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Help--False Prophets!

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by ephraim101, May 13, 2007.

  1. RND

    RND New Member

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    (jodycour;13114)
    This seems to be the only occurence that you recall, but it is not!
    Jody, I was responding to the point made by another poster with respect to a verse they brought up.
    In I Corth.14:4 If the Un-known tongue he is talking about here was a known other language why would he call it un-known?
    Because an 'unknown tongue' here means an unknown language. In other words, if you have a room full of people speaking Hebrew, and one speaking Greek, and no one knows Greek, the Greek becomes an 'unknown tongue' because no one speaks or understands it.
    Plus he said that it is better to prophecy because all will benefit unless it is interpreted.
    Because it is interpreted.
    But then he says un-known tongues is a person only speaking to God and it only benefits that person, and Builds them up!
    Right. That's understood.
    I corth.14:2 It say's here clearly that he speaks in mysteries!
    To God, not to men.
    In verse 5 He says:I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied.
    Indeed, prophecy is seemingly more valueable than languages.
    In verse 14:For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is un fruitful.
    No doubt.
    But His spirit man is praying! That is beneficial, not vain babbleing!
    For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.Um, praying in the 'spirit' Jody.
    Verse 18 says:I thank God , I speak with tongues more than ye all!Why would He thank God for vain babbling?
    Because spoke many, many languages, not just Hebrew. He spoke Greek, Latin (he was a Roman born in a gentile city), and Aramaic which would have made being an apostle to the gentiles much easier.
     
  2. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Because spoke many, many languages, not just Hebrew. He spoke Greek, Latin (he was a Roman born in a gentile city), and Aramaic which would have made being an apostle to the gentiles much easier.
    I have read pastor Bachelor's experience and explanation of "speaking in tongues"; I came to the same conclusion as his. I believe he is doing a good job against "speaking in tongue" churches.
     
  3. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Faithful1;13132)
    I have read pastor Bachelor's experience and explanation of "speaking in tongues"; I came to the same conclusion as his. I believe he is doing a good job against "speaking in tongue" churches.
    You know Faithful1, what I'm concerned with here is that people simply don't understand that you or I may indeed believe it is very possible for people to begin either speaking or hearing in an unfamiliar language through the power of the Holy Spirit.But just making noise, grunting, girgling and speaking in gibberish isn't speaking in a different language and I think is sometimes a manifestation of unclean spirits. At least that's how I see it.It this worship?
     
  4. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    But just making noise, grunting, girgling and speaking in gibberish isn't speaking in a different language and I think is sometimes a manifestation of unclean spirits. At least that's how I see it.
    When I was attedning pentecostal type church, many of them told me when they are speaking that makes them feel good. I believe there are many kind of spirit and what those people are doing do not sound good one, IMHO.
     
