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Selene, I read your answer and it is - to say the least - lacking.
If the Catholic church is teaching things that are not scripturally supported and in some cases, go against what scriptures say then Jesus definitely ISN'T the head of the Catholic church. It really is that simple.
Saying that whatever the Catholic church holds as doctrine is correct because "Jesus is the head of the Catholic church" is specious at best.
If you cannot show scriptural support for a doctrine or belief, then it should be held suspect. Especially with a concept like Purgatory which runs contrary to actual scripture.
Again, you have nothing to prove that Jesus approves of that concept (or several others) so saying it is right because He is head of your church just.....doesn't.....fly.
"Foreigner, because you are not Catholic, it is understandable that you think that the Catholic Church is incorrect. However, the fact that we do not dismiss our Church shows that we are indeed aligned with what the Bible teaches." - Selene
-- The Mormons can say that exact same quote. Are they correct?
And you forget, I spent the first 22 years of my life as a practicing Catholic. Catholic school, altar boy, Catechism classes, Confirmation, the whole nine yards. I have been where you are. The difference is I finally chose truth over dogma.
"In other words, the Bible says that Christ is the Head of the Church; therefore, we believe that Christ is the Head of OUR Church. " - Selene
-- But Christ (nor His Word) told the Catholic church about Purgatory, Mary never having children after Jesus, Mary being lifted up into heaven alive, praying to the dead saints, that Jesus's ACTUAL body and blood is created at every Mass, the 'infallibility' of the Pope, etc. etc. etc.
If Christ TRULY was the head of your church, your church wouldn't claim that these things are correct.
Again, neither Christ nor His Scriptures support these ideas - at all.
"Why you do not believe that Christ is NOT the Head of YOUR church is not my problem." - Selene
-- THIS is what you are reduced to Selene?
Claiming that because someone is not a Catholic that Christ is not the head of their church?
Amazing. Abolutely amazing.
"The Bible says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth; therefore, we do not dismiss our Church and recognize it as the pillar and foundation of Truth. Your belief that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of Truth goes against what the Bible says." - Selene
-- I hope that everyone on this board actually READS this statement ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ because it shows a lot.
First, "Church" as you are speaking of should mean "body of believers" not "Catholic Church" because there is NOTHING, repeat NO THING anywhere that indicates the Catholic church is Jesus' church. Especially when so many pillars of that church are not supported even remotely by Scripture.
Second, that statement says you are elevating the teaching of the man-formed Catholic church over God's own divinely breathed Word.
I am sorry you are unable to recognize what a travesty and danger that is.
"Your belief that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of Truth goes against what the Bible says." - Selene
-- Really? Are you that ill-informed?
Because in all actuality the Bible says just the opposite:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," - 2 Tim. 3:16
That means that if what is taught in the Catholic church runs contrary to what the Bible teaches, it......is......wrong.
It really is that simple.
It still amazes me how the Catholics here dodge and avoid direct questions at all costs. It really does. I single the Catholics out because, oddly enough, they're the only two people on here I know of that do this on an ongoing basis.
The question was if the teaching was correct. Selene responds:
The Mormons have what is called "The Book of Mormons." Since they follow that book (which is not the Bible), then they are correct according to their book.
Thus absolutely failing to answer the question.
This reminds me of an evil woman named Oprah who believes as long as it's right TO THE PERSON- all paths lead to God.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=pwGLNbiw1gk
It still amazes me how the Catholics here dodge and avoid direct questions at all costs. It really does. I single the Catholics out because, oddly enough, they're the only two people on here I know of that do this on an ongoing basis.
The question was if the teaching was correct. Selene responds:
The Mormons have what is called "The Book of Mormons." Since they follow that book (which is not the Bible), then they are correct according to their book.
Thus absolutely failing to answer the question.
This reminds me of an evil woman named Oprah who believes as long as it's right TO THE PERSON- all paths lead to God.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=pwGLNbiw1gk
Sister - you have taught me so much - I love you and cannot wait to see you in heaven - Jesus has worked some thing amazing in your heart. I need you to know that my heart is not necessarily in line with the Catholic Catechism. I have taught it - I believe it - but my mind strays from it at times - this is a personal fault,which Jesus is working out in my heart. The reason I am telling you this, my sister,Selene is that I hope you are arguing the truth of the catholic doctrine - not my musings, I trust in Jesus to straighten out my doctrine.
My brother, I did answer the question. You just don't like the answer. That was the answer.
Why in the world would you compare the Mormons with Christians when the Mormons are not Christians because they use another book called "The Book of Mormons."
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The question was if it was correct. Not if it was correct TO THEM, but if it was correct.
You mean like Catholics have the Catechism?
The Mormons use the Bible too. Just like Catholics. I think you have more in common with them than you'd admit.
My brother, they cannot be compared to Christianity because they have a different book that we do not use.
So you hold it as uninspired and subject and under the Bible?Wrong. The Catechisms is our instructional book.
If I was a righteous man, and you said to me these words "Hell, I would like to suggest, is evidence not so much of God's justice - though partly that - but rather of His mercy. One might, in fact, complain that God was cruel if Hell did not exist. I realize that may sound difficult, but if you will follow along, I will attempt to make that case as best I can." I think I would have to say to you "depart from me for I know you not."
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He wasn't trying to compare it to Christianity. He asked you if that was correct or not.
Sheesh, you make this harder than it is.
Either that teaching is correct or it's not. You'd be a universalist to say it's correct "if they believe it".
So you hold it as uninspired and subject and under the Bible?
"The Mormons have what is called "The Book of Mormons." Since they follow that book (which is not the Bible), then they are correct according to their book." - Selene
-- Actually that Mormons that come to our door or and advertise on TV offer BOTH the Bible AND the Book of Mormon.
Like Catholics they claim the Bible is not the final word and that their book completes the teachings that God wants us to know.
So according to these dicussions Catholics truly do = Mormons.
-- Actually it was obedience to the Bible that make me leave the Catholic church. The Catholic churches teach non-Christ supported things. That has been shown many times here.
Also you choose to use the word "Church" as if it only applies if the word "Catholic" is in front of it. That is wrong.
Do you really think that there is no church body outside the Catholic church?
Let me phrase it another way. Are all people that aren't Catholics going to hell? (If this answer in your mind is yes, then that explains a lot."
If the answer is 'no' then you really need to quick acting like it.
"Catholic who went against his Church already went against the Bible according to Hebews 13:17. A former Protestant who went against his church and converted to another religion also did the same thing." - Selene
-- The Catholic church wasn't in existence when Hebrews 13:17 was in existance and that scripture is not talking about the Catholic church at all. Try again.
"Purgatory is only a place where sins are purged in order for the soul to enter Heaven." - Selene
-- Unfortunately the Bible (Read: God) does not support the idea of a place where you will spend days, week, years, decades, centuries - all depenent upon the degree of your sins - atoning for your sins before you are allowed into heaven.
You have quoted from Hebrews (incorrectly I might add) in this thread. Allow me to quote from Hebrews, as well:
"Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment," - Heb. 9:27 -- So much for Purgatory.
Yours is a human concept escalted by man, passed of as a Godly concept, that has now grounding in scripture or fact.
"If you do not believe that YOUR church is not the Church built by Christ, then why even bother being a part of that church?" - Selene
-- My church is a Christ believing, Christ worshiping, Christ seeking, Bible believing church. Obviously NOT the Catholic church.
Answer my question.My brother, the Catechisms are the "apostolic traditions that St. Paul spoke about.
2 Thessalonians 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.