Hell Fire

[Truther]

Agreed, but I have never, ever rejected the doctrine of eternal punishment, I accept it as Biblical truth. BUT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD truther, the parable of the Rich Man & Lazarus is still a flippin' allegory, for the flippin' reasons that I stated.
Go away if you can't comprehend the point!

Stop "cussing" and get in the discussion.

When there is an allegory, it will say something like this...


22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



...and Jesus mentions nothing even remotely hinting that the rich man/Lazarus story is an allegory.

So, you made it up.

 

[Nancy]

Not even a man that murdered 6 million minimum?

I do believe there will be different levels of punishment.
Deuteronomy 25:2
"If the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall have him lie down and be flogged in his presence with the number of lashes his crime deserves."

 

[Truther]

I do believe there will be different levels of punishment.
Deuteronomy 25:2
"If the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall have him lie down and be flogged in his presence with the number of lashes his crime deserves."

No eternal punishment for Hitler means God let's us get away with murder.

I can guarantee you Hitler never found God at the end in the bunker.

 

[Nancy]

No eternal punishment for Hitler means God let's us get away with murder.

I can guarantee you Hitler never found God at the end in the bunker.

I would agree that it was most unlikely that Hitler came to Christ at the last moment. I would think that God's punishment would be way more punitive than even we could do to him. And, How can a carnal human being (unsaved who's spirits have never been re-born) live into eternity? Their bodies will die with their carnal spirits...no Spirit of God? No eternal life, in Heaven or Hell.
Nothing gets past God and He is JUST to the max. Many will pay dearly under His wrath.
JMHO

 

[DNB]

Stop "cussing" and get in the discussion.

When there is an allegory, it will say something like this...


22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.



...and Jesus mentions nothing even remotely hinting that the rich man/Lazarus story is an allegory.

So, you made it up.

No, not all allegories, or any other literary device that is used in the Bible, states that fact prior or after utilizing the convention.
When Jesus said 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood', or 'sever your body part if it offends you', did he state a caveat for those two verses, as in , '...these expressions are just figures of speech...'. Or, do you take them literally also (rhetorical)?

And like I said, Jesus did rather overtly and blatantly indicate that this is an allegory, by the entire implausibility of the environment, and dialogue.
Not to mention, eschatology was not even the context for Jesus' remark, it was about the imminency in accepting the faith while on earth, for there will be no other opportunities to apprehend it after death, nor excuses as to why you didn't while still alive.

 

[Butch5]

Not even a man that murdered 6 million minimum?

I think you're missimg the point. The Lake of Fire doesn't burn for eternity. Look at post 127 where I posted the prophecy from Jeremiah. He said one day it will be made Holy to the Lord.

 

[Butch5]

No eternal punishment for Hitler means God let's us get away with murder.

I can guarantee you Hitler never found God at the end in the bunker.

Have you ever considered how the doctrine of eternal torment reflects on God's character? The Bible says that God is love and the He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. That being the case, how do justify saying He will keep people alive for the sole purpose of torturing them?

 

[kcnalp]

a personal delusion is real for the person who believes it

I don't think Jesus was delusional.

 

[kcnalp]

The Lake of Fire doesn't burn for eternity.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[kcnalp]

If you go back an look at my losts on aion and research what I said you'll see that aion cannot mean forever. That's a mistranslation.

Besides, this passage only speaks of the devil, the false prophet, and the beast. It says nothing of anyone else.

It appears you're parroting what you've been taught. You're posting passages that don't even prove what you're claiming. I see this often with people who have been taught certain doctrines but haven't really invested for themselves. When you make a claim, make certain that the passage actually states what it is you're claiming.

Oh gee, another Bible editor.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[kcnalp]

But, no one will be in the Lake of Fire for eternity

God will burn them alive but He won't burn them forever?

Matthew 13:40-42 (NKJV)
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[kcnalp]

Agreed, but I have never, ever rejected the doctrine of eternal punishment, I accept it as Biblical truth. BUT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD truther, the parable of the Rich Man & Lazarus is still a flippin' allegory, for the flippin' reasons that I stated.
Go away if you can't comprehend the point!

There is ZERO proof that Luke 16 is a parable.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes, I'm professing annihilationism.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Taken]

Many people's idea of Hell is eternal torture by a Loving God...

And the problem with that IS, many people's ideas, DO NOT supersede Gods Truth.

Glory to God,
TKen

 

[bbyrd009]

The concept of Hell as place of eternal concious torment is not taught in the Bible. It comes from Greek Philosphy. For there to be a place of eternal torment man you need to be immortal. However the apostle Paul informs us that the Father alone is immortal. Man is mortal and he will die. Hell in the Bible, Hades or Sheole, is actually the grave. All people go to the grave. When a person dies they go to the grave

^

 

[bbyrd009]

Not even a man that murdered 6 million minimum?

hmm, did he actually personally murder any, or did he have help?

 

[DNB]

There is ZERO proof that Luke 16 is a parable.

Yes, but zero in Fahrenheit is actually 32?

 

[teamventure]

Agreed, but I have never, ever rejected the doctrine of eternal punishment, I accept it as Biblical truth. BUT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD truther, the parable of the Rich Man & Lazarus is still a flippin' allegory, for the flippin' reasons that I stated.
Go away if you can't comprehend the point!

For those reading, even if the parable is an allegory, it still tells a story about hell being a literal place of torment.

 

[bbyrd009]

prolly not, wadr; the point of the parable is not that i dont think
thats just what ppl who believe in Death More Abundantly need it to mean i guess

When a person dies they go to the grave where they remain until the Resurrection.

"buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him"
do preachers even say this @ "Christian" baptisms any more?

 

[Butch5]

Oh gee, another Bible editor.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Can you make an argument or do you just proof text all the time? I've already shone that aion doesnt mean forever.