Hell Fire

[kcnalp]

Sorry, you don't get to make up your own definitions. Death means the cessation of life. Here is Webster's definition.

a permanent cessation of all vital (see VITAL sense 2a) functions : the end of life

No one is alive but dead in a literal sense. That is only possible figuratively, such a metaphor. To be alive and dead literally at the same time is a logical contradiction and not possible. A basic Law of logic states that two opposing things cannot both be true at the same time. Thus someone who is said to be dead, is dead, unless is it used in a metaphorical sense.

You know, one of the most troubling things I find is how Christians will redefine words to fit what they believe rather than changing what they believe to fit what is stated.

I have cited 3 Biblical examples where sinners were dead but still alive. Death does not mean cease to exist. How about another?

Ephesians 2:1 (NKJV)
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Dead and alive!

 

[Getitright]

You never read about Abraham, Moses and Lazarus in the Bible? They are real people. Are you denying eternal punishment in fire? Well no, I haven't seen dead people conversing. I haven't been there. Have you?

Ok, so, you have not physical evidence. That means the only evidence you have is "your" understanding of a few passages of Scripture. That means if your understanding of those passages is wrong then you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your claim. You claim that the dead can converse. How do you reconcile that with David's words? Remember, David was a prophet.

3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.1
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ps. 146:3-4 KJV)

How does one converse when their thoughts have perished?

 

[kcnalp]

Ok, so, you have not physical evidence. That means the only evidence you have is "your" understanding of a few passages of Scripture. That means if your understanding of those passages is wrong then you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your claim. You claim that the dead can converse. How do you reconcile that with David's words? Remember, David was a prophet.

3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.1
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ps. 146:3-4 KJV)

How does one converse when their thoughts have perished?

You have ZERO proof that it is a parable. Do you deny eternal punishment in Hell fire?

 

[Getitright]

I have cited 3 Biblical examples where sinners were dead but still alive. Death does not mean cease to exist. How about another?

Ephesians 2:1 (NKJV)
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Dead and alive!

As I've shown, it is a metaphor. It's a figure of speech.

 

[kcnalp]

As I've shown, it is a metaphor. It's a figure of speech.

No Scripture? Are you denying the eternal Hell fire?

 

[Getitright]

You have ZERO proof that it is a parable. Do you deny eternal punishment in Hell fire?

I've already given proof. They died. Dead people can't speak. You claim it's literal but haven't proven it. It's the last in a series of Parables. It begins the same way as the parable for it, "there was certain rich man" the parable before that starts 'there was a certain man'. There seems to be a pattern here.

 

[Getitright]

No Scripture? Are you denying the eternal Hell fire?

I thought it was pretty clear that I denied it. Gehenna will not burn forever. Jeremiah prophesied of a time when Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord.

38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. (Jer. 31:38-40 KJV)

 

[kcnalp]

I've already given proof. They died. Dead people can't speak. You claim it's literal but haven't proven it. It's the last in a series of Parables. It begins the same way as the parable for it, "there was certain rich man" the parable before that starts 'there was a certain man'. There seems to be a pattern here.

Certain indeed! You just proved my case. They are literal people.

 

[kcnalp]

I thought it was pretty clear that I denied it. Gehenna will not burn forever. Jeremiah prophesied of a time when Gehenna would one day be made holy to the Lord.

38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. (Jer. 31:38-40 KJV)

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[teamventure]

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

There you have it. Scripture put it as plain as day yet they refuse to see.
Thank You for posting here kcnalp.

 

[kcnalp]

There you have it. Scripture put it as plain as day yet they refuse to see.
Thank You for posting here kcnalp.

Satan loves convincing people there's no eternal Hell. He knows his goose is "cooked". He wants to take as many as he can with him.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[aspen]

Many people's idea of Hell is eternal torture by a Loving God, which is filled with people who loved other people of the same sex; those who were raised in places that were alien/hostile to Christianity; practiced love without Christian doctrine; were wrapped up in worldly culture; and people who were tired of being lied to by their church/denomination leaders, while watching the hypocrisy and corruption within Christianity.

According to the numbers, this version of Hell will be made up mostly by people who weren't playing on the Christian Team for one reason or another - hardly the most wicked, evil people ever created.

 

[DNB]

I believe that the breath or spirit is not man but rather is something of God Himself. This breath or spirit returns to God. I don't see anything in Scripture about a human spirit. From what I see in Genesis man is literally dust that is animated by the breath or spirit (same word) of God. This breath or spirit is what gives man life and any abilities that he has. Scripture tells us that it is God's breath or spirit that gives us understanding. We are told that we live as long as the breath or spirit of God is in us. As an analogy, I use a computer. You can build a great computer but it does nothing until you supply electricity to it. The electricity is not part of the computer but it will animate it. Likewise, man is the computer. Like the computer needs the electricity to come alive man needs the breath or spirit of God to come alive. This is why I say the man ceases to exist when God's breath or spirit returns to Him. The only thing left is the body that returns to dust.

But, are we not talking about the time after Judgment day? We both seem to agree that these current corporeal bodies that house our spirit, are temporal and perish upon physical death. Is there no eternal salvation, or eternal damnation? if there is eternal damnation, then there must be a hell (or call it what you like). The principle is not a Greek philosophical construct, it refers to the post-resurrection period.

 

[kcnalp]

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

 

[aspen]

Hell is a delusion

 

[kcnalp]

Hell is a delusion

Not according to Jesus.
Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Truther]

Metaphors or analogies in the verses that you quoted. But 1000% allegorical in Luke 16:19–31, for the reasons that I cited.
No one should ever use an allegory or parable to derive doctrine, that was the point that I was trying to make.

I think everything that you say is an allegory, because I say so.

How does that make you feel?

 

[Truther]

Christ will probably have a different opinion on that.
Besides, I was talking to kcnalp, not yourself?
Besides, what's an 'unanswerable Scripture', or what does it mean?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God


All he continues saying is I am going to hell for agreeing with Jesus' words here.

He will not answer the question highlighted though.

 

[Truther]

This is Gehenna. If you go to the old testament and read the passage that Jesus is quoting you'll see that it is on the earth and it is corpses, dead bodies, that are burning, not living souls or spirits.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

As you can see, it is carcases or dead bodies that are burning.

God is burning Adolph Hitler's dead body now, but his spirit is resting peacefully?

 

[kcnalp]

Only Satan's children say Jesus wasn't good!