  5. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Faithful1;13137)
    When I was attedning pentecostal type church, many of them told me when they are speaking that makes them feel good. I believe there are many kind of spirit and what those people are doing do not sound good one, IMHO.
    I too attended a pentecoatal type church run by a pastor I once sold a car to years ago. I went to one sunday service and one tuesday Bible study. Suffice to say I have never been back since.
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (RND;13134)
    You know Faithful1, what I'm concerned with here is that people simply don't understand that you or I may indeed believe it is very possible for people to begin either speaking or hearing in an unfamiliar language through the power of the Holy Spirit.But just making noise, grunting, girgling and speaking in gibberish isn't speaking in a different language and I think is sometimes a manifestation of unclean spirits. At least that's how I see it.It this worship?
    I couldn't agree more if you don't know what you are saying how can you know from where it comes It seems everyone I talk to that does this or has seen it has seen or witnessed some negative experience. This tells me they have know idea what they messing with. Which is why the bible says you shouldn't do this with more than two /three people without an interpreter (prophet)below is a study I found that puts together all the verses we have been quoting about this topicHere is a link to a KJV and Strongs concordence if any one wants to check hebrew/greek translations your self (be sure a put a check mark in show strongs then click on the little number by any word in the KJ and get the hebrew/greek definations. http://www.blueletterbible.org/search.html#search
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    In another study on this site we encountered a quote by a man regarding the "Talking in Tongues" issue. In his below (flawed) statement we see the foundation of the errant practice of so-called "Talking in Tongues." The gentleman is in error when he stated:(ERRANT IDEA) QUOTE:"Exercise caution when speaking in an unknown tongue. Be certain there is an interpeter present and no more then three praying at a time in the church. God revealed this to us in ACTS for a reason. Because there is a danger in speaking in an unknown tongue" The gentleman is is error, for the Scriptures do not state to speak in an UNKNOWN tongue, but that they would speak in OTHER tongues (i.e., other languages). This was a gift for communicating the Gospel to peoples of other languages and has absolutely nothing to do with the demonic manifestations that are being carried out in the modern deceived churches. In every occurrence of "unknown tongue," in the New Testament, the word "unknown" is an added word (italicized in the KJV) by the translators to make the English readable. It is not in the Manuscripts! In the King James Bible you see some words in italics. These are words that they had to add to properly translate the Hebrew/Greek into English. As we can see, they did not always add the right words. But they were faithful in that they placed the words that they added in italics so that we would know that the words do not appear in the original Manuscripts as such. Check your Strong's for the word "unknown" in: 1 Cor 14:2, 1 Cor 14:4, 1 Cor 14:13, 1 Cor 14:14, 1 Cor 14:19, 1 Cor 14:27; it is not there in the printed versions, and in the electronic versions it lists the definition for "tongues" not "unknown." below we supply the above Scriptures, in them we supply the italics from the printed King James Bible version (We also place those italicized words in bold print so you can spot them quickly):1 Cor 14:22 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV1 Cor 14:44 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. KJV1 Cor 14:1313 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. KJV1 Cor 14:1414 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. KJV1 Cor 14:1919 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. KJV1 Cor 14:2727 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. KJV The whole thing is corrupt from top to bottom and is in desperate need of a good clean sweep by our Lord Jesus Christ!!! What a time of great change the Second Advent shall be. In the Acts Scripture that the gentleman refers to, the words are "other tongues" not UNKNOWN tongues. I would bet dollars to donuts that this man is using one of the corrupted newer version Bibles (see: Adulterations in the Newer Bible Versions (NIV, NASB...); Proof that the King James Bible (KJV) is the True Word of God ). Below is the "tongues" of the book of Acts, and as you can see there was nothing "unknown" about it!Acts 2:44 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (KJV)other: Greek word #2087 heteros = other or different: Tongues: Greek word #1100 glossa = a language (specially, one naturally unacquired) When they spoke this tongue, everybody understood it, the Scripture lists 18 different languages that understood it AT ONCE! Not like today's so-called tongues where only another possessed person can think that he understands it. The Pentecostal Day (Acts ch. 2) tongues were heard and understood by all languages:Acts 2:4-114 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (KJV) What is happening in the churches today is so far removed from the Scriptures that one could only suspect demonic influences. Stop babbling, it is not of God! Also, let us clear-up one more obstacle in this matter. The "Tongue Talker" teachers point to the below Scripture as a justification for their own so-called Tongue Talking in their churches. The Scripture below follows right after the above verse, so that you know that it is the exact same subject being spoken of:Acts 2:12-1612 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (KJV) What the Tongues preachers/teachers will tell you is that some men called the speakers "drunk" because they could not understand what they were saying. Based on this, the Tongue teachers assert that when they speak in their babble, which people can't understand, it is the same as in the above Acts Scripture, because, as they arrantly suppose, nobody could understand it. Not so! First of all we just read that many DID understand, in (all) their own (different) languages even; but that some could not understand. So confused were those who could not understand that they accused the speakers of being so drunk that they couldn't even form words recognizable to the human ear. Paul assures them that the men are not at all drunk. So in our above Scripture in verse 12 we saw that many did hear, but in verse 13 we saw that some did not hear:Acts 2:12-1312 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. Who then are these, whom could not hear (could not understand the speech)? They were unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot hear with understanding the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit, which interprets all things (for the Christian ONLY), is not present in the unbeliever. That is why these certain men, those who were mocking, could not understand what the Holy Spirit was saying through the Inspired speakers. Jesus told us of these in another place:John 8:4343 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. (KJV) To understand Jesus is to understand the Holy Spirit, for they are One with the Father (1st John 5:7). Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice:John 10:26-42 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.30 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. (KJV) So who were those who could not hear the Holy Spirit? It was those same who would instigate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ:John 8:42-59 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. (KJV) Well the spirit of Pharisee'ism is alive and well in many of the compromised & spiritually corrupted Judeo-Christian churches. There is really no such thing as Judeo-Christian, it is new wine in an old (actually another) wineskin that shall burst. It is satan's dilution of the Christian faith. Are you offended that I said that satan is diluting the Christian churches in these times? Here, look at what satan has some of them doing their own so-called Christian churches today. In the below testimonies you can see the very real influence of evil spirits in some mainstream Christian denominations. Below are a couple of testimonies of Christians who came out of the delusion of the "Tongues Talking" denomination churches. First is a letter from a woman, whom we will leave unnamed, regarding her experience with the demonic Talking in Tongues, Slain in the Spirit, and Toronto Blessing experiences. (emphasis is added (bold italics) to highlight certain statements made in the below):"I have been to some really good churches where everyone was very friendly and nice but I ended up leaving these churches because these people were falling down, making animal noises, and in my opinion they were acting almost as if they were under a spell of some sort. I have never felt particularly comfortable with the practice.One day some of the ladies invited me to fellowship at one of their houses and I was a fairly new christian at the time and not well grounded in the word. After dinner, these same woman invited me to pray with them and they all started to pray in tongues which was alright but then they started to make animal noises and fall all over the place. I was immediatly feeling a sense that something was very wrong.Later, at the table, we were all talking and one woman said that when they were doing all this, she got a feeling that she should stop doing it. Guess what, she blamed it on the devil but I really felt deep down inside that it was the Holy Spirit convicting here for doing the practice.One night in a separate incident, One of the pastors at this same church laid hands on me and prayed over me with the elder. All of a sudden the Pastor pushed me down and as I laid on the floor, I looked up at him, and while he was praying in tongues, he looked at me with the glassiest and craziest look I have ever seen before. It sent a cold chill up my back and I knew something was definently wrong. Many times at church, this same pastor would stare at me with the same hypnotic glance to the point that I had to turn my head. He acted very strange and very odd when I would see him in the basement of the church. He was nice and everything but there was definently something very eerie about his presence.When I quit that church to go to another, I was told that I was being led by Satan to go to another church and that their church was the only one where I lived that was teaching the truth.I was also told that if I left that church, I would fall into apostacy so I never went back again." Next is a letter from a young mother, whom we will leave unnamed, regarding her experience with the demonic Talking in Tongues and Toronto Blessing experiences:"I have had the shaking thing [Ed note: this is the so-called: "Shaking in the Spirit] happen to me at the Pentecostal church I attend but I am wondering what it is. I do not believe it is of God. It gives me the willies.One time in fact I went to a fellowship at one of the woman who attend my church's house and two other ladies went also. I also had my kids and these women started to make animal noises and howl right in front of my kids. I played a long as I was just a babe myself, however I felt something really wrong in the spirit about this. As I have said before, I have turned from allot of the gifts due to this. I have even been trying not to speak in tongues although I fight the tongues thing. I still feel led to pray in tongues but part of me hates praying in them after what I have seen in the Pentecostal/Charismatic church." Bottom line: Talking in Tongues is not of the Holy Spirit, but is rather of evil spirits deceiving the speaker.In His Service: Nick Goggin Editor; www.biblestudysite.comWATCHMEN BIBLE STUDY GROUP
     
