Keep the course!

Much love!
 

marks

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Nevertheless, may the Lord abundantly bless you more and more; even as the result of the blessing that I am blessing you with today.

New Living Translation
Rom 2:4, Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?
Rom 2:5, But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6, He will judge everyone according to what they have done.

If you compare this translation to a more literal translation:

Romans 2:3-8
3) And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Do you see where they've substituted "turn you from your sin" for "repentance", they've actually mistranslated, because that's not the meaning of this word. That's the OT sense of repentance, while the NT word is metanoia, or, "after mind", which is to say, the mind you have after exchanging your mind for a new mind.

Much love!
 

marks

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Nevertheless, the passage in question shows that repentance is away from sin and towards righteousness and not just towards faith in Christ.
So when you look at my post above, do you see how this is not so?

Much love!
 

Ferris Bueller

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And there you go again, the important point, the important thing.....

Besides, since that truth don’t matter to you and is not important, you might just not come to learn of the many other truths in the Bible that such truth leads to concerning God.

As for me, my heart yearns to know more about God to the praise and glory of His name.

Tong
R1576
And so I ask again, why does it matter? Isn't the important point that you believe, not how you got there? The church likes to major in theologies, not so much in practicalities.
 
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marks

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@Blood Bought 1953,

You have mentioned that you have prayed to God that He would lead you to the best teachers...

Have you stopped to consider that He might have answered that prayer by leading you to the likes of @Ferris Bueller and myself?

And also, I believe that the Holy Ghost wants to pinpoint this fact in your life...that you have used that prayer as an excuse to lollygag after false teachers who are telling you what your itching ears want to hear...whom you have heaped unto yourself...and therefore your prayer was made in pretense.

Nevertheless the Lord answered it by putting @Ferris Bueller and myself in your path so that you would not be without the witness of those who are faithful to the word.
You've got some nerve!!

:eek:
 
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marks

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If he truly repented, even the passage in Ezekiel 33:11-20 tells us that his former iniquities shall not be mentioned unto him...

There is forgiveness with the Lord...you of all people should know that with the things that you preach.
Forgiveness is not equal to qualification for a particular task.

I'm forgiven by God, but I don't meet the qualifications for being an elder. God may choose me to be an elder, but when a church chooses elders according to Scripture, I've not raised a Christian family, therefore, I don't have the background God has expressed should be there for this position.

It's got nothing to do with forgiveness.

It's really starting to sound like you've got an ax to grind against certain people. "You of all people . . ."

And in this case, the fact is, God outlined for us qualifications for elders and deacons. Ignore them if you want, but why be mean towards those who hold to them?

Much love!
 

marks

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We all know that and agree to that.

But the point in my question is: what natural man, will respond positively? So, if one does respond positively, what happened?

Tong
R1566
What happened? Excellent question!

I know many answer that God changed them. That there was no spiritual response to God of any kind, then, God changes them, and they believe in Him.

I think we have the choice whether we will believe or not. I think that God reveals Himself to us during the course of our lives, and that there are times when God presents us with a choice to believe Him or not, and that He gives a measure of faith, and He gives His Word, and if we choose to put the two together, trusting in His Word, this is the believing that God counts as righteousness, and then He changes us.

Why do some choose to receive, and some not? Scripture gives the answer that some don't want to be exposed for their sin. I think it has to do with our honesty with ourselves. Humility.

Will we let ourselves be broken?

Much love!
 

marks

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<<<...And God will banish you there if you do it long enough.>>>

God will chastise his children who seems to have lost its way into sin. And God’s discipline is effective.
Quite a difference between these two beliefs, isn't there?

That God is sifting His children looking for those who don't sin, the rest to be sent to hell regardless of their faith, this is a much different understanding of God compared to seeing God as our loving Father rescuing us.

God's promise to discipline, which literally means to 'train as one trains a child', that is one of His wonderful promises which I cling to! God has me in His hand, and He's not about to let me go!

First the discipline, then the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

I guess if someone thinks God will banish His children due to sin, they can't have a very high view of God's ability to train us!

Much love!
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Try not to allow them to provoke you. That's whats happening here. Lacking good reason for their assertions, when pressed, sometimes people turn on you. Keep the course!

Much love!

I don’t mind being “ provoked”.....It serves a purpose....I use Judaizers, Spreaders Of Leaven and Tares as mere “Springboards” to get the Truth Of Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing out there for the Newbies that have not been ruined by bad teaching ....yet.
It’s a rare occasion that I get irked.....I just kinda relax, sit back and Trust God to help guide me in composing my posts....I enjoy it...I know somebody out there who is not ignorant , confused, poorly taught or stiff- Necked is being helped by my posts....for me , it’s truly like “ shooting fish in a barrel”
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Nevertheless, may the Lord abundantly bless you more and more; even as the result of the blessing that I am blessing you with today.

New Living Translation
Rom 2:4, Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?
Rom 2:5, But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
Rom 2:6, He will judge everyone according to what they have done.


Not that I really give a rat’s patooty, but why do you think that I am such a terrible sinner?
 

BarneyFife

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I don’t mind being “ provoked”.....It serves a purpose....I use Judaizers, Spreaders Of Leaven and Tares as mere “Springboards” to get the Truth Of Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing out there for the Newbies that have not been ruined by bad teaching ....yet.
It’s a rare occasion that I get irked.....I just kinda relax, sit back and Trust God to help guide me in composing my posts....I enjoy it...I know somebody out there who is not ignorant , confused, poorly taught or stiff- Necked is being helped by my posts....for me , it’s truly like “ shooting fish in a barrel”
The Judaizer has entered the building. ;)
 
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justbyfaith

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If you compare this translation to a more literal translation:

Romans 2:3-8
3) And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4) Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Do you see where they've substituted "turn you from your sin" for "repentance", they've actually mistranslated, because that's not the meaning of this word. That's the OT sense of repentance, while the NT word is metanoia, or, "after mind", which is to say, the mind you have after exchanging your mind for a new mind.

Much love!

So, you are saying that the NLT is not a valid translation?

There are those who read the NLT as the Bible that they read; they are not getting the unadulterated word of the Lord?

I believe that the NLT helps us to understand what is written in the kjv a little bit better; showing what some of the words mean that may be obscure in today's language as it is translated by the kjv.

So when you look at my post above, do you see how this is not so?

Much love!

No...because I do not hold that the NLT is an invalid translation.
 
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justbyfaith

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Try not to allow them to provoke you. That's whats happening here. Lacking good reason for their assertions, when pressed, sometimes people turn on you. Keep the course!

Much love!
I do not lack good reason for my assertions; and I have not "turned on" @BB1953...

But if you consider his words, he has certainly "turned on" me...

I know that I am not preaching a false and perverted gospel...if that is what I am doing, then John the Baptist and Ezekiel, you are not going to see in heaven because they taught a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel and are accursed according to Galatians 1:6-9...

But @BB1953 has certainly accused me of teaching a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel...

When what I preach is basically the same as what was preached by John the Baptist and Ezekiel.

So, if what I preach is FALSE and PERVERTED...what they preached was FALSE and PERVERTED...and they are today accursed and not in heaven; because they are accursed.

If what I preach is a different gospel, then what John the Baptist and Ezekiel preached was a different gospel...

And they are accursed and will not be in heaven for the preaching of it.