  8. RND

    RND New Member

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    (kriss;13145)
    Bottom line: Talking in Tongues is not of the Holy Spirit, but is rather of evil spirits deceiving the speaker.
    Well Kriss, we have at least found something of which we are in agreement!
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (RND;13154)
    Well Kriss, we have at least found something of which we are in agreement!
    We agree fine RND till you start straying from scripture to your men's interpretations:)
     
  10. RND

    RND New Member

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    We agree fine RND till you start straying from scripture to your men's interpretations:)
    Well, I tried.
     
  11. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Keep searching RND, when you get filled with the HolyGhost, you'll begin to speak in unknown tongues and you know what you want even being arguing this point any more. because you will realize how important this gift is to have!Go ahead and just try to explain it away, one day you'll have to answer to God why you did'nt recieve His free gift too you, that would help you to walk this incredibly difficult life. In stead You call His gift vain babbling!Be careful you may just offend the Holy One!
     
  12. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Kriss, I would be very careful if I were you calling a gift from God evil.What you have said is a lie, there is no italized any thing in the KJV bible when it come to the word un-known tongues.This is just another way that you are denying the truth.Just take it right out of the Bible. That's funny because you claim that you believe all of the Word of God but when it comes to His gifts you just try to explain them away just because a few people had a bad experience from people that mis used their positions. but there are goof balls every where that take every thing to the extremes.But don't label these few on the whole bunch, That are honest God fearing Christians!I'm personally very offended by you calling The sweet precious Gift of the HolyGhost the work of the devil!
     
  13. RND

    RND New Member

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    Keep searching RND, when you get filled with the HolyGhost, you'll begin to speak in unknown tongues and you know what you want even being arguing this point any more. because you will realize how important this gift is to have!
    How is it possible for you to assume that 1) I'm not filled with the Holy Spirit, 2) That I already don't speak in tongues, and 3) Where is 'speaking in tongues' considered a spiritual gift?Wow, you sure are presumtuous Jody.
    Go ahead and just try to explain it away, one day you'll have to answer to God why you did'nt recieve His free gift too you, that would help you to walk this incredibly difficult life. In stead You call His gift vain babbling!
    And yet you elevate yourself to the position of judge? How un-3rd commandment of you!
    Be careful you may just offend the Holy One!
    By speaking truth? Please, parlor tricks, howling and barking at the moon have nothing to do with salvation or the Holy Spirit Jody.
     
  14. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    Well, I assumed that you did'nt speak in tongues, because everyone that I've met that was a Seventh day Adventist, doesn't believe in such gifts, because I know that they don't teach it or practise it in there services.Also people that try to explain it away, usually have never encountered the Holy Ghost in a real experience.I was'nt judging you I was saying becareful not too offend the Holy One!He does take His gifts very seriously!
     
  15. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    (jodycour;13208)
    there is no italized any thing in the KJV bible when it come to the word un-known tongues.
    I think she had in mind places like:1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.I just checked, and the link creator takes you to a site that doesn't list these as italics. But they are in my KJV. I don't get it.
     
  16. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Pull out a Green's interlinear or any other manuscript and you'll see what is meant. Unknown is purely an adjective added to tongue. Any good sutdy Bible will italicize this if it's worth a salt.http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...2&version=KJV#2The above link illustrates what she is talking about. Unknown is not what was originally said. It was merely tongue, and this is referring to not some magical language of clicks or funny grunts but a certain very specific "language" that there is easily understood. There will be no scoffers or those with looks of puzzlement on their faces when this is spoken. It's not some game.
     
  17. RND

    RND New Member

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    Well, I assumed that you did'nt speak in tongues, because everyone that I've met that was a Seventh day Adventist, doesn't believe in such gifts, because I know that they don't teach it or practise it in there services.
    Yes Jody, I speak some Spanish and have an understanding of the language. If you are suggesting that the SDA worship is some how less or less than adequate than other churches, such as Pentecostals, because we don't raise our hands and speak gibberish the way others do you have some nerve attempting to place your knowledge and your belief above that of what we consider honorable and acceptable to the Lord.Babbling is not a sign of anything other than that, babble.
    Also people that try to explain it away, usually have never encountered the Holy Ghost in a real experience.
    And you're the judge of such matters? Who are you to judge another man's servant?
    I was'nt judging you I was saying becareful not too offend the Holy One! He does take His gifts very seriously!
    Um, yes you were judging me and your language is offensive not to me, but to God. You violated the 3rd commandment by placing yourself in the position of God by 'warning' me that, in essence, I'll get mine one of these days.You're language and attitude are completely unchristian and you should be ashamed of yourself.
     
  18. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    I wasn't saying that you were going to get yours! I was saying that you will have to stand in judgement for every idle word that you say, and I do believe that, that was Jesus speaking.You also quoted earlier that when paul was saying that He spoke in tongues more than you all, that it was because He spoke in somany different languages.Even if the word un-known wasn't in the original manuscript, this had to have meant more than just simple language, because at the beginning of Paul's teaching He's telling them to not be too caught up in the spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues. Then later he says he wished that they all would speak in tongues. If He was simply meaning languages, why would He first tell them to chill with these gifts, then later tell them that He wished that they all spoke in tongues? This would'nt make any since, plus why would he wish that they all spoke in different languages?No He is speaking about the gift of Praying in the unknown tongues!Why don't you just rip out the whole tongue issue from the Bible to fit what you believe?
     
  19. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    I Corth.14:2For he that speaketh in an un-known tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.How do you explain away this scripture if He's talking about known languages?when you are speaking in an un-known tongue here it says that you are speaking unto God.It say's clearly here that no man understands him!
     
  20. jodycour

    jodycour New Member

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    What about this scripture?I Corth.14:39Werefore, brethren, covet prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues!This is not just babling!
     